Mankind project
Posted by:
ginah
()
Date: October 05, 2006 11:02PM
Quote
I_have_somthing_to_say
I Have been a big part of mkp for 6 years now and I too have never been pressured to do anything I did not want to. All anyone ever has to say is NO. I have read this thread from start to finish and I see a man who wants to grow but his mom and dad will not let him. I have heard this mother say over and over that poeple keep talking to her son about doing this weekend. but I never heard her say once that her son did not have interest. I ask does he. I have herd her say I do not want him to do this but I wonder what he has to say..... as far as all your rumors and fears I ask you this. Can you step past your fear and let others live? I am open to all questions or comments....
Can you step past your close mindedness and look at the "reality", not your crazy ideas that you create your own reality, of what MKP truly is? Probably not.
If you have read all the info on this site, and the pain that has been caused, and the links on this site, and still think MKP is such a great thing, you need true therapy! True therapy with trained licenced counselors/therapist/psychiatrist.
If you read this womans worries about her son, and have really read all the threads, then you have also read the pain caused her by her husband attending NWTA, then you would understand his parents unwillingness to "pay" for their son to go.
MKP is unethical in their continuing to "push" this young man to attend when he already has enough confusion and pain in his life. MKP has no moral right to lay claim to this young mans life, and to tell him his parents are "bad" to not pay for him to go. MKP is already starting the dismantling of his belief of his families love before he even goes by saying things negative about his parents to him. Shame, Shame, Shame on MKP.
MKP has no ethics in regards to what and who they truly are and with their recruiting techniques, as well as the enforcing of secrets and lies into the lives of families. Do you truly think that someone who is in a time of their life when they are confused and hurting and searching for something really has the ability to say NO to things that they don't understand can be damaging to them and their loved ones?
MKP never really gives the choice to say NO, as the techniques used during NWTA and I-Group activities are techniques that create an illusion for the men attending.
The "gentlemen" in MKP who come onto this site "preach" about how great MKP is with a closed mind and no thought to how this LGAT cult type group harms families; are people who have been "sucked" into the beliefs that MKP creates through mind altering techniques.
The moderator once said something like the following: If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like and duck, if it looks like a duck, it just might be a duck. MKP is a duck!! MKP is an LGAT cult type group that creates harm between men and their loved ones. I make that statement through my experiences of my husband attending NWTA.
I feel sorry for these men, they have been duped, and do not see that, or can't admit that they have been duped. How sad!!!!
I will say again as I have said before, I would like to speak to the wives of men who have been in MKP for several years and still believe MKP is healthy. I don't think that will ever happen as men in MKP keep secrets from their wives and would never want them to truly know what goes on at MKP. That would be to honest with the people they claim to love.
Mankind project
Posted by:
ginah
()
Date: October 05, 2006 11:56PM
My following explanations about my MKP experience ARE emotional in many many places. I think that is the only way you will be able to understand my anger and pain and disgust in regards to MKP. Disgust, because of the positive claims they make, claims that I feel are worthy goals for a person to have in their lives, which have obviously IMO been twisted and are the complete opposite of my experience as the wife of a man who went to NWTA. And I feel I need to get this out.
I am also ssooo sorry this is so long. I don’t think I have put this much of my story down for anyone, and, this is not all the horrible things I have lived through for at least two months DAILY, post-MKP.
I would also like to say that I feel MKP OWES ME FOR THE PAIN and SUFFERING THAT THEY HAVE CREATED IN MY LIFE!!!!!
If I could, I would take them to court and tell the whole friggin world how they create pain in the lives of people and then claim, “We didn’t do it, it’s their fault, they create their own reality, or, they are just not ready”.
Give me a break, everyone knows that to a point people create their own reality, but, everyone also knows that when traumatic events happen to us in life, THEY HAPPEN.
Please, pro-MKPers, tell men who have been to war (not MKP men), and have had traumatic events happen to them, that they make their own reality. Oh, hey, my friend was just blown to bits, oh well, he/she’s replaceable (you will understand that statement later). Let us see what kind of reaction you get.
As far as I am concerned, those men and women who are involved with this LGAT group, who are pro-MKP, and claim its virtues, IMHO are WEAK-minded people who cannot think for themselves, or are vulnerable people who have had that vulnerability taken advantage of.
I apologize if that sounds harsh. In writing this and working through my memories of what has happened to my life because of MKP, I find a simmering anger right beneath the surface of my civility. I have been caused GREAT harm, and have no legal recourse to the harm caused me by MKP.
I HAVE BEEN EMOTIONALLY RAPED by MKP!!!!!!
I don’t view this logically as harm caused me by my husband as I feel that the LGAT techniques etc changed who he truly is for a while; even to this day he is not the same. Actually, neither am I. This is not just my emotions on this, I have had friends make comments about the difference in my husband, and how they have been “staying away” from us because of that difference.
I blame MKP, not my husband. MKP lied to him, how can I blame him?
I have had men tell me that this is not the fault of MKP, that it is my husband’s fault. I disagree, if MKP was H-O-N-E-S-T beforehand, he might have not chosen to go!!!! If MKP was H-O-N-E-S-T beforehand, my husband could have made a knowledgeable informed decision as to if MKP was for us or not.
And to MKPers, I say US because as a married couple, what choices my husband makes in life affects me, and what choices I make in life affects him. As a married couple we are supposed to go through this life with each other, helping each other, supporting each other, loving each other, not as separate individuals who have no one to be accountable to except ourselves. MKP takes that accountability between couples and tells the man to give it to MKP. If in my life I ever get the chance, MKP will be held accountable to what they have done to me, my husband, my children and all the women and men out there who MKP has harmed. I will be the first to stand up in a court of law and tell the abuses heaped upon me by MKP.
Let me say that my husband and I have been together for over 20 years; we were high school sweethearts. I have loved my husband with enough power for all these years that I would die for him. I have always wanted his happiness, I might have forgotten that here or there in our lives as things happened, taken him for granted at times, but he has always been in my heart and no matter what happens to us, he always will.
I don’t know how many people in this world believe in such things, but I loved my husband the first time I saw him. I KNEW he was the one for me. He is my soul mate.
Before him, I laughed and snickered when I heard things like that and did not believe in “real” love much less love at first sight. Nor did I believe in soul mates. Things like that was the unreal romanticism of people who did not know what the real world was like. I believed that the opposite sex was for my use as I saw fit only.
Before I met my husband, I was a very angry, hateful person; I had lived such an abusive life, so that for me, love was horrifying and sick. Love meant, that someone beat the sh*t out of you, and then said “I love you”. Love meant that someone said mean nasty things to you, and then said “I love you”.
I looked into my husband’s eyes, and just “melted”. If that makes sense to anyone, it never really has to me; I have just accepted it.
I became a better person for knowing my husband. If anything were to ever happen to us as a couple, I would most likely spend the rest of my life mourning him.
Post-MKP I definitely went through times when I just KNEW my husband wanted to leave me, and I wanted to DIE when I felt that from him. I had times that I KNEW he didn’t leave me post-MKP because we have children, and I knew he did not want them growing up with a divorced family as he had. He swore when he was younger that he would never do anything like that to any children he might have. I have moments when I still suspect he still wants to leave me, and in these moments I feel my heart shriveling to dust.
My husband came home from his MKP weekend, so gung-ho it would have shocked you silly. I have NEVER seen his eyes so glazed and glassy-looking. I would have SWORN that he was high on something, but put it off to him being exhausted as he told me he did not get much sleep and then drove about five hours to get home. Also, his voice was so hoarse, he could barely talk.
I will say here, that the first night and next day he was home he was all smiles and grins and he would grab me and stare into my eyes like he has never done before. I liked that. So yes, if we had gone to the graduation at that point in time, I would only have had positive things to say about MKP, as I am sure most wives would have at that point.
If MKP wants HONEST opinions about the weekend they should do “graduation” six months after NWTA.
Though in truth IMO, MKP only wants honesty from their members to MKP. Actions speak louder than words, and the actions of MKP are not HONEST actions. They are unethical actions.
It was the fallout that made me search for the truth. It was when the weekend high started wearing off that I started seeing the truth of what MKP had done to him.
My true man, had been turned inside out, and from my perspective, the NWTA weekend DID NOT MAKE HIM A MAN. He was a true man before he went. MKP screwed him up!!!!
Part of what started my worries was the fact that my husband drove our new "used" car about 300 miles (closer to 400 I believe) to get to where the NWTA was. He promised to call me when he got there to let me know that he made it there safely. He left on a Friday noon, he never called. I didn't know anything until he got home about 2am on Sunday night. We had a mild argument over this.
MKP takes phones away don’t they, so how could he call me and tell me he made it safely? He did not know beforehand that this would happen; he did not think he needed to pull over and call me before he signed in!!!! But once there, well, we now know what happens at that point, a man is peer pressured and abused into “giving” all of his items to them for the weekend.
Also, my husband was told he needed to carpool as well as many others who have told their story. IMO this is a way for MKP to create a hardship for men to leave the NWTA.
My husband wanted to send MKP money every month. They had a big thing the last day about “tithing” (don’t know if that is what they called it) to MKP in regards to what men felt they got out of the weekend. My husband wanted to send them at least $100.00 a month even though the only thing we were not behind on was our vehicle payment. Even though there are many activities that our children would like to do, but cannot, like swimming lessons, horse-back riding lessons, karate or going to a movie ONE night, because WE CANNOT AFFORD IT.
He was so excited at the idea of sending MKP money. I could not understand it - this man, who to get him to spend 20 bucks, you had to rip it from his hands. He was all, “Well, we can pay part of this bill, and part of that one,” even though we were already doing this.
If MKP truly wants to be helpful to us we could use several thousand dollars to pay off our bills and to get health insurance for our children. Lies and secrets and unethical behavior is not helpful to us.
This was the first BIG fight we had about MKP. I disagreed with him. Ha, I disagreed. I, a mere female, had an OPINION. WE FOUGHT like crazy. NO WAY was I going to send MKP money, not knowing what the group was about yet. It was at this time that I began to have my suspicions, and this was one of the things that started my searching. It was soooooo unlike the man I had known for over half my life.
He suddenly had new beliefs about life, which in our 20+ years, he has never felt, believed, thought, or agreed with. One of those NEW beliefs was: if someone you love causes you pain, then you replace them.
I asked him: “Does that include your friends, parents, or your children, or me?” He would not answer, but finally one day he was mad and answered honestly, “Yes, it means ANYONE you love that causes you pain, you replace them. They are not worth your time!”
Pre-MKP my husband had been the type of man to move from one side of the country to the other to help take care of a family who had just had two major disasters in their lives and needed help. This new man would say, “Whatever, they are not worth it.”
(Sarcasm) I feel that is such a great wonderful way to keep relationships working, don’t you? I feel that is such a wonderful way to have lasting, caring, trusting, loving, intimate, enjoyable relationships, don’t you?
He came back thinking that secrets are okay, even though he knows how I feel about secrets because of my childhood, and promises we had made to each other. For me, secrets are dangerous, and I am NOT talking Christmas present secrets.
Also, if you teach your children that it is okay to keep secrets with each other, how do you teach them to live honest lives and to not sneak around lying to their parents and others? Children learn by example.
If it is okay for Dad to keep secrets from Mom, your children will learn to think, “Well, why can’t we keep secrets from people?”
And for you pro-MKPers, MKP does require secrets, not confidentiality. If you do not know the difference, look up secret, look up confidentiality; see/feel the difference in the explanations. Secret fits MKP. Confidentiality does NOT. Though from my experience MKPers create their own truth in their minds, and no matter what real truths are given to them, they can only see what the NWTA and I-Group has created in their minds. Instead of looking at the facts, they live with blinders on, and everyone else is just “not ready”.
My husband came back from NTWA thinking that things we have always shared with each other were no longer okay to share, that he should only share certain things with his “brothers”, even though, we have always shared EVERYTHING important with each other. And for you pro-MKP persons, I know this to be true.
We have spent too many years of our lives together, staying up till dawn talking, laughing, sharing with each other. We spent time in therapy together because we wanted to learn how to create a closer relationship. Now, after his weekend, that is no longer the truth.
For a MINOR example, he could only share with his “brothers” and not me, if he found another woman attractive, and supposedly I never shared this stuff with him. HELLO, my husband and I have FOR YEARS, pointed out men/women that we thought were attractive in some way or another to each other. Jeeze, I have specific memories of him pointing out women when we were out somewhere, or me pointing out men to him. And please do not take that statement the wrong way. It was a SHARING OF OUR THOUGHTS, and a silliness and trusting within our relationship.
Now, according to him post-NWTA, this never happened and never will? Excuse me? Where did his mind go? Supposedly this was not the way our relationship worked, supposedly it never had, and never would.
Also, he came back thinking that he had some abuses happen to him as a child. I know the things that did happen because we spoke of these things many years ago, and I accepted and loved him anyway. How could I not? He was a child. The abuses that happened were not his fault. Duh, my childhood was so much more filled with all kinds of abuses than his (not saying more painful, just more proliferate).
But you have to understand here, post-MKP he did not remember ever sharing these things with me at first. He was not telling me these things. We were “fighting” about sharing with each other, and he was telling me that there were certain things he could not share with me, only with his “brothers”. When I started telling him of the things he had shared with me years and years ago, he was in “shock” that I knew about them. After a while he finally “remembered”, sort of, sharing these instances with me. He then said to me that “other” things had happened that he never told me about, and realized during his NWTA weekend.
He “remembered” things during the weekend that I suspect, and am almost 100% positive NEVER HAPPENED.
He would not go into detail, and his eyes and face looked “spaced out” when he said something.
I am telling you guys, my husband and I have shared pretty much everything about each other, with each other. I know this because of who we were when we were younger, and the counseling we went through together, and the many many nights we have stayed up until dawn sharing with each other - sharing our hopes, our dreams, our sorrows.
Pre-MKP, I would have said that my husband and I knew just about every nook and cranny about each other’s souls.
If you knew my husband you would understand the “shock” I am in because of these things. My husband is, in general, a VERY stable person; he used to calm me down when my family would start in on abusing me again. He would defend me and protect me from them. Post-MKP - I would say the first month or so - he would just stand there with this “spacey” look on his face and let it happen.
He went to MKP because of several reasons. One was his Dad had died and he was having problems with his family. Another was that my family has sooo many problems and they are always trying to drag us into it. Also, he went because we had been fighting. Who doesn’t after 20+ years? And it does not, in general, mean the end of the world.
He was feeling depressed and vulnerable; the man that recruited him made it sound as if it would be helpful to him. The man (snort) that recruited my husband took advantage of my husband’s vulnerability. MKP men must surely be taught how to see this within a person; he had only met my husband twice, picked up on this, and started in on MKP to him.
To this day, I feel my husband has not been honest with me about many things in regards to MKP, his weekend, and the I-groups he attended. I suspect that he still keeps things from me, and maybe always will now.
I am trying to learn to cope with this. It is painful, knowing how close we were pre-MKP, to now feeling this closeness gone. I have an emptiness within me now, that at moments create an anxiety within me that makes me “try too hard” with my husband, and I see his irritation at me over it. I have this huge sadness, feeling a connection that I have had with my husband for so long, just GONE, in one friggin weekend, GONE.
MKPers, tell me how stealing that from our relationship creates a better husband?
I find myself reaching out, searching for that connection, and finding cold, dark, empty space.
You have to realize that I had trusted my husband about this group. I was so busy with our children, and the things I am involved in with them, that I had not looked into MKP. I had no “intuition” or “gut feelings” then about MKP. I was even excited for my husband, that he would have a group of men to hang out with. So I have to take responsibility for my part in this as well. If I had been more vigilant and researched this group, I would have been able to give him info about the group before he went. Having knowledge beforehand most likely would have saved us this pain that MKP has created. Knowledge equals power; MKP does not give knowledge as, IMO they do not want potential recruits to have the power of knowledge.
And yes pro MKPers, MKP created the problems we are now having!!!!
It was about two days or so after he got back that I hit the Internet and started researching MKP as I had started seeing such horrible things in my husband’s personality, and I was scared.
Also, before I get further into my story, I want to say that as time passed post-MKP, I started finding all kinds of things that my husband was “keeping secret” from me. Pre-MKP, this was not so. These things went against a promise made between us years before, at my husband’s request.
The fact that he had gone to an MKP meeting before his NWTA weekend and never told me about it was one of those things. He kept SWEARING I knew all about it, that he had told me. Keep reading and you will understand my memory better
I found out that my husband had taken a personal letter that I had written to him to share with MKP. Knowing full well that the letter was between him and I, he took my trust, and stomped it into the dust, as HE had come to me several years earlier and requested of me that what happens within our relationship stays within our relationship (no speaking with girlfriends for me), and that anything that affected US was to be discussed between US. Choices were to be agreed upon by the BOTH of us.
He did not discuss going to this weekend with me. He did not tell me about it until a week or two before the weekend. He did not discuss it with me. He did not tell me when it was. He sent out an email to his Mom, his brother, his step-Mom, and then me. I felt ??used??, I felt ??disrespected??, I am not sure of the exact word.
I know if I had broken this promise to my husband as my husband did to me, he would have been very hurt. Post-MKP, he could not understand my “pain” over him breaking our promise and sharing something personal that I had written to him with others.
I do want to say that he claims that he ended up not sharing this information with MKP. I did find the letter within his MKP paperwork. I honestly do not know whether my husband shared this info or not, but I KNOW he planned on it.
My husband brought this up at his weekend, in regards to talking to me about his weekend and he was told “NO”. (He told me this) So, MKP told my husband to ignore a previous promise he had made to me.
In other words, they knowingly and purposefully came between my husband and I.
MKP blames my husband for this as he “agreed” to confidentiality before the weekend, and supposedly he should not have done this. MKP does not give enough information beforehand for men to make KNOWLEDGEABLE INFORMED decisions. As far as I am concerned, this is the fault and tactics of MKP. I will not hold my husband responsible for the unethical techniques that MKP uses. This is a form of ABUSE OF INTIMACY: Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents etc are broken or seriously hampered. This is a form of we are right and you are wrong. This is a form of taking responsibility that MKP owns and forcing that responsibility back onto someone else. I am right and you are wrong syndrome.
I am not in MKP or Woman Within so I am not “good enough” to have promises made to me by my husband kept. He did not say they said that. But, with all the spouting MKP does about honesty, integrity etc., that is the only way I know to take the fact that my husband was told he could not talk to me about his weekend.
My husband made a promise to me. MKP told him it was not important.
I knew nothing until he walked in the door three days later. I spent three days - as I had no way to get hold of my husband - worrying about him. My husband came home from his MKP weekend in the early hours of the morning. Within the next day - yes, that quickly - he was "pushing" very hard for me to go to Woman Within, even though he knew that I am a person who "hypnotizes" incredibly easily, that I can do this to myself and "relive" past experiences as if I were there again. LITERALLY....(Just writing this and remembering the details enough to put it down for you guys is bringing tears to my eyes, making my heart pound, and I have to fight “reliving” it to make it “just a memory”.) Not just sort of there, and not just “remembering” something that happened, but “hearing, feeling, smelling, touching” what happened.
I worked with a therapist years ago in regards to some childhood traumas. She tried to hypnotize me and it blew back in her face as I was immediately - and I mean within the first couple minutes of her starting - slammed into the traumatizing situation. I could not "come out" of it easily and spent the next few days in "terror" again, reliving the memories. She spent an hour calming me down. I then spent somewhere around an hour just sitting in my car trying to be calm enough to drive.
I do not remember what she called this. She did have a term for it, something to do with my memory, which is very very good in regards to traumatizing situations that I have lived through. She told me that I should NEVER be in a situation that could do this to me again without a professional that was trained and had many years of experience, as even she, who was very experienced, had a hard time working with me that day. She explained to me that my memory (things that happen to me, that I live through) is so good that I don’t have to be “fully” hypnotized to “relive” a memory and that sometimes, just a suggestion, smell, texture, word, can even “pull” me into a traumatizing memory. I finally understood why I could be walking in a grocery store etc, hear, smell etc something and have previous traumatic experiences try to slam down on me. It has taken me many years to “control” this fact of my mind. My therapist at the time told me she had only run into one other person in all her years who was similar to me in regards to memory.
My husband was aware of this about me, but showed no concern over my "safety" in going to Woman Within at first. He was CONVINCED that Woman Within would “change my life” for the better. Just like MKP has changed his life for the better? He just kept saying that "it was the only way that I would understand what he had gone through".
IMHO, it was really the only way that I would become as "brainwashed" as him and believe the "new" things that MKP enforced upon his psyche with unethical techniques and dishonesty.
It took me quite a while to get him to "see the error" of me going to Woman Within. For a long time, the feeling I felt from him was that he saw me as “less” of a person and “not good enough” for Woman Within, and so “not good enough” for him.
Pre-MKP he was concerned about this aspect of me, and had respect for me, that my mind could remember things so well. My husband tells me now that he did not remember this aspect of my mind. That he had “forgotten” this bit of information about me.
The wife of the “man” that recruited my husband talked with me. She spent three hours on the phone trying to convince me how wonderful it was, and how soooo it is not a cult, but no reasons why they were not a cult. Just, “Oh, this is not a cult”. And she went on about how Woman Within is soooo nurturing and not at all like the men’s weekend.
I did some research and found an article from a journalist who went to the weekend under cover. It is very much like MKP in the LGAT, Jungian and Gestalt therapy that is used.
So what if they actually cook for you, soooo much more nurturing, right? My husband used to cook for me, I find that more nurturing than a bunch of naked wailing women that are strangers.
And for you pro-MKPers I DON’T HAVE TO EXPERIENCE IT TO KNOW THAT IS HOW I FEEL.
I truly feel that if I had given into my husband and gone to Woman Within that I would be one of those coming home and committing suicide.
And, if this would have taken place, I am sure that instead of taking responsibility for their use of dangerous techniques, the blame would have been put onto me by MKP and Woman Within.
My experience with my therapist years ago showed me that for me to be hypnotized (in any form), is dangerous to me, as my "mind" pulls me into directions that even my therapist did not want me to go. The experiences that I have can not be controlled by the hypnotist, as with most people.
I have not talked about this, but it is very heartbreaking to me, that my husband kept pushing me to do this. It was like he could not even see the reality of what it could do to me. He was “convinced”, “brainwashed”, that he TRULY believed, this was the best thing for me. He finally told me after we fought and fought about it that yes, it was “encouraged” during the weekend for men who had wives and girlfriends to get them to go to Woman Within, that this was the ONLY, I will say again, O-N-L-Y way that the women in their lives could truly love and understand them, that now, only their brothers truly understood them and loved them.
How is that a reality when I have known my husband for over half my life?
How could a group of ****** understand my love better than I?
My heart still aches over the fact that this MKP weekend took away from my husband his concern, compassion and love for me. And have no doubt, for a long time this was my reality. And no, I did not create this reality, MKP did. The man that I had trusted with my heart, was no longer the same man, the man I had trusted with my heart, was too angry with me to find any love within him for me.
And yes, to all pro MKPers who want to slam my reality, MY HUSBAND WAS A DIFFERENT PERSON WHEN HE CAME HOME AND IT WAS NOT A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!
MY HUSBAND CAME HOME NOT HIMSELF, NOT A HEALTHY PERSON.
MY HUSBAND CAME HOME ???? MENTALLY SICK!!!!!!
Pre-MKP he would NEVER NEVER NEVER have requested and pushed me to do something that he KNEW would be dangerous to me.
I sent an email to Woman Within to see what their response would be. They never admitted to the techniques being used, and, of COURSE they could help me and I would be safe???…
Yeah, right!! So, MKP, tell me again how well people are screened for “problems”. Tell me that if something is too intense for some that MKP and Woman Within turns people away.
I HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF JUST THE OPPOSITE!!
I think that all that my husband and I have gone through for a couple months post-NWTA is why I am having a hard time with this MKP situation, even now.
Sadly, I feel, that MKP has changed my husband and I forever.
I am trying harder with my husband. I feel he is trying harder as well, and things ARE better than they were those first couple months.
My innocence is gone though.
My simple trust of my husband and his love for me is gone.
I feel I will never have that unconscious KNOWING that my husband loves me and cares for me again.
I am afraid that I will always “suspect”. How friggin SAD!!!!
My husband and I are doing better, but I still have the fear that was created by my husband’s post-MKP weekend.
I actually went through a grieving period afterwards, as I could see my husband’s body standing in front of me, hear his voice speaking to me, but the man I loved was not in that body any longer.
I ended up having to go back into therapy for a few weeks. I was told to “start saving money”, as from what they had seen with groups like this, divorce was very high. They were very concerned about my children and I, they were very concerned about my husband and wanted him to come in for counseling. (He has not to this day) My husband’s comment to this was that they did not like the “competition”. My comment was; that as trained, licensed therapist they did not like people who were not trained using the types of therapy and techniques on people that MKP uses, they considered it unethical and dangerous. Trained therapists did not consider NWTA “educational”, they considered MKP and NWTA dangerous to people's well-being.
MKPers, I gave all the info I have about MKP to my therapist, they did not make an uninformed decision about MKP.
For weeks, all I could do was cry.
My husband became verbally abusive to me and threatened to hit me. He has NEVER in our long relationship done this to me (or to anybody; he had always been a gentle, caring man).
He has always known what my childhood was like and has never in our relationship done anything that would scare me like post MKP. The night he threatened to hit me, he was screaming at me to “shut the f*ck up, and do as he said or get the f*ck out, and that he wanted to f*cking hit me, that I was stupid and f*ucked up in the brain, and on and on”. (Please excuse the language, These were his exact words to me) He was close enough to me that I could “feel” the anger emanating off his body. I could feel the spit flying from his mouth and landing on me as he screamed at me. I was slammed back into my childhood traumas, my vision went all haywire, I got the sweats and became very dizzy.
I started crying in huge hiccupping gasps, which caused him to yell at me to “f*cking stop the goddamn crying that I was not going to guilt him”.
Oh, god, it was HORRIBLE. He has never in our lives been so cruel to me.
Some of the things he kept shouting at me and saying about me were lies, not truth. Only in his “sick” “twisted” post-MKP mind was any of what he was screaming at me even close to being reality.
Yes, MKP says “you create your own reality”, and my husband did. (I have not told the full story of that night to anyone, I have given parts of it, and this is still not everything).
It took me weeks and weeks to not be “frightened” of my husband. It took weeks and weeks for me to not “flinch” every time he tried to touch me in any way. Even for him to just touch my arm when moving around in the kitchen would cause me to flinch and “freak out”. I tried to hide this from him as I was afraid of his reaction.
I WAS, PRE-MKP, NEVER FRIGHTENED OF MY HUSBAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For over 20 years, I never had cause to fear that my husband would harm me in any way!!!! He was sooooooo angry with me for so long after his weekend.
Don't get me wrong, we have had our fights and our differences in our lives together. I never feared he would truly harm me pre MKP. Post MKP I have had my fears that he would.
Everything I said that was not a “yes master, you are so perfect master, I bow down to your greatness over me master, you man, me woman, master”, he would become angry at me and yell at me. Sometimes he would leave the house and come back so hoarse he could not talk. I would guess, from what I have learned about MKP, that he was out cussing me. Makes my heart feel all soft and fuzzy. (Sarcasm)
Please understand, my husband had never had a “true” violent streak in his body. It seems NWTA gave him one.
Is that what they mean by making men real men?
Is that MKP’s idea of a real man- one who becomes violent when he “does not get his way”?
Actually, explaining this to you guys now, has me rethinking this.
I think - I will have to do some searching - that I am still afraid.
What if it happens again?
What if he does lose it enough that he does hit me as he wanted?
I have been walking on eggshells with him ever since and am only now seeing that. Sigh, I will have to think about this some more.
Truly, I feel that my experiences with MKP has caused a form of post traumatic stress syndrome.
I know what this is. I lived for years and years with it because of my upbringing. I know what it feels like.
Thinking about these experiences that were “created” for me by MKP makes me so friggin ANGRY I just want to SPIT!!!!!! The memories make my gut hurt and cramp and jerk around.
And for you MKP guys’ information, I have used the statement “my gut hurts” ever since I was a small child; MKP does NOT own that statement!!!! MKP did NOT create it!!!!
All I can say is, if you knew my husband pre-MKP, you would be shocked and horrified by the negative changes that happened to him. If you knew him pre-MKP, you would truly understand my sadness, anger, etc in regards to what MKP does to men at this LGAT, Gestalt, Jungian Psychology, abusive, SICK MKP weekend and I-groups.
And no, I do not call it sick because of the nudity, pagan rituals, cock talk. I call it sick for many many other reasons that those of us who can think for ourselves, can see.
Also, my husband did let me know that the I-groups he went to included a lot of men “getting very angry”.
MKP teaches men how to get angry, but not how to work with that anger in a healthy positive manner. How educational. (Sarcasm)
I am sorry that this is so long. Blame MKP.
Oh, wait, we create our own realities.
How do I write that sound on Wayne’s World, Wayne’s World? Oogly, oogly, boogly, boogly, wiggle my hands up and down.
I did not get screamed at and threatened and verbally abused and lied to etc etc, and promises made to me broken and the love of my husband taken from me and on and on. Right?
I need to check in with my I-group to make sure my reality fits with the one they want me to have.
Please disregard all info above until I make sure that my reality is acceptable to MKP. (Sarcasm)
Oh, wait, I don’t have a di*k, which is what makes a man a man right? Right?
Standing to pee is what makes a man, right? Ahh, I think most people would say that makes a male.
It has been many many months since my husbands NWTA weekend. He is still not the same. I still fear since writing the above that we will never have the closeness we had shared throughout our relationship pre MKP. I now daily live with the fact, that the man I love is gone and has been replaced with a different personality in many ways. He now seems sadder, and lonlier than pre MKP, he keeps things to himself instead of sharing them with me. I don't know exactly how to explain the negative differences in him.
We still have pre MKP friends who "stay away" more because they since a difference in him that is not positive. He is no longer verbally violent with me, he is no longer involved with MKP as far as I am aware.
Whenever I try to get him to go to a real counselor/therapist, he agrees, and then never does so. I mention it once every few weeks, he agrees it would be good, and then does not follow through.
I grieve still.
I miss my love, will I ever see him again? Will the man that shared his thoughts, emotions, laughter, dreams with me, ever come back? Or did NWTA change this gentle, loving, caring man forever?
I miss the man that shared himself with me. Still, to this day, he holds back from me as never before. He holds back.
MKP, stole my husbands true self, the self that loved me, cared for me, shared with me, the true self that did not hold back from me, that did not keep secrets from me, that told me honestly his thoughts and feelings.
I am also ssooo sorry this is so long. I don’t think I have put this much of my story down for anyone, and, this is not all the horrible things I have lived through for at least two months DAILY, post-MKP.
I would also like to say that I feel MKP OWES ME FOR THE PAIN and SUFFERING THAT THEY HAVE CREATED IN MY LIFE!!!!!
If I could, I would take them to court and tell the whole friggin world how they create pain in the lives of people and then claim, “We didn’t do it, it’s their fault, they create their own reality, or, they are just not ready”.
Give me a break, everyone knows that to a point people create their own reality, but, everyone also knows that when traumatic events happen to us in life, THEY HAPPEN.
Please, pro-MKPers, tell men who have been to war (not MKP men), and have had traumatic events happen to them, that they make their own reality. Oh, hey, my friend was just blown to bits, oh well, he/she’s replaceable (you will understand that statement later). Let us see what kind of reaction you get.
As far as I am concerned, those men and women who are involved with this LGAT group, who are pro-MKP, and claim its virtues, IMHO are WEAK-minded people who cannot think for themselves, or are vulnerable people who have had that vulnerability taken advantage of.
I apologize if that sounds harsh. In writing this and working through my memories of what has happened to my life because of MKP, I find a simmering anger right beneath the surface of my civility. I have been caused GREAT harm, and have no legal recourse to the harm caused me by MKP.
I HAVE BEEN EMOTIONALLY RAPED by MKP!!!!!!
I don’t view this logically as harm caused me by my husband as I feel that the LGAT techniques etc changed who he truly is for a while; even to this day he is not the same. Actually, neither am I. This is not just my emotions on this, I have had friends make comments about the difference in my husband, and how they have been “staying away” from us because of that difference.
I blame MKP, not my husband. MKP lied to him, how can I blame him?
I have had men tell me that this is not the fault of MKP, that it is my husband’s fault. I disagree, if MKP was H-O-N-E-S-T beforehand, he might have not chosen to go!!!! If MKP was H-O-N-E-S-T beforehand, my husband could have made a knowledgeable informed decision as to if MKP was for us or not.
And to MKPers, I say US because as a married couple, what choices my husband makes in life affects me, and what choices I make in life affects him. As a married couple we are supposed to go through this life with each other, helping each other, supporting each other, loving each other, not as separate individuals who have no one to be accountable to except ourselves. MKP takes that accountability between couples and tells the man to give it to MKP. If in my life I ever get the chance, MKP will be held accountable to what they have done to me, my husband, my children and all the women and men out there who MKP has harmed. I will be the first to stand up in a court of law and tell the abuses heaped upon me by MKP.
Let me say that my husband and I have been together for over 20 years; we were high school sweethearts. I have loved my husband with enough power for all these years that I would die for him. I have always wanted his happiness, I might have forgotten that here or there in our lives as things happened, taken him for granted at times, but he has always been in my heart and no matter what happens to us, he always will.
I don’t know how many people in this world believe in such things, but I loved my husband the first time I saw him. I KNEW he was the one for me. He is my soul mate.
Before him, I laughed and snickered when I heard things like that and did not believe in “real” love much less love at first sight. Nor did I believe in soul mates. Things like that was the unreal romanticism of people who did not know what the real world was like. I believed that the opposite sex was for my use as I saw fit only.
Before I met my husband, I was a very angry, hateful person; I had lived such an abusive life, so that for me, love was horrifying and sick. Love meant, that someone beat the sh*t out of you, and then said “I love you”. Love meant that someone said mean nasty things to you, and then said “I love you”.
I looked into my husband’s eyes, and just “melted”. If that makes sense to anyone, it never really has to me; I have just accepted it.
I became a better person for knowing my husband. If anything were to ever happen to us as a couple, I would most likely spend the rest of my life mourning him.
Post-MKP I definitely went through times when I just KNEW my husband wanted to leave me, and I wanted to DIE when I felt that from him. I had times that I KNEW he didn’t leave me post-MKP because we have children, and I knew he did not want them growing up with a divorced family as he had. He swore when he was younger that he would never do anything like that to any children he might have. I have moments when I still suspect he still wants to leave me, and in these moments I feel my heart shriveling to dust.
My husband came home from his MKP weekend, so gung-ho it would have shocked you silly. I have NEVER seen his eyes so glazed and glassy-looking. I would have SWORN that he was high on something, but put it off to him being exhausted as he told me he did not get much sleep and then drove about five hours to get home. Also, his voice was so hoarse, he could barely talk.
I will say here, that the first night and next day he was home he was all smiles and grins and he would grab me and stare into my eyes like he has never done before. I liked that. So yes, if we had gone to the graduation at that point in time, I would only have had positive things to say about MKP, as I am sure most wives would have at that point.
If MKP wants HONEST opinions about the weekend they should do “graduation” six months after NWTA.
Though in truth IMO, MKP only wants honesty from their members to MKP. Actions speak louder than words, and the actions of MKP are not HONEST actions. They are unethical actions.
It was the fallout that made me search for the truth. It was when the weekend high started wearing off that I started seeing the truth of what MKP had done to him.
My true man, had been turned inside out, and from my perspective, the NWTA weekend DID NOT MAKE HIM A MAN. He was a true man before he went. MKP screwed him up!!!!
Part of what started my worries was the fact that my husband drove our new "used" car about 300 miles (closer to 400 I believe) to get to where the NWTA was. He promised to call me when he got there to let me know that he made it there safely. He left on a Friday noon, he never called. I didn't know anything until he got home about 2am on Sunday night. We had a mild argument over this.
MKP takes phones away don’t they, so how could he call me and tell me he made it safely? He did not know beforehand that this would happen; he did not think he needed to pull over and call me before he signed in!!!! But once there, well, we now know what happens at that point, a man is peer pressured and abused into “giving” all of his items to them for the weekend.
Also, my husband was told he needed to carpool as well as many others who have told their story. IMO this is a way for MKP to create a hardship for men to leave the NWTA.
My husband wanted to send MKP money every month. They had a big thing the last day about “tithing” (don’t know if that is what they called it) to MKP in regards to what men felt they got out of the weekend. My husband wanted to send them at least $100.00 a month even though the only thing we were not behind on was our vehicle payment. Even though there are many activities that our children would like to do, but cannot, like swimming lessons, horse-back riding lessons, karate or going to a movie ONE night, because WE CANNOT AFFORD IT.
He was so excited at the idea of sending MKP money. I could not understand it - this man, who to get him to spend 20 bucks, you had to rip it from his hands. He was all, “Well, we can pay part of this bill, and part of that one,” even though we were already doing this.
If MKP truly wants to be helpful to us we could use several thousand dollars to pay off our bills and to get health insurance for our children. Lies and secrets and unethical behavior is not helpful to us.
This was the first BIG fight we had about MKP. I disagreed with him. Ha, I disagreed. I, a mere female, had an OPINION. WE FOUGHT like crazy. NO WAY was I going to send MKP money, not knowing what the group was about yet. It was at this time that I began to have my suspicions, and this was one of the things that started my searching. It was soooooo unlike the man I had known for over half my life.
He suddenly had new beliefs about life, which in our 20+ years, he has never felt, believed, thought, or agreed with. One of those NEW beliefs was: if someone you love causes you pain, then you replace them.
I asked him: “Does that include your friends, parents, or your children, or me?” He would not answer, but finally one day he was mad and answered honestly, “Yes, it means ANYONE you love that causes you pain, you replace them. They are not worth your time!”
Pre-MKP my husband had been the type of man to move from one side of the country to the other to help take care of a family who had just had two major disasters in their lives and needed help. This new man would say, “Whatever, they are not worth it.”
(Sarcasm) I feel that is such a great wonderful way to keep relationships working, don’t you? I feel that is such a wonderful way to have lasting, caring, trusting, loving, intimate, enjoyable relationships, don’t you?
He came back thinking that secrets are okay, even though he knows how I feel about secrets because of my childhood, and promises we had made to each other. For me, secrets are dangerous, and I am NOT talking Christmas present secrets.
Also, if you teach your children that it is okay to keep secrets with each other, how do you teach them to live honest lives and to not sneak around lying to their parents and others? Children learn by example.
If it is okay for Dad to keep secrets from Mom, your children will learn to think, “Well, why can’t we keep secrets from people?”
And for you pro-MKPers, MKP does require secrets, not confidentiality. If you do not know the difference, look up secret, look up confidentiality; see/feel the difference in the explanations. Secret fits MKP. Confidentiality does NOT. Though from my experience MKPers create their own truth in their minds, and no matter what real truths are given to them, they can only see what the NWTA and I-Group has created in their minds. Instead of looking at the facts, they live with blinders on, and everyone else is just “not ready”.
My husband came back from NTWA thinking that things we have always shared with each other were no longer okay to share, that he should only share certain things with his “brothers”, even though, we have always shared EVERYTHING important with each other. And for you pro-MKP persons, I know this to be true.
We have spent too many years of our lives together, staying up till dawn talking, laughing, sharing with each other. We spent time in therapy together because we wanted to learn how to create a closer relationship. Now, after his weekend, that is no longer the truth.
For a MINOR example, he could only share with his “brothers” and not me, if he found another woman attractive, and supposedly I never shared this stuff with him. HELLO, my husband and I have FOR YEARS, pointed out men/women that we thought were attractive in some way or another to each other. Jeeze, I have specific memories of him pointing out women when we were out somewhere, or me pointing out men to him. And please do not take that statement the wrong way. It was a SHARING OF OUR THOUGHTS, and a silliness and trusting within our relationship.
Now, according to him post-NWTA, this never happened and never will? Excuse me? Where did his mind go? Supposedly this was not the way our relationship worked, supposedly it never had, and never would.
Also, he came back thinking that he had some abuses happen to him as a child. I know the things that did happen because we spoke of these things many years ago, and I accepted and loved him anyway. How could I not? He was a child. The abuses that happened were not his fault. Duh, my childhood was so much more filled with all kinds of abuses than his (not saying more painful, just more proliferate).
But you have to understand here, post-MKP he did not remember ever sharing these things with me at first. He was not telling me these things. We were “fighting” about sharing with each other, and he was telling me that there were certain things he could not share with me, only with his “brothers”. When I started telling him of the things he had shared with me years and years ago, he was in “shock” that I knew about them. After a while he finally “remembered”, sort of, sharing these instances with me. He then said to me that “other” things had happened that he never told me about, and realized during his NWTA weekend.
He “remembered” things during the weekend that I suspect, and am almost 100% positive NEVER HAPPENED.
He would not go into detail, and his eyes and face looked “spaced out” when he said something.
I am telling you guys, my husband and I have shared pretty much everything about each other, with each other. I know this because of who we were when we were younger, and the counseling we went through together, and the many many nights we have stayed up until dawn sharing with each other - sharing our hopes, our dreams, our sorrows.
Pre-MKP, I would have said that my husband and I knew just about every nook and cranny about each other’s souls.
If you knew my husband you would understand the “shock” I am in because of these things. My husband is, in general, a VERY stable person; he used to calm me down when my family would start in on abusing me again. He would defend me and protect me from them. Post-MKP - I would say the first month or so - he would just stand there with this “spacey” look on his face and let it happen.
He went to MKP because of several reasons. One was his Dad had died and he was having problems with his family. Another was that my family has sooo many problems and they are always trying to drag us into it. Also, he went because we had been fighting. Who doesn’t after 20+ years? And it does not, in general, mean the end of the world.
He was feeling depressed and vulnerable; the man that recruited him made it sound as if it would be helpful to him. The man (snort) that recruited my husband took advantage of my husband’s vulnerability. MKP men must surely be taught how to see this within a person; he had only met my husband twice, picked up on this, and started in on MKP to him.
To this day, I feel my husband has not been honest with me about many things in regards to MKP, his weekend, and the I-groups he attended. I suspect that he still keeps things from me, and maybe always will now.
I am trying to learn to cope with this. It is painful, knowing how close we were pre-MKP, to now feeling this closeness gone. I have an emptiness within me now, that at moments create an anxiety within me that makes me “try too hard” with my husband, and I see his irritation at me over it. I have this huge sadness, feeling a connection that I have had with my husband for so long, just GONE, in one friggin weekend, GONE.
MKPers, tell me how stealing that from our relationship creates a better husband?
I find myself reaching out, searching for that connection, and finding cold, dark, empty space.
You have to realize that I had trusted my husband about this group. I was so busy with our children, and the things I am involved in with them, that I had not looked into MKP. I had no “intuition” or “gut feelings” then about MKP. I was even excited for my husband, that he would have a group of men to hang out with. So I have to take responsibility for my part in this as well. If I had been more vigilant and researched this group, I would have been able to give him info about the group before he went. Having knowledge beforehand most likely would have saved us this pain that MKP has created. Knowledge equals power; MKP does not give knowledge as, IMO they do not want potential recruits to have the power of knowledge.
And yes pro MKPers, MKP created the problems we are now having!!!!
It was about two days or so after he got back that I hit the Internet and started researching MKP as I had started seeing such horrible things in my husband’s personality, and I was scared.
Also, before I get further into my story, I want to say that as time passed post-MKP, I started finding all kinds of things that my husband was “keeping secret” from me. Pre-MKP, this was not so. These things went against a promise made between us years before, at my husband’s request.
The fact that he had gone to an MKP meeting before his NWTA weekend and never told me about it was one of those things. He kept SWEARING I knew all about it, that he had told me. Keep reading and you will understand my memory better
I found out that my husband had taken a personal letter that I had written to him to share with MKP. Knowing full well that the letter was between him and I, he took my trust, and stomped it into the dust, as HE had come to me several years earlier and requested of me that what happens within our relationship stays within our relationship (no speaking with girlfriends for me), and that anything that affected US was to be discussed between US. Choices were to be agreed upon by the BOTH of us.
He did not discuss going to this weekend with me. He did not tell me about it until a week or two before the weekend. He did not discuss it with me. He did not tell me when it was. He sent out an email to his Mom, his brother, his step-Mom, and then me. I felt ??used??, I felt ??disrespected??, I am not sure of the exact word.
I know if I had broken this promise to my husband as my husband did to me, he would have been very hurt. Post-MKP, he could not understand my “pain” over him breaking our promise and sharing something personal that I had written to him with others.
I do want to say that he claims that he ended up not sharing this information with MKP. I did find the letter within his MKP paperwork. I honestly do not know whether my husband shared this info or not, but I KNOW he planned on it.
My husband brought this up at his weekend, in regards to talking to me about his weekend and he was told “NO”. (He told me this) So, MKP told my husband to ignore a previous promise he had made to me.
In other words, they knowingly and purposefully came between my husband and I.
MKP blames my husband for this as he “agreed” to confidentiality before the weekend, and supposedly he should not have done this. MKP does not give enough information beforehand for men to make KNOWLEDGEABLE INFORMED decisions. As far as I am concerned, this is the fault and tactics of MKP. I will not hold my husband responsible for the unethical techniques that MKP uses. This is a form of ABUSE OF INTIMACY: Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents etc are broken or seriously hampered. This is a form of we are right and you are wrong. This is a form of taking responsibility that MKP owns and forcing that responsibility back onto someone else. I am right and you are wrong syndrome.
I am not in MKP or Woman Within so I am not “good enough” to have promises made to me by my husband kept. He did not say they said that. But, with all the spouting MKP does about honesty, integrity etc., that is the only way I know to take the fact that my husband was told he could not talk to me about his weekend.
My husband made a promise to me. MKP told him it was not important.
I knew nothing until he walked in the door three days later. I spent three days - as I had no way to get hold of my husband - worrying about him. My husband came home from his MKP weekend in the early hours of the morning. Within the next day - yes, that quickly - he was "pushing" very hard for me to go to Woman Within, even though he knew that I am a person who "hypnotizes" incredibly easily, that I can do this to myself and "relive" past experiences as if I were there again. LITERALLY....(Just writing this and remembering the details enough to put it down for you guys is bringing tears to my eyes, making my heart pound, and I have to fight “reliving” it to make it “just a memory”.) Not just sort of there, and not just “remembering” something that happened, but “hearing, feeling, smelling, touching” what happened.
I worked with a therapist years ago in regards to some childhood traumas. She tried to hypnotize me and it blew back in her face as I was immediately - and I mean within the first couple minutes of her starting - slammed into the traumatizing situation. I could not "come out" of it easily and spent the next few days in "terror" again, reliving the memories. She spent an hour calming me down. I then spent somewhere around an hour just sitting in my car trying to be calm enough to drive.
I do not remember what she called this. She did have a term for it, something to do with my memory, which is very very good in regards to traumatizing situations that I have lived through. She told me that I should NEVER be in a situation that could do this to me again without a professional that was trained and had many years of experience, as even she, who was very experienced, had a hard time working with me that day. She explained to me that my memory (things that happen to me, that I live through) is so good that I don’t have to be “fully” hypnotized to “relive” a memory and that sometimes, just a suggestion, smell, texture, word, can even “pull” me into a traumatizing memory. I finally understood why I could be walking in a grocery store etc, hear, smell etc something and have previous traumatic experiences try to slam down on me. It has taken me many years to “control” this fact of my mind. My therapist at the time told me she had only run into one other person in all her years who was similar to me in regards to memory.
My husband was aware of this about me, but showed no concern over my "safety" in going to Woman Within at first. He was CONVINCED that Woman Within would “change my life” for the better. Just like MKP has changed his life for the better? He just kept saying that "it was the only way that I would understand what he had gone through".
IMHO, it was really the only way that I would become as "brainwashed" as him and believe the "new" things that MKP enforced upon his psyche with unethical techniques and dishonesty.
It took me quite a while to get him to "see the error" of me going to Woman Within. For a long time, the feeling I felt from him was that he saw me as “less” of a person and “not good enough” for Woman Within, and so “not good enough” for him.
Pre-MKP he was concerned about this aspect of me, and had respect for me, that my mind could remember things so well. My husband tells me now that he did not remember this aspect of my mind. That he had “forgotten” this bit of information about me.
The wife of the “man” that recruited my husband talked with me. She spent three hours on the phone trying to convince me how wonderful it was, and how soooo it is not a cult, but no reasons why they were not a cult. Just, “Oh, this is not a cult”. And she went on about how Woman Within is soooo nurturing and not at all like the men’s weekend.
I did some research and found an article from a journalist who went to the weekend under cover. It is very much like MKP in the LGAT, Jungian and Gestalt therapy that is used.
So what if they actually cook for you, soooo much more nurturing, right? My husband used to cook for me, I find that more nurturing than a bunch of naked wailing women that are strangers.
And for you pro-MKPers I DON’T HAVE TO EXPERIENCE IT TO KNOW THAT IS HOW I FEEL.
I truly feel that if I had given into my husband and gone to Woman Within that I would be one of those coming home and committing suicide.
And, if this would have taken place, I am sure that instead of taking responsibility for their use of dangerous techniques, the blame would have been put onto me by MKP and Woman Within.
My experience with my therapist years ago showed me that for me to be hypnotized (in any form), is dangerous to me, as my "mind" pulls me into directions that even my therapist did not want me to go. The experiences that I have can not be controlled by the hypnotist, as with most people.
I have not talked about this, but it is very heartbreaking to me, that my husband kept pushing me to do this. It was like he could not even see the reality of what it could do to me. He was “convinced”, “brainwashed”, that he TRULY believed, this was the best thing for me. He finally told me after we fought and fought about it that yes, it was “encouraged” during the weekend for men who had wives and girlfriends to get them to go to Woman Within, that this was the ONLY, I will say again, O-N-L-Y way that the women in their lives could truly love and understand them, that now, only their brothers truly understood them and loved them.
How is that a reality when I have known my husband for over half my life?
How could a group of ****** understand my love better than I?
My heart still aches over the fact that this MKP weekend took away from my husband his concern, compassion and love for me. And have no doubt, for a long time this was my reality. And no, I did not create this reality, MKP did. The man that I had trusted with my heart, was no longer the same man, the man I had trusted with my heart, was too angry with me to find any love within him for me.
And yes, to all pro MKPers who want to slam my reality, MY HUSBAND WAS A DIFFERENT PERSON WHEN HE CAME HOME AND IT WAS NOT A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!
MY HUSBAND CAME HOME NOT HIMSELF, NOT A HEALTHY PERSON.
MY HUSBAND CAME HOME ???? MENTALLY SICK!!!!!!
Pre-MKP he would NEVER NEVER NEVER have requested and pushed me to do something that he KNEW would be dangerous to me.
I sent an email to Woman Within to see what their response would be. They never admitted to the techniques being used, and, of COURSE they could help me and I would be safe???…
Yeah, right!! So, MKP, tell me again how well people are screened for “problems”. Tell me that if something is too intense for some that MKP and Woman Within turns people away.
I HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF JUST THE OPPOSITE!!
I think that all that my husband and I have gone through for a couple months post-NWTA is why I am having a hard time with this MKP situation, even now.
Sadly, I feel, that MKP has changed my husband and I forever.
I am trying harder with my husband. I feel he is trying harder as well, and things ARE better than they were those first couple months.
My innocence is gone though.
My simple trust of my husband and his love for me is gone.
I feel I will never have that unconscious KNOWING that my husband loves me and cares for me again.
I am afraid that I will always “suspect”. How friggin SAD!!!!
My husband and I are doing better, but I still have the fear that was created by my husband’s post-MKP weekend.
I actually went through a grieving period afterwards, as I could see my husband’s body standing in front of me, hear his voice speaking to me, but the man I loved was not in that body any longer.
I ended up having to go back into therapy for a few weeks. I was told to “start saving money”, as from what they had seen with groups like this, divorce was very high. They were very concerned about my children and I, they were very concerned about my husband and wanted him to come in for counseling. (He has not to this day) My husband’s comment to this was that they did not like the “competition”. My comment was; that as trained, licensed therapist they did not like people who were not trained using the types of therapy and techniques on people that MKP uses, they considered it unethical and dangerous. Trained therapists did not consider NWTA “educational”, they considered MKP and NWTA dangerous to people's well-being.
MKPers, I gave all the info I have about MKP to my therapist, they did not make an uninformed decision about MKP.
For weeks, all I could do was cry.
My husband became verbally abusive to me and threatened to hit me. He has NEVER in our long relationship done this to me (or to anybody; he had always been a gentle, caring man).
He has always known what my childhood was like and has never in our relationship done anything that would scare me like post MKP. The night he threatened to hit me, he was screaming at me to “shut the f*ck up, and do as he said or get the f*ck out, and that he wanted to f*cking hit me, that I was stupid and f*ucked up in the brain, and on and on”. (Please excuse the language, These were his exact words to me) He was close enough to me that I could “feel” the anger emanating off his body. I could feel the spit flying from his mouth and landing on me as he screamed at me. I was slammed back into my childhood traumas, my vision went all haywire, I got the sweats and became very dizzy.
I started crying in huge hiccupping gasps, which caused him to yell at me to “f*cking stop the goddamn crying that I was not going to guilt him”.
Oh, god, it was HORRIBLE. He has never in our lives been so cruel to me.
Some of the things he kept shouting at me and saying about me were lies, not truth. Only in his “sick” “twisted” post-MKP mind was any of what he was screaming at me even close to being reality.
Yes, MKP says “you create your own reality”, and my husband did. (I have not told the full story of that night to anyone, I have given parts of it, and this is still not everything).
It took me weeks and weeks to not be “frightened” of my husband. It took weeks and weeks for me to not “flinch” every time he tried to touch me in any way. Even for him to just touch my arm when moving around in the kitchen would cause me to flinch and “freak out”. I tried to hide this from him as I was afraid of his reaction.
I WAS, PRE-MKP, NEVER FRIGHTENED OF MY HUSBAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For over 20 years, I never had cause to fear that my husband would harm me in any way!!!! He was sooooooo angry with me for so long after his weekend.
Don't get me wrong, we have had our fights and our differences in our lives together. I never feared he would truly harm me pre MKP. Post MKP I have had my fears that he would.
Everything I said that was not a “yes master, you are so perfect master, I bow down to your greatness over me master, you man, me woman, master”, he would become angry at me and yell at me. Sometimes he would leave the house and come back so hoarse he could not talk. I would guess, from what I have learned about MKP, that he was out cussing me. Makes my heart feel all soft and fuzzy. (Sarcasm)
Please understand, my husband had never had a “true” violent streak in his body. It seems NWTA gave him one.
Is that what they mean by making men real men?
Is that MKP’s idea of a real man- one who becomes violent when he “does not get his way”?
Actually, explaining this to you guys now, has me rethinking this.
I think - I will have to do some searching - that I am still afraid.
What if it happens again?
What if he does lose it enough that he does hit me as he wanted?
I have been walking on eggshells with him ever since and am only now seeing that. Sigh, I will have to think about this some more.
Truly, I feel that my experiences with MKP has caused a form of post traumatic stress syndrome.
I know what this is. I lived for years and years with it because of my upbringing. I know what it feels like.
Thinking about these experiences that were “created” for me by MKP makes me so friggin ANGRY I just want to SPIT!!!!!! The memories make my gut hurt and cramp and jerk around.
And for you MKP guys’ information, I have used the statement “my gut hurts” ever since I was a small child; MKP does NOT own that statement!!!! MKP did NOT create it!!!!
All I can say is, if you knew my husband pre-MKP, you would be shocked and horrified by the negative changes that happened to him. If you knew him pre-MKP, you would truly understand my sadness, anger, etc in regards to what MKP does to men at this LGAT, Gestalt, Jungian Psychology, abusive, SICK MKP weekend and I-groups.
And no, I do not call it sick because of the nudity, pagan rituals, cock talk. I call it sick for many many other reasons that those of us who can think for ourselves, can see.
Also, my husband did let me know that the I-groups he went to included a lot of men “getting very angry”.
MKP teaches men how to get angry, but not how to work with that anger in a healthy positive manner. How educational. (Sarcasm)
I am sorry that this is so long. Blame MKP.
Oh, wait, we create our own realities.
How do I write that sound on Wayne’s World, Wayne’s World? Oogly, oogly, boogly, boogly, wiggle my hands up and down.
I did not get screamed at and threatened and verbally abused and lied to etc etc, and promises made to me broken and the love of my husband taken from me and on and on. Right?
I need to check in with my I-group to make sure my reality fits with the one they want me to have.
Please disregard all info above until I make sure that my reality is acceptable to MKP. (Sarcasm)
Oh, wait, I don’t have a di*k, which is what makes a man a man right? Right?
Standing to pee is what makes a man, right? Ahh, I think most people would say that makes a male.
It has been many many months since my husbands NWTA weekend. He is still not the same. I still fear since writing the above that we will never have the closeness we had shared throughout our relationship pre MKP. I now daily live with the fact, that the man I love is gone and has been replaced with a different personality in many ways. He now seems sadder, and lonlier than pre MKP, he keeps things to himself instead of sharing them with me. I don't know exactly how to explain the negative differences in him.
We still have pre MKP friends who "stay away" more because they since a difference in him that is not positive. He is no longer verbally violent with me, he is no longer involved with MKP as far as I am aware.
Whenever I try to get him to go to a real counselor/therapist, he agrees, and then never does so. I mention it once every few weeks, he agrees it would be good, and then does not follow through.
I grieve still.
I miss my love, will I ever see him again? Will the man that shared his thoughts, emotions, laughter, dreams with me, ever come back? Or did NWTA change this gentle, loving, caring man forever?
I miss the man that shared himself with me. Still, to this day, he holds back from me as never before. He holds back.
MKP, stole my husbands true self, the self that loved me, cared for me, shared with me, the true self that did not hold back from me, that did not keep secrets from me, that told me honestly his thoughts and feelings.
Mankind project
Posted by:
what2do
()
Date: October 06, 2006 10:09AM
Ginah, I am so sorry. I am almost glad my husband had that "sexual" episode that happened at NWTA. Had that not happened, I fear I would be experiencing those same things. He did attend graduation, but has never gone back.
I sometimes see a little piece of what you speak of. Since his weekend, once or twice he has angrily spoke of his "manhood" will not allow this or that. I never heard those phrases before his weekend. But it is so minor, I have to honestly say, I do not know if it is because of NWTA.
I do believe MKP only wants men to stay married to wives who attend Women Within, or women who will be very subservient and never question the money or time they give MKP.
I have heard of several divorces that have occurred after joining MKP. I know of a suicice by a young man less than 2 weeks after returning from NWTA. This young man showed no emotional problems before going.
This organization can be dangerous. I do not know if all the different groups are like the group my husband joined. Maybe some of them are more mellow, so therefore, these men just do not see what we see. But I firmly believe some of these groups are very dangerous. I will continue to speak out against them.
I understand this was hard for you to post this story. I admire your courage. These stories need to be told. I hope in time the effects of NWTA will disappear from your husband, and you will have that man back.
Keep posting.
By the way, I will not even respond to the poster who thinks my son should go. If he bothered to read my posts on this entire thread, he knows why I do not want him to go.
I sometimes see a little piece of what you speak of. Since his weekend, once or twice he has angrily spoke of his "manhood" will not allow this or that. I never heard those phrases before his weekend. But it is so minor, I have to honestly say, I do not know if it is because of NWTA.
I do believe MKP only wants men to stay married to wives who attend Women Within, or women who will be very subservient and never question the money or time they give MKP.
I have heard of several divorces that have occurred after joining MKP. I know of a suicice by a young man less than 2 weeks after returning from NWTA. This young man showed no emotional problems before going.
This organization can be dangerous. I do not know if all the different groups are like the group my husband joined. Maybe some of them are more mellow, so therefore, these men just do not see what we see. But I firmly believe some of these groups are very dangerous. I will continue to speak out against them.
I understand this was hard for you to post this story. I admire your courage. These stories need to be told. I hope in time the effects of NWTA will disappear from your husband, and you will have that man back.
Keep posting.
By the way, I will not even respond to the poster who thinks my son should go. If he bothered to read my posts on this entire thread, he knows why I do not want him to go.
Mankind project
Posted by:
efoss17
()
Date: October 10, 2006 01:09AM
Quote
I_have_somthing_to_say
Can you step past your fear and let others live? I am open to all questions or comments....
I'll start by saying that I feel that I am very open minded and also very well educated. My father has been involved with MKP for a little over a year. (see my post on [board.culteducation.com]) I did not initially have a problem with MKP or my father's involvement with it. I do believe that there are many avenues that people must pursue in order to find themselves in this crazy world. I also believe that many find happiness in many different lifestyles. However, I outlined a lot of my fears and a lot of negative changes that I've seen in my father over the last six months or so, mainly financial irresponsibility, closed mindedness for anyone outside MKP, and a neglect for his family. In him finding happiness he is abandoning the life that he used to live and hurting those around him that care about him. For a (somewhat farfetched) analogy: if someone is happy stealing and that's the way they gain confidence and self worth should you let them do it? There is a line you need to draw when they are hurting others around them in their pursuit of happiness.
In addition to that, I almost feel like MKP is an unhealthy addiction. My father has struggled with his own identity for quite some time and he is very vulnerable as a "bandwagon jumper." He also struggles with addiction-- not alcohol or drugs but moreso psychological addictions. I feel like MKP has become an addiction for him and stepping away from it is becoming more and more difficult for him as he gets drawn deeper in. It's almost like a support group addiction.
The fact that he would rather be with 20 year old boys than his peers or his wife and family is really hard for me to handle. I'm starting to believe that MKP is not really challenging men to grow but really surrounding them in a bubble of their own reality.
Men in MKP interact and react in certain ways with eachother and the more time he is spending with MKP, the more he expects those kind of interactions and reactions from other people in his life. When he doesn't get those interactions he retreats to his "friends" in his I-group, because they "make him feel good".
Another concern I have is that he is constantly "supporting and helping" others. I believe that there are a lot of good things that come from from helping others and it can be very theraputic. However, it is almost an addiction with him in that he doesn't want to be around anyone that doesn't need his help. I am a very strong and confident person and I think he fears being around me because I am not asking him for help or strength. I am only asking for company and a fun father-daughter relationship. He doesn't feel needed (obviously now that I am on my own financially and otherwise) and thus he feels intimidated in a way.
One last concern with MKP-- most therapy, either in group or individual, tries to prep someone for getting OFF therapy so they can be self sufficient on their own. I feel like MKP is just the opposite: they draw people in further and encourage them to become more and more involved. Any comments or contradictions to this? I am open to hear.
I really want to find out more about mankind project but whenever I ask my father about it we end up fighting (I am somewhat skeptical and he is defensive) so I guess I'm using this site (and a lot of others) as a resource for me to find out more without fighting with my father, as I feel that is hurting our relationship and driving us further apart. So any suggestions and comments from pro-MKP or anti-MKP are appreciated.
Mankind project
Posted by:
Attune
()
Date: October 11, 2006 09:18PM
A lot of what I read about MKP and the weekend is not accurate and there are many out right lies.
I see men here who obviously have no integrity and confidentiality means nothing. Embellishing or even creating fiction around any organization to become the centre of attention on a place like this does nothing to enhance one's character.
I see a lot of fine organizations trashed in places like this.
Anyone who can take what someone writes here and assume it correct may be the ones to watch out for.
I looked around and have found that Jewish and Catholic organizations -including the catholic church - have the some real horrors to watch out for - if you believe all that is posted. Actually it is hard not to find an organiztion out in the word that isn't a cult on here.
So where do we turn now?
Attune
I see men here who obviously have no integrity and confidentiality means nothing. Embellishing or even creating fiction around any organization to become the centre of attention on a place like this does nothing to enhance one's character.
I see a lot of fine organizations trashed in places like this.
Anyone who can take what someone writes here and assume it correct may be the ones to watch out for.
I looked around and have found that Jewish and Catholic organizations -including the catholic church - have the some real horrors to watch out for - if you believe all that is posted. Actually it is hard not to find an organiztion out in the word that isn't a cult on here.
So where do we turn now?
Attune
Mankind project
Posted by:
Brad69
()
Date: October 11, 2006 09:50PM
That's great! But check on your definition of integrity. Or did MKP have to redefine it for you?
If you're happy with a group coming before family, then I suggest you check your values.
Also, check on the real stories of real people on these boards. See how MKP has come between them and their loved ones.
Read about methods of coercive persuasion - you don't have to find that information at Rick Ross. It's here, but if you don't like what you see, go elsewhere. It is available.
You would have us disbelieve these stories, have us think many people who posted here are lying. Why would they take the time out to do that?
They're out in the open, which is more than can be said for MKP.
If you're happy with a group coming before family, then I suggest you check your values.
Also, check on the real stories of real people on these boards. See how MKP has come between them and their loved ones.
Read about methods of coercive persuasion - you don't have to find that information at Rick Ross. It's here, but if you don't like what you see, go elsewhere. It is available.
You would have us disbelieve these stories, have us think many people who posted here are lying. Why would they take the time out to do that?
They're out in the open, which is more than can be said for MKP.
Mankind project
Posted by:
ginah
()
Date: October 11, 2006 11:46PM
Quote
Attune"]A lot of what I read about MKP and the weekend is not accurate and there are many out right lies.
I see men here who obviously have no integrity and confidentiality means nothing.
What have you seen that are "outright" lies? Point these instances out to us.
The FACT that most of us have read the NWTA weekend protocol handbook, and that we are basing our beliefs on personal experience, means that I completely disregard your above statement that what is being said are outright lies.
This is just another MKPer trying to confuse true reality with MKPs creation of reality.
Men who choose to discuss what truly went on during the weekend with others and their significant others have more integrity than those that choose to continue the secrecy and lies that MKP promotes. Those that continue the lies and secrecy are men who live thier lives out of integrity as they promote pain and suffering in the lives of others knowingly.
Confidentiality is secrecy within MKP. Confidentiality coerced during an LGAT cult type weekend is under the law and under the true thoughts of integrity, honesty, love and compassion non enforcable.
To call men who choose to uphold the rights of marriage and significant others as "out of integrity" are men who truly do not understand what the word and emotions of true integrity is. Men who choose to uphold integrity and honesty within their relationship with their significant others, are the real men with real integrity.
I truly feel sorry for these men, to not realize what they are creating for themselves and others, is truly a sad thing. For those who do understand what they are creating and continuing to do so under the guise of "helping others" are men who should be held to true accountability. Not MKPs guise of accountability.
As well, if this man is saying that my experiences are "lies", I believe that he is "out of integrity", as he is not in my life and has not lived the pain and suffering that I lived through. I would think that he probably feels this way as I am a woman who refuses to be "brainwashed" by woman within. I am a woman who has her own thoughts and opinions and I am strong enough to "use my brain" and not be coerced.
I call all MKP men to seek within themselves the truth of where they want their lives and loved ones to end up at. If they can truly be honest with themselves. I sincerely doubt this as they have been confused by the tactics of MKP.
I call MKP to STOP the EMOTIONAL RAPE that they are creating for men and women.
MKP hides behind the skirts of "education", "confidence", "integrity", "honesty", "non-profit" etc. Hides behind the skirts, to keep the truth (not their made up truth), of the reality of MKP from the public.
Mankind project
Posted by:
dsuper
()
Date: October 13, 2006 09:38PM
I have posted before... I am an MKP member, although not a very active one.
I think that it is really important to recognize that not everyone that attends an NWTA is emotionally ready. Perhaps there are difficulties in marriage or with personal relationships that they are hiding or suppressing and that their experience on the weekend teaches them that it is okay the emotions that they experience are their own and they should not be ignored.
MKP would never condone violence of any kind against anyone. That is not what the group is about and not what the weekend is about.
To people who have experienced difficulties in their relationships following a loved ones participation in such a group, I am sorry to hear that.
Oh, I am a married man and my wife has never been contacted, coerced, nor has it even been suggested that she attend a Women Within weekend.
I understand that people have different opinions about groups, but I think if you are going to have a forum with all negative things on it, it is important to recognize that many men are leading happier and healthier lives since they became involved in this orgainization. To not do so is irresponsible and unfair.
I think that it is really important to recognize that not everyone that attends an NWTA is emotionally ready. Perhaps there are difficulties in marriage or with personal relationships that they are hiding or suppressing and that their experience on the weekend teaches them that it is okay the emotions that they experience are their own and they should not be ignored.
MKP would never condone violence of any kind against anyone. That is not what the group is about and not what the weekend is about.
To people who have experienced difficulties in their relationships following a loved ones participation in such a group, I am sorry to hear that.
Oh, I am a married man and my wife has never been contacted, coerced, nor has it even been suggested that she attend a Women Within weekend.
I understand that people have different opinions about groups, but I think if you are going to have a forum with all negative things on it, it is important to recognize that many men are leading happier and healthier lives since they became involved in this orgainization. To not do so is irresponsible and unfair.
Mankind project
Posted by:
ginah
()
Date: October 15, 2006 12:36AM
Quote
dsuper
I have posted before... I am an MKP member, although not a very active one.
I think that it is really important to recognize that not everyone that attends an NWTA is emotionally ready.
I understand that people have different opinions about groups, but I think if you are going to have a forum with all negative things on it, it is important to recognize that many men are leading happier and healthier lives since they became involved in this orgainization. To not do so is irresponsible and unfair.
Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as "of the devil" or "unenlightened", or "not ready", etc.
This is a board "against", not "for" cults and LGATs. If you want a group that is "all about" how nice MKP is, this is not it.
PARANOID - WE ARE BEING PERSECUTED
Any time you say anything negative about the group, whether justified or no, it is regarded as "persecution". Any criticism of the individual is also seen as persecution only because they are the "enlightened" one - not because they, as an individual, have done the wrong thing. However, at the same time they will feel free to criticise whatever you believe, say and do because they are "the only ones who are right".
Quote
Oh, I am a married man and my wife has never been contacted, coerced, nor has it even been suggested that she attend a Women Within weekend.
Would you be willing to have your wife speak with us on this site?
I see many men and women on this site "against" MKP, I see many men on this site "for" MKP, I have not seen one woman anywhere in my searching who is "for" MKP. The only woman I have known who is "for" MKP was coerced into going to "woman within" by her husband, they split because she would not go, and she finally went to "save her marriage". I just think that is a bit interesting.
How would you feel about your wife finding out the truth? Would she be upset? Hurt? Angry? Sad? What does she think about your personality since you have been in MKP? I would like to ask her.
Mankind project
Posted by:
DonR
()
Date: October 17, 2006 05:13AM
I just attended a weekend MKP training.
This is a forum for the open discussion about LGAT. As I understand the purposes of forums, differing opinions are allowed.
I believe MKP is a cult. By definition cults are neither good nor bad. Cults are merely groups with a sharp focus to particular leaders or beliefs.
From my initial experience, I was a little disturbed by the secrecy, but not put off. Having gone through the initial training, I intend to pursue more. I liked it.
As for MKP being a cult, so are the Masons, Knights of Columbus and the B'Hai faith. The Jesus movement was a cult for the first three centuries of the Common Era.
In my opinion so are the adherents to the republican agenda of Karl Rove and Tom Delay.
I will comment about my interactions with MKP from time to time.
I fully expect to have my opinions attacked here. That seems to be the way things go.
This is a forum for the open discussion about LGAT. As I understand the purposes of forums, differing opinions are allowed.
I believe MKP is a cult. By definition cults are neither good nor bad. Cults are merely groups with a sharp focus to particular leaders or beliefs.
From my initial experience, I was a little disturbed by the secrecy, but not put off. Having gone through the initial training, I intend to pursue more. I liked it.
As for MKP being a cult, so are the Masons, Knights of Columbus and the B'Hai faith. The Jesus movement was a cult for the first three centuries of the Common Era.
In my opinion so are the adherents to the republican agenda of Karl Rove and Tom Delay.
I will comment about my interactions with MKP from time to time.
I fully expect to have my opinions attacked here. That seems to be the way things go.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.