As a member of the Mankind Project, and not as a leader, I only know what I saw and what I did. Much of what I saw posted here was alien to my experience. What was familiar lacked fair context.

I have had time to evaluate my experiences, using the tools that I acquired in academia and in my own wide-ranging readings. Coercive cults concern me. The Mankind Project as I have experienced it is not a cult. My memories are positive, and I acquired a couple of unexpected skills in working with others. And eventually I discovered faults in myself that I might not have found otherwise.

Unless someone has a specific comment or question, I'm done here.

John S. Fontenot

There have been very serious complaints posted here about the Mankind Project.

Apparently others have quite a different "experience" and view the group is a less positive light.

The manual used by the group appears to be quite manipulative and typical of many mass marathon training groups.

I might be able to address a specific complaint. Don't know if this helps, but I did meet one person who was hostile to MKP, and all I can figure out about him is that he heard about MKP having intimidating authority figures. That might have pushed all his buttons, since his history involved years of lack of discipline.

Please pick one problematical item for me. I'll see if I can make sense of it.

If you've read analyses of primitive initiation rites, you know that fear and pain have a bonding effect which gave a youth a sense of identity that we lack in our individualistic society. I'm very much an individual, but I've gained serious respect for both community and for that brief and wonderful state of mind resulting from slowing down the brain waves until you are at the alpha/theta boundary. This happens in drumming circles and elsewhere, and it has been shown to boost one's immune system -- and I can cite a medical source for that.

Lewis and Clark witnessed Indian girls putting their arms into boiling water long enough to say "It's cold, it's cold." They did this in order to earn membership in a kind of sorority. An Australian aborigine had no choice, and if he didn't die of the wound the elders inflicted on him before they reopened their own old wounds, he returned to his band a proud boy-man who was forever finished with his mother. That had survival value in ways I have barely hinted at.

A high school marching band -- elements there of authority and pain and community.

College fraternity initiations sometimes result in death -- because there are no elders around to establish safe ground rules.

Beginning to enjoy this. Hope you are too.

Read this thread there are many specific complaints.

Please understand that attempting to blame those hurt by MKP for their own injuries in some way is not a meaningful response.

Sol37:

What does MKP have to do with high school marching bands exactly?

This is a typical form of rebuttal used by MKPers. Comparing MKP to other more 'mainstream' organizations as way of attempting to deflect or transfer the blame off of MKP.

I have yet to hear reports of a high school marching band that requires their members to:
submit personal items,
strip naked and dance together,
take cold showers in front of eachother,
eat a protein restricted diet, etc.

To compare MKP to that is just another attempt at smoke and mirrors.

I'm glad you're asking specific questions.

First I wish to respond to an uninformed and judgmental comment you made earlier about the lack of professional guidance at MKP. At the weekend event I did not have the occasion, or think, to ask how many leaders were in the mental health field. But later I found that one important leader was a therapist in New Orleans who later led an Integration Group. Some years earlier when I attended a similar weekend as part of the Men's Movement, I found out that close to one third of the participants, not the leaders, were therapists working on their own issues. In fact, I attended that event with a personal friend who is a therapist. The media had a marvelous time making fun of the men's movement, as you might know. I understand why. Anything new is fair game as far as the press is concerned, and has value only if it can survive scrutiny and ridicule. I'm happy to report that in one form or another, the Men's Movement is alive and well. That doesn't mean that all groups are perfect. Some may be off center by my standards.

Now to your first item, about submitting personal items (during the weekend).

Those in charge made note that no illegal drugs were found among my possessions. (You can see the point?) Regarding medication, I was asked if mine were really necessary. I decided I could do without my over-the-counter nose drops. (That was my decision.)

From a broader perspective, as explained to me later by an ex-nun who prepares people for vision quests, Indian style, part of the process involves "removing the props" that people have so that they are less insulated from the experience they seek. And those who go on vision quests do seek an authentic spiritual experience preceded by fasting and the very difficult experience of enduring a sweat lodge ceremony. If you want to complain about something, you need to ask about that. The MKP sweat lodge, by comparision, was a mild.

I'll be happy to address the other items if you wish. But first, your response to this.

Wow

Wow" is a response but not helpful. I would like to learn something about your standards. Perhaps, if you're going to perform a valuable service, you need to call in the help of a small group of people qualified to investigate and evaluate some of the complaints you get?

I'm not even sure I know how you define cult.

sorry, but I wasn't trying to be helpful, I was listening to my feelings and they kept saying "wow"

Don't know what your feelings/thoughts were. Don't have a sense of a real person at your end. I've been straight with you. Be straight with me. We can talk via personal email if you wish.