Silmeran:

MKP leaders are not mental health professionals qualified to offer therapy.

Would-be therapists manipulating people without their fully informed consent in advance to download some worldview sounds a bit like George Orwell's "Big Brother."

Apparently, you have reached a point where you can rationaize almost anything.

But do the ends really justify the means?

I won't deny that it sounds that way. But I get the impression you are not interested in being unbiased about the MKP. Its a lot like talking to someone who actually believes everyone who is not a Christian is going to Hell.

Yes, I have read the whole thread, and there are a lot of things the MKP does that is very cultish. But at the same time, I think it offers a lot of good to many men.

And no, they are not mental health professionals. But neither are friends or pastors, or teachers. And they all teach different worldviews. Its like teaching someone who was born and raised as White Supremacist that all people are equal and multi-culturalism is a good thing. You have to break down the world they believe in before getting anything through. Which is why I can understand your fear of the MKP and other LGATs.

But the problem is, I am getting the impression you already have decided that the MKP is a cult and harmful. And its really hard to talk to anyone when they already have there mind made up.

I don't consider MKP a "cult" per se, but it does appear "cultish" as you say and LGATs are deeply problematic.

See [www.culteducation.com]

See [www.culteducation.com]

You could learn a lot from this research.

Breaking people down?

If that's what MKP wants to do they should fully inform participants first without all the secrecy and manipulation.

Yeah, i will, I can definitely see where it is "cultish." I will look into it more. I wouldn't recommend the weekend for all men, but it does do good work. I remember going to Christian camp when i was young, the only difference now, is that I am an adult and can make my own decisions. When I was young, they would have tried to convince me to stay even if I didn't like it, just like MKP does, the only difference, is I chose to go, and I chose to stay and go through whole weekend, then I chose to try the I-groups. And finally I chose to leave the I-groups and MKP because i wasn't getting much out of it anymore.

And finally, I think that it really does depend on where you attend the NWTA and who runs the MKP for that state and area. I never had any problems, but that may just be because of who I met and where I was.

Lastly, yes, they break you down. It isn't pretty, but people do it all the time. Its the intention behind it. And its not to break you down so they can supplant what you believe, I was never told that I now had to listen and do whatever the MKP said like a mindless drone. I was always asked for permission and anytime I was uncomfortable or not ready I said stop, and then we could talk about it.

Mr moderator, i am interested in what credentials you hold and purposes you have behind this website, and if you would ever consider actually attending an NWTA, I can't think of anyone who would oppose explaining why each step of the weekend is the way it is. And the purposes behind it.

My previous post essentially covered this.

Your argument seems to be that if other groups do this why not MKP?

Please understand that "two wrongs don't make a right."

Breaking people down the way you admit MKP does, is not right. And the "intention behind it" doesn't make it right.

No, the ends don't justify the means.

I have no personal interest in MKP.

Oops, made a mistake on quote, and how my post interacted with it.

Here is corrected post.

Quote
Silmeran
Lastly, yes, they break you down. It isn't pretty, but people do it all the time. Its the intention behind it. And its not to break you down so they can supplant what you believe, I was never told that I now had to listen and do whatever the MKP said like a mindless drone. I was always asked for permission and anytime I was uncomfortable or not ready I said stop, and then we could talk about it.

Do you even realize how you are contradiciting youself here?

A breakdown process is never done without having something replaced in it. It is not possible to seperate the two.

Every person functions on a belief system, and it is in the fabric of who we are.

when a belief system is broken down as this is what this breakdown is about. A new belief system is formed automatically.

Within a context of a controlled environment in which these type of seminars are held and are highly controlled. The new beliefs that are embedded automatically are embedded the same as things such as military boot camp. I am an ex Marine, and know what I am talking about here. I am also an ex-LGAT indoctrinated person also (Klemmer & Associates).

So, please face the reality of how you can't have a breakdown without having a new belief established. Which in these seminar settings are engineered specifically as the excercises are performed, and the mechanics of these seminars are done.

It is called mindcontrol, and being brainwashed. Only it is done with many not being aware of it being done. Such as your case.

I forgot to add, I let myself be brainwashed also in an LGAT. I am not wanting to attack here.

I am getting this in hindsight as I have been blown out the back side of an LGAT by the destruction it brought in my life.

This is what is driving my passion to help steer as many people from buying into any and all LGAT's out there.

Hello,

I had recently gone on a weekend, and I have started attending an i-Group. There were a couple of things that bothered me on the weekend, but it was more the group's "New Agey" beliefs. Still, I suspended judgement and when that "physics/philosophy/visionary" speech was repeated, (3x times no less), I just rolled my eyes. Still, I think there was some benefit in the experience. I feel a little less rigid and more willing to accept things as they are.

After the weekend, what bothered me was all the group think and speak. True, they don't specifically say , "This is what you should believe", but they introduce these concepts of "spirits of the four directions", and other Native American beliefs infused with some modern New Age stuff. I think that stuff is a bunch of garbage, but within the group, that would be difficult to say.

What bothers me a lot too, is all the time and energy that it seems that they want from one. I get a bunch of emails now, with the greetings of "Brothers" or "Blessed Brothers" and the like. The other initiates are starting to model this sort of thing.

Anybody leave MKP after a long time in it?

In addition, for those that may want to know, it was my psychologist that first recommended the group. I don't know if he is a member or not, but he did offer it as a suggestion. His recommendation heightened the credibility of the group in my eyes.

I think that the basic idea of learning through experience does have some merit, but the only problem is that they don't really tell you what ideology they are espousing first. They put on airs that the group is for all men with all sorts of beliefs, as if to say that there was no set ideology, but indeed there is.

The more I read about this group, the scarier they are to me. Their methods are set up to put the person off balance, questioning their very core of beliefs and made to feel they are wrong if they do not follow the groupthink. And it's done in a very subtle way so that a person doesn't see it coming, imo.

I think any psychiatrist who would recommend this group either doesn't know much about them, or thinks their methods "justify the ends"...either way, this psychiatrist is dangerous because of the trust the client puts into them and their opinions.