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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: DINGO ()
Date: December 16, 2017 02:50AM

So, I was suspicious of Real Love from the start. I embraced it, and 6 months down the track feel the same – except even more suspicious of it, and not only that but deeply concerned about the people who have been drawn into this cult organization.

I read four books. Each extremely repetitive and full of Greg Baer’s own ideas and principles with some massive broad sweeping statements – none of which have been verified and authenticated by any experts in the fields of psychotherapy, counselling, therapy etc. He claims his books were ‘channelled’ from God. Well, reading them they certainly do not appear to have been channelled by a higher source by any stretch. They have been highly edited to manipulate the reader to perceive that his RealLove principles are the real thing - ‘actual’ ‘real’ and ‘genuine’ ‘love’ and ‘unconditional love’. Basically, what the whole world has known as unconditional love for millenia is totally wrong. Only RealLove is the real thing. Only RealLove is unconditional love. We’ve all been doing it wrong for centuries. The whole world is doing it wrong except those doing RealLove. Anyone not doing RealLove is only sharing ‘conditional’ love and is being false, fake, phoney and unreal. Therefore, any love, loving actions or words directed to anyone doing RealLove will either be openly rejected or mocked, or ignored as they tell themselves that people are only being loving, kind or caring etc. because they want something from that person. It is a massive distortion which begins in the books. As a clear minded person with my head screwed on straight I can see the play of words and the twisting of dialogue repeated over and over in each and every book, so that the reader gradually (maybe even unwittingly) perceives that RealLove ‘IS’ unconditional love. The two are one and the same. They are not. RealLove is a set of principles devised and invented by Greg Baer in the recent decade or so – whereas unconditional love has been around for longer than we know. This basic principle sets RealLove people apart from their family, friends, coworkers and other people in their lives, as they totally see and perceive all interactions with all people completely differently to the rest of the world NOT doing RealLove. They do not trust or believe anyone’s love, caring, kindness, compassion, deeds, or words at all. They may not say anything directly, but inside their head this is what they are taught to believe about the rest of the world outside of RealLove. I see so much stuff in the books which is textbook counselling and psychology, which is already well known and understood – as it has been studied for over 100 years now! Yet, there is no credit or footnotes about the sources of all this information shared – so you may believe that the writer was a very clever person to realise all this stuff and write these earth shattering books! There are various other principles from religious and spiritual sources – not given credit either. For some people reading the books the writer might come across as some sort of genius. However, apart from being incredibly boring, repetitive and annoying to read (because I can see the play of words and the connection to what is really going on) there is some useful information in them. The arguments and toxic interactions between people that are explained, with the alternative more loving version are great stuff – and very helpful for people who have been or are going through or in toxic relationships or have been like this most of their life. More of these conversations would help people enormously – however, the writer is clearly guiding the reader towards joining up RealLove. That is the message! The sad thing is that people who are doing RealLove actually believe that every single person in the whole world is relating with each other badly and in a toxic manner. This is totally incorrect. We may have been in or seen toxic relating, but we are not ALL behaving like this every moment of every day with every single person (thus needing RealLove to save us!!). I have myself already used most of the alternative and loving responses throughout most of my life, and I have seen practically all of the loving responses in others too! So, I eventually got bored with the books. A friend was expecting me to be somehow wowed and fired up and all charged up with excitement. But I wasn’t, because I have read it and studied it all before and therefore none of it was new to me. BUT….. I can totally understand that some dreadfully vulnerable and emotionally weak people WOULD see magic in these books and these words, and probably would, with very little convincing… sign up to it all.

The principles for learning how to be unconditionally loving that Greg writes about in his book require adherents who sign up to RealLove to label and identify attitudes and behaviours in every interaction they have with every person every day. These are called the ‘Getting and Protecting’ Behaviours. Every behaviour and feeling is seen as negative – RealLove people are labelling everyone all the time (including themselves). Of course all of these behaviours can also be extraordinarily positive as well as negative. But no one learns how to see the positive, only to identify the negative. By identifying these labels manifested in themselves the RealLove adherent runs to their daddy (aka coach) to ‘get loved’ and to ‘be seen’ so that daddy can make them feel better about having bad feelings. There is at no time any acknowledgement that all of our feelings and emotions are what make us human, are required to navigate our life, keep us safe, help us to understand things, ourselves and others; and to grow as a human being. I am not quite sure where all this destructive thinking will actually lead to, except more and more dependence or co-dependence on the mummy/daddy. It appears to be keeping people in a dark place and not leading to any form of healing or empowerment.
Isn’t that what a life coaching organisation professes to do though? Heal and empower!

Yet, I don’t see any of this going on at all. The advice is to immerse totally into RealLove in every possible way – to the exclusion of any and everything else. Read all the books. Listen in on phone calls every night. Follow the Greg-chat video every week, and check out the archive and fill yourself up with Greg-videos as much as you can. Go to groups. Sign up to the 12-month program (to have the principles rammed down your throat more and more and more). Go to courses and seminars – each with one of the themes of his many books (parenting, victimhood etc.) and hear all the same stuff over and over again. Do one day seminars on how to organise your life RealLove style! Join a religion (preferably Mormons, because this organisation ‘aligns with the principles of RealLove, and because Greg is a Mormon too!). Most importantly we NEED to get an intervention – as soon as possible once we realize that RealLove will be the thing that will save our life.

The ‘intervention’ is a complete psychological profile extricating every deep emotional wound from childhood and through adulthood. It’s not required for any other form of life coaching, counselling, psychotherapy, mental health therapy, psychiatry or hypnotherapy. We don’t need to go through this outrageous process for a whole weekend long retreat, costing thousands, in order to go on a journey of healing, self-discovery and to learn to be more loving. Period. However, with RealLove this is ESSENTIAL for it to actually work – for anyone and everyone. Period. The intervention is designed to rip your psyche apart into pieces – in order to show you how much you really NEED RealLove. People are requested to get naked and be held like a baby in the arms of a coach. This is in order to re-birth the person, so that they can then choose new parents (an ‘emotional dad’ or ‘emotional mum’) who will become our daddy or mummy (or both) and bring us up properly – because Greg says our own parents didn’t do things properly and we are all therefore damaged from our childhood. RealLove also tells people that they are all only 2 or 3 years old ‘emotionally’. So once we are reborn, chosen a new mummy and daddy, rejected our own, and been told we are a little child we can now begin to grow up all over again – but properly loved this time. By the coach/es of course! (or Greg). People can begin all over again, being a child and growing up properly while in their adulthood. Thus, comes the total ‘dependence’ on the daddy/mummy and which underpins the whole RealLove process. The new adherent gets to have phone calls with their new mummy/daddy who ‘really’ loves them, and can see them. The adherent runs to their mummy/daddy to ‘get loved’ and share the truth of their bad thoughts, feelings, interactions etc.. and be guided as to what to do next etc. I liken it to the former Catholic Confession – just run to daddy, who will love you and see you and all your bad behaviour will be forgiven. You won’t get told off either! Greg states, and RealLove purports this profusely, that until we ‘have been loved properly’ (meaning, by RealLove standards that is) then we have absolutely no idea how to love another person at all. No idea. We have to learn to submit and receive love from RealLove before we can ever understand or be allowed to love anyone. Ever. To date another person, to have or maintain a current relationship. (Most couples are separated by the way - which is distressing for some people as this is when they need each other the most). The getting naked is intimidating and not acceptable by any perspective. People who are now in a better emotional place and questioning RealLove are feeling stupid and ashamed for doing it. While others who have been traumatised by abuse in their life, are now traumatised all over again. How is this happening?

After the books, I went to groups. At least I was pre-warned about the ‘holding’ thing. But even so, seeing grown men cuddled like a baby by grown men or women (and vice versa) was a bit alarming. When people don’t know about this and see it, like first timers to a group, they are in a bit of shock. Hence, they don’t turn up to another group! Not surprising. The overly long and deep staring can be painful on the eyes – and I am not sure what it is supposed to achieve. What I do know is that it is a technique to put people off of maintaining intelligent cognitive thought, of stopping the mind from thinking and working properly. The hugging that goes on is to be long and very tight. Hugging is fine, if it is meant and genuine, but this feels more like having to be done because Greg says it is loving. A big difference. Not really sure what anyone is supposed to get from being in a group to be honest – most of it is spent looking at someone being held like a baby, nursed and kissed and mollycoddled. I did not feel enriched, lighter, enlightened or having learnt anything by the process. Other groups, where holding is not so dominant are aimed at getting people to open up and share the most painful parts of themselves and their life – by failing to react or question the person sharing, this is perceived to be a loving act and is making everyone more loving. However, this happens in counselling anyway, with close friends or partners, in the family home, in church groups etc… I can only assume that the doing it in front of strangers will gradually entice them to join RealLove in full.

Question Greg and his claims – people back away, shut up, or walk away. He is worshipped, while people don’t see that this is what they are doing. He is totally beyond question. Everything Greg says is gospel, has come from God, has been channelled, is true. If you question RealLove then you are not taking your life and your self seriously. RealLove is the only answer to changing your life for the better – nothing else in the whole world will work. The coaches (mummies and daddies) only recommend full immersion in Greg’s RealLove materials. This process totally closes the minds of adherents in RealLove, to the point where they only trust each other and feel those not doing RealLove (the outside world) are all wrong and will splash them with their negativity and fears etc. Hence, stay away from people as much as possible – immerse yourself totally into RealLove so that this is the only language and conversation possible in your life. Not only that, but anything that is ordinarily deemed a good or positive thing to do by the conventional therapeutic community is shunned. So if we are stressed, anxious, tense, angry, fearful or whatever we’d normally do things like listen to music, dance about, meditate, mindfulness, walking, relaxation, yoga etc.. but these are thought of as ‘distractions’ and are thus a bad thing. People must not do these things because it will distract them away from RealLove, and RealLove is where the true healing lies. Therefore RealLove principles and jargon is spouted all the time by RealLove adherents, which is something that makes family and friends pull away from them. But of course, there is something wrong with them, not the RealLove adherent. In fact, everything wrong is other people. Everything.

This is an awful psychotherapy cult that clearly uses re-evaluation counselling as one of it’s tools to control people. Yet, all the time every adherent is constantly reminded with these words “you get to choose” and even though no one goes against the advice of mummy/daddy this organisation takes no responsibility for the advice given by coaches, or indeed that anyone will actually learn to be unconditionally loving at all. As mentioned previously by someone else – the costs are extravagant. And also, why is something that is clearly psychotherapy promoted as life coaching? Why also, is this organisation a registered charity? What charitable work does it actually do? Should a cult be a charity? Should untrained and unqualified people be doing such intense psychological work? (they may be trained in RealLove coaching, but are not mental health practitioners).

One last thought. RealLove pulls people into its web who are lonely, divorced or separated, sad, depressed, weak, broken-hearted, alone and very, very emotionally vulnerable. They may attend groups and fall for the sickly over the top ‘loving’ welcome each time (and so ‘feel’ loved), they may read books and feel the answer may actually lie in RealLove. They may eventually give in and have an ‘intervention’ after being told by several adherents how amazing it was for them, changed their life etc… and how when they walked through the door and met Greg “he just knew everything about me and knew what to do” etc.. There are people who ‘should’ be under the care of qualified and licenced mental health professionals and who instead are embroiled in RealLove. But then again, as with all cults, they are the best candidates – totally pliable and able to be manipulated, easily led, easily fooled, etc.. And so the ‘long slow poach’ ensues whereby they are gradually hooked and brought in bit by bit until they totally submit.

Looks great on websites and facebook. But behind the surface RealLove is a different story. My heart goes out to all the people totally confused and wondering what happened, and how come they got mixed up in RealLove.

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: NHFNP ()
Date: December 26, 2017 09:59AM

I have a question about this “Real Love” group. My son has been sucked into this group through his wife’s mother. She introduced my son and her daughter when they were dating. It’s a long story but I remember the first time his future mother-in-law invited her daughter and my son to one of her “group meetings “, he called me later and he told me about the meeting. He said that it made him really sad to hear all of these people sit around and talk about how they had never felt “unconditional”love. He said “l was so sad because I always felt love, and knew my brother and Sister loved me, and knew you and dad loved me, and knew you loved each other, and knew that I loved you all. It just made me sad!” He married the girl back in May. We flew out to the wedding, then in June he sent the same email to each member of the family, his father and I, his sister, and his brother and said that he was breaking all ties with family “ while I work on personal improvements.” We have not heard a word since. This has been devastating to our very close family. We get some items of news about him from mutual friends but that is all.

My question is whether this is part of this organization’s mode of operation? Separate a person from their family and those who truly love them in an effort to control them. Like I said this has been devastating. Our family is so close. This son and our daughter spent a year together at the same college and would have lunch together every day. Now he never speaks to her. She is devastated. Would love any insight.

I did buy the book and read some of it. I am a Nurse Practitioner by profession and I honestly couldn’t stomach the constant contradictions in most of his statements. It was very apparent to me that it was written by a person who had an addicted personality and who also had borderline personality disorder. I am very troubled and could use some information to gain insight into what I am up against!

I write my son every week. He may not be responding to me but I won’t stop being his mother and letting him know how much I love an miss him!

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: DINGO ()
Date: December 26, 2017 08:11PM

Dear NHFNP,

Firstly, I really do totally 'get' where you are coming from. If you read all the posts in this thread, as well as the post REAL LOVE in the thread on 'Cults, Sects and New Religious Movements' you will be able to get a better idea of what is going on in Real Love.

I was nearly pulled in, and can see exactly what they are doing with your son. I however, had a breakdown some years ago and have had lots of treatment on the NHS in the UK, as well as hypnotherapy and some spiritual and unconventional stuff too. I can see clearly if someone is not well emotionally as I have been in that place (somewhere I don't wish to go again - I was on suicide watch, self-harmed, all sorts). RealLove preys on those who are weak and emotionally vulnerable, but if you are not in the category they will try their utmost to convince you that you need to be doing RealLove. I am a whole person and from day one I didn't feel right about this organisation - I challenged it every step of the way. I was provoked so many times into behaving angrily (although it didn't work) and I asked why they keep doing this. I was told it was for my own good - that they were helping me, they were 'loving me' by doing this. They wanted to bring out the darkness. Well, they are not professionals, and I have already done masses of work on myself so they can try as much as they want but they are not going to get the response they want to see. Anyway, I too went to groups first of all. I was a taken aback by them to be honest. And yes, like your son was amazed at seeing so many desperate souls feeling totally unloved and (supposedly) having never received any form of unconditional love, I was amazed at this too. Other people are as well. But, when you are 'whole' and a bit stronger (plus, I have studied psychology at university level as a part of my profession) as well as knowledgeable, I was not going to be fooled by this. In fact, I can see very clearly how they try to fool people into believing their ways.

This is because Greg Baer says that the whole world (yes, the whole world) does not know how to love unconditionally. Only RealLove can do this. Yes, he actually believes this and so do all the people doing RealLove. If you join RealLove and follow the principles devised by Greg Baer you will learn how to be unconditionally loving. But..... in order to give love and be an unconditionally loving person you have to first learn how to 'be loved properly'. This is because Greg says that no one was parented properly or loved properly by their parents. No one. In the whole world. Ever.

So, we are to submit to Greg's way and allow ourselves to 'be loved' by one of Greg's team (or Greg himself) because only 'they' know how to give love properly (because, guess what? Yep, no one in the whole wide world knows how to give love properly except Greg Baer and his appointed few). Once we have 'been loved' properly for some time we will then be allowed to give our love to others. This could take years. Getting Loved means having a special coach (known as a daddy or a mummy) who you have regular contact with and who you tell the truth about your thoughts, behaviours and everything to, and they will not shame you for your bad stuff but instead they will 'accept' you, which means 'love you'. Every time you are stressed or anxious or have related badly or had a bad row or something, you get a call arranged with your coach who will 'love you'. This is called 'Getting Loved'. This process goes on and supposedly over time you will fill up with love and one day be able to give your love to others - but only when you are told to!

The other major thing Greg says is that every single person in the whole world is suffering from a condition that he has invented, which he calls PCSD, or Post-Childhood-Stress-Disorder. Yes. Everyone in the world. It is not recognised as a psychological disorder, and Greg admits it never will be. This disorder which RealLove says 'EVERYONE HAS' is due to our parents not loving us properly when we were raised. Despite how much love exists in families and between people, RealLove and Greg state emphatically that this is NOT real or genuine love and that it is only conditional love. So your son will have been told this several times until he eventually gave in and believed it. I repeat - everyone not doing RealLove is not really doing love properly, is not genuine with their love, and is only loving conditionally. No one in the world knows how to love properly - only RealLove knows the answers to how to love properly. This is what has been drummed into him. The focus is on the negative stuff from childhood and life - there no emphasis or talk about the positive stuff at all. That is completely overlooked. So, while he may have defended himself many a time that the love in his family was real and genuine, you can bet your bottom dollar that the people in the group will have used many a very distorted analogy or metaphor to convince him that he has not been loved at all. They are very good at using what is called the 'double-bind' which is so confusing, especially if you have already been fooled with several analogies and metaphors and are still trying to process them. When you add a double-bind on top it then sounds like the RealLove folk have some amazing knowledge about all this love stuff, and you are just ignorant because you can't work it out for yourself. It is however, total trickery, and designed to confuse the person. They also use a staring technique as well (there is information about this somewhere else on this site). Used with all the other verbal techniques it is very intimidating (as it is supposed to be) and totally shuts your mind down as to being able to respond and defend yourself appropriately. Clever.

So, after what is known as a 'slow poach' where the person will attend groups and read books, maybe watch some Greg videos and hang around with group people, the person will eventually submit to being wrong and that RealLove is what they really need. They know exactly what methods to use to wear you down. If he decides to go the whole way he'll end up having what is called an 'Intervention'. A weekend long retreat to be fully psychologically profiled and every deep wound and negative aspect of life is drawn out. This is totally unnecessary for what is sold as 'life coaching' to learn how to be unconditionally loving. Totally wrong! Many times what this process does is to be a 're-birthing process' for the person. To be born again. Yes. Reborn. So, as Greg says, we are all only 2 or 3 years old emotionally. None of us has grown up emotionally and we are all stuck - therefore needing RealLove to free us, to fix us. This often involves the person getting naked (like a baby being born) and to lie in the arms of the coach and be nursed, and loved and kissed relentlessly like a newborn baby. This lying in the arms of another and being a baby is called 'holding' and is done in groups a lot. At this point in the weekend retreat the person will choose new parents. Yes! New parents. They will select a new daddy and a new mummy or just one or the other, and this new parent will parent them properly. As the new parent the daddy/mummy (aka coach) will be there for them and take on the role of parent and thus parent the person properly through the childhood they should have had while in adulthood. Being childish and acting childlike is promoted. Most people doing RealLove do actually 'believe' that they are only 2 years old. Thus, by choosing new parents the person will reject their true parents - even those still living. So, in answer to your question NHFNP what has happened to your son in rejecting his family is definitely part of the process of RealLove.

And yes, there is some useful bits in the books, but they are mostly written in a thought-reform style to mould your mind into believing that RealLove and unconditional love are actually one and the same thing. Which of course, they are not. Greg also believes that the whole world, basically everyone not doing RealLove is insane. The coaches are NOT trained to do psychological work, and this is exactly what they are doing. They say they are not, but they are. I am worried for those who fall into this organisation who need to have professional help, because a lot of damage can be done in the wrong hands. But RealLove clings to the weak and vulnerable because they make the best adherents who will spread the RealLove message far and wide (in total ignorance of course). Too much personal information is shared with people, and this breaches all forms of professional practice. The truth telling in groups and with coaches is healthy in some respects, but does not serve to heal people in the way RealLove believes it will. Only proper help will do that.

I am glad a health professional has seen what RealLove can do to a person. I have beaten my head against a wall trying to get people to see RealLove for what it really is - a cult organisation using mass thought-reform techniques to coerce people into submitting to one mans crazy ideology. RealLove at some point will tell persons to go out and 'find a religion' as another form of true unconditional love. But only when they have received the real thing first - as in, been totally submissive to the RealLove process and 'been loved' properly by a daddy or mummy for a long period of time and are then deemed to have the ability to love properly. If you have a religion before you are told to get one, then it is not real and never was. Most people will not turn to their family faith tradition but instead will 'find' Mormonism. Why? Because that is Greg's faith, and he is high up in his church and is idolised by people doing RealLove. Also, many of the principles of Mormonism are written into the principles for being unconditionally loving that Greg has designed. Therefore, it goes without saying that the principles of Mormonism align the most with RealLove. Interestingly, if you are receiving coaching (which would only last for a short period and come to a conclusion) then it should not matter which religion you choose and whether or not it aligned with the principles of a coaching program. After all, the coaching program would only be a very short part of your life, just a passing moment, so why would you choose something to align with a coaching program? Clearly, we wouldn't. But RealLove is not a coaching program like it sells itself to be, so being a Mormon takes on a new meaning. Most people have turned to Mormonism.

Like you, I too have grave reservations about Greg's story. There are errors. I have felt that although he 'tried' all the conventional mental health treatments as well as hypnotherapy, they must have worked because you cannot just invent a psychological program like he has while you are broken. That is impossible - I know, I have been there in that dark place. You have to be well and truly healed and a lot more whole before you are remotely capable of just reading, let alone studying! In reading several books about cults I can see that he fits the profile perfectly for being a sociopath, with borderline narcissistic tendencies. Everything fits. Everything is perfect textbook. The sad thing is, that no one doing RealLove can see this or wants to believe it, so they shut their eyes to it. They think that I am the insane one, that I am hurt and desperate. I have been told countless time that I 'need a daddy' that I need to 'be loved' that I need 'to do RealLove' and that if I don't then I will be alone for the rest of my life, I will never be loved properly by anyone, I will only attract and repeat the bad relationships of the past. Yet I stand my ground every time. RealLove is NOT the answer and is fatally flawed.

There is this focus on all things negative and dark. Too much judgement, labelling and analysis of self and everyone and every interaction. There is complete dependence and/or co-dependence on the daddy/mummy to love them - instead of accepting any true, genuine and actual unconditional love right in front of their eyes RL people will reject it as being only conditional and false, so instead will save up their hurt and their stresses for a group session in order to jump into the lap of a coach and be like a baby. The real world is seen as conditional, fake, false and unreal while RL is safe, true and real. Thus is created the 'them-and-us' mentality which divides people from their families and friends. Greg, and coaches also split up couples and marriages as well. Every part of people's lives is managed by their coaches. However, very cleverly, there is anti-litigation clauses in everything. This organisation promotes and gets people to believe that everything they are doing is their own choice, that the person chose what to do at every step of the way. Clever. But if you don't follow what daddy says, then you are not only 'not taking RealLove seriously' which means that RL cannot help you if you don't do what it says to do, or that you are 'not taking your self seriously' and clearly don't want to be a better person at all. However, in the terms of agreement there is a clause which states that RealLove takes no responsibility whatsoever for anything said, advised, or information given by a coach upon which the person acts on. Like I said, clever. The terms also state that coaches will use any and all types of resources to help their clients - yet they don't. What is recommended is a complete and utter immersion into RealLove. We're talking reading all the books, not just once. Going to groups regularly. Having a coach and having calls regularly and seeing the coach for one-to-one's when you can. Watching Greg chat videos as much as you can. Joining in the nightly telephone conference calls. Joining up for the courses and seminars. Joining the 12-month program. Having an intervention. All this costs thousands and will go on for many years. This is not coaching. All this stuff is Greg Baer's RL principles churned over and over and over so that the person becomes totally embroiled in it. They gradually see the world outside of RealLove as bad and uncomfortable as well as all the people in it as bad and unloving while RealLove becomes their safe haven where they can be truly their self. This is not teaching unconditional love by any stretch of the imagination. It is totally unhealthy.

Yes, thank you for noticing all the constant contradictions too! I am so glad it is not just me. This is a dark and sinister organisation not only preying on people's vulnerabilities but destroying relationships and families and even distorting the viewpoints and changing the perspectives of well rounded individuals.

I don't know how to get people out of this, I really don't. I have tried, but I only get verbally attacked in the process. It is difficult to get them out because it is drummed into them that anyone outside of RealLove does not have their best interests at heart. That they have conditional motives and don't really love you, they people are just saying it. I really feel for you. I also can't believe that this sort of thing is happening right in front of our eyes.

I really wish I could help, but I am totally flummoxed myself as to what to do.

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: NHFNP ()
Date: December 27, 2017 09:51AM

Dear Dingo,

Thank you so much for your very generous response. Everything you wrote I have seen in my son. The interesting thing is that I would not have thought of him as an emotionally needy, weak, or lonely individual. He was very loved, involved in family. We talked if not daily at least multiple times a week. He comes from a very strong marriage oriented family where his dad and I have been married for almost 30 years. However I will say he is a very tender hearted individual who fell very much in love with a young girl whose parents recently divorced and whose life was turned totally upside down by this event. Her mother spent an entire twenty plus years in a failing marriage that she never should have started to begin with, then when that finally ended because her husband left for another woman, she began searching for something and found RL. She then infected her daughter, who in turn infected my son and has devastated our family.

I appreciate all the details you included. This is extremely troubling and I have to say that I know some Mormons and have asked them what they think of this and they are genuinely shocked, however religion is not important because this crosses all religions and is a respector of no one. They will destroy you and your family regardless of religion! My remaining family has decided to join our efforts to make it our lives work to bring our son back no matter what it takes! When we do, I will share my experience! Family is the most important thing I have on earth and I will be darned if a two-bit PhD is going to ruin what I sacrificed my entire life to create and maintain!

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: DINGO ()
Date: December 27, 2017 06:59PM

NHFNP,

I will be most interested to hear about how you manage to get your son back into the real world.

Some more points to note. The title, Dr Greg Baer refers to his being an eye surgeon. That's all. He is not qualified in psychology - he just read a lot about it and formed his own conclusions.

Further, Greg, and RealLove do not believe in psychotherapy, psychiatry, psychological counselling or hypnotherapy. These are all, apparently, useless and a waste of time and are all poo-pood. Only, and ONLY, RealLove will work to heal people of all the wounds of their life. These wounds are all to do with out not being loved properly in childhood and therefore all our relating in our adult lives is as a consequence of our poor childhoods. This lack of love and being able to give and receive unconditional love properly is the problem. Which only RealLove can solve - thereby any emotional problems or wounds in our lives are all to do with love. However, while they state in their terms of agreement that RealLove should not be used as a substitute for genuine mental health problems, they do actually love to work with people who are genuinely needing professional help. I assume that they are unable (which they are) to work with severe clinical conditions.

However, if you ARE or believe you are in a loving relationship and family, and are feeling happy, content, at peace etc. apparently you are being FAKE. Because, guess what? We are ALL suffering from PCSD therefore we are all just hiding this this fact and leading a life of pretending to love and be loved. I almost got sucked in. Almost. I have a very strong loving relationship with my father and it just troubled me how much they kept telling me that my relationship with and love for my father was false. That he didn't really love me. That I didn't really love him. That what was going on was that we were trying to be responsible for each other's happiness. Which is wrong. The arguments I have had trying to explain that they were wrong just wore me down over time. I do not, and will not, replace my father with a fake daddy. I have no issues and are indeed happy and content. I don't need RealLove to fix me and are insulted that they keep telling me that I am unloving and need to learn to be unconditionally loving. I can see how your son would have been worn down over time - even though he is from a loving family. They would have told him, like they told me (and still do) to 'stop believing the lies'. The lies are that your family loves you, that you love your family etc. We have to be reborn all over again, learn to do things properly (ie the RealLove way) and then we'll be allowed to go out into the big wide world and love properly. However, I suspect that there will be no end to learning how to love properly.

From what I have seen the concept of emotional wounds in need of healing and our endless journey of learning through life, are morphed into one. Therefore, in the RealLove world nothing actually heals. The learning how to be loving takes your whole lifetime because you are constantly learning. There is no end. The arguments I have had to try to explain that we do heal our emotional hurts, but our life is full of obstacles and lessons just gets dismissed as stupid.

When going to groups and hanging out with and listening to other people in RealLove your son would not only have been convinced his whole life is a lie and that he does not know what love is or looks like, but he will also have been 'LOVE BOMBED'. This is common for cults. Everyone will be so sickly over the top sweet and loving that he would have been overwhelmed by this. Lots of new friends all clamboring to make friends with him. Seeing all this seemingly outward sense of everyone in RealLove looking like they are loved up and loving and wonderful would make him doubt his own loving environment. He would look at these people who 'seem' so loving, lovable and adorable that he might think that this is 'real' 'love' when in fact it is a ploy to make RealLove look extraordinarily loving. I laugh as I see RL people finding it hard to be as loving as they once were to me, seeing as I have openly rejected it.

The 'double-bind' is used a lot, which confuses people. This is where they will have distorted what he has already experienced in his life and gradually led him to believe his whole life until finding RealLove was a complete lie. They also distort analogies and metaphors a lot too - taking one's we all know and understand, and distorting them to be something else that is more in line with RealLove than what they have believed those statements to mean. The long staring into the eyes will put anyone off of any form of critical and collective thought. Greg says that people don't take the time to really look into each others eyes and 'see' the person, the soul. And yes, that is true to a point. However, what RealLove do with the staring is what all cults do, and that is to close down our ability to think and respond to false data.

Your son will have been told over and over that he needs to surrender his fake self (the whole of his life so far) and find out who he really is, his authentic and true self. In fact, this system does nothing whatsoever to accomplish this. As you have read, the contradictions are rife in all the materials, and while they say they are helping you to find your true self, in fact they are helping you to lose who you really are. Then they, RealLove, will rebuild you into a new person. This is psychologically irresponsible and enormously damaging to people. RealLove wants to make it 'look' like they are helping you, saving you, and making you better. When in fact they are not doing this at all. A true life counsellor or mental health therapist will take things from where you are, conserve the real you and build on it, while losing the false and healing the wounds. By pulling you apart and stripping you away to nothing they keep telling you that this is for your benefit, it is loving you although you can't see it. That if you stop then you will not heal and will just go back to your miserable life and never find unconditional love. So people keep going along with it not realising they are being stripped apart, and will then be rebuilt. Every so often there will be a little bit of improvement thrown in, just to make people believe that this RealLove stuff is really working! To keep the faith (and to keep a customer). This is deep psychology work and in the professional sector none of what happens in RealLove would ever be allowed to happen.

Your son will have been told over and over that you don't really love him. That you are only loving him out of duty - because you are a parent. You are only loving him by trying to be responsible for his happiness etc... This is something else so incredibly distorted and to watch out for. We all know that no one is responsible for our own inner happiness - only we alone can do that. However, that does not mean we cannot care for people, show kindness, compassion, love, support, encouragement, praise etc.. The difficult thing is that this is taken to the extreme so that any act of kindness is taken wrongly as people trying to interfere with trying to make them happy. Everything. They will keep saying 'You are not responsible for my happiness'. So if you are just being you, doing something naturally it will be taken out of context and perceived as you trying to make them happy against their will and because you feel it is your duty or obligation or responsibility. RealLove has distorted this so much that if you are not in RealLove then every action or word spoken is taken incorrectly - we are therefore not being genuine at all and are only doing what we do or say out of obligation to try to get them to love us more. In fact, it is quite unloving in many respects when they fail to do kind or caring acts in ways that they used to, stating that 'this is not my responsibility' 'it is not my responsibility to make you/them happy'. This is saying that being kind, caring, compassionate etc. is wrong!! Everything has been so distorted and yet no one can see it. The one's with the problem are the one's not doing RealLove.

Lastly, when they have a daddy/mummy that they phone when they are thinking bad stuff or just had an argument or a disagreement with an outsider etc. they will sound off to their daddy about it. The daddy will love them and not tell them off about it, not correct them or help them to see both sides of the story. Instead the daddy will listen (without judging them, which is good) and will then tell them that they are still lovable, that they are so loved, that they are adorable, that they are enough, they are still wonderful etc.. They might then go to the secret page on facebook and share their issue on this public forum and in so doing will get dozens of people love-bombing them back with 'still lovable' 'You're adorable' 'still wonderful' 'Truth > Seen > Accepted > Loved'. Not messages to help them truly work through what happened at all (that is moderated and removed). Only these expressions. This will, apparently, make the person 'feel loved and accepted'. This is helping to feel loved properly, to accept love in. Empty words and expressions from a whole load of people you've never met. So between the call and being told you are loved, and social media messages telling you you are still loved the person learns nothing. This is sort of like a 'confession booth'. Just tell your bad stuff, it gets accepted and that's it - it goes away. And this is called being loved. The non-RealLove way would be to talk it through and come to some clarity - learn where you went wrong, learn about the other persons reactions etc etc etc. and take it from there. A life lesson from an interaction or situation. Instead it just creates a bigger them-and-us divide (common to cults) and promotes bad relating with outsiders (where they are just seen and accepted and loved by RL people, but don't learn anything) as opposed to working though things with people in the room with you, who know you very well and want to help you work through stuff, learn and be empowered to be a better soul. All this RealLove philosophy is total madness.

I am in the UK, I am not sure where you are, but I would love to know how you get your son out of this crazy organisation. I hope RealLove comes to an end soon, and all those people sucked into it are released to live their lives properly and find true and genuine love in their life. My goal now is to start a support group/s to help people who have left a cult organisation understand the experience, heal, and learn to become whole again. This is both organisations like this one as well as well know religious cults like the JW's and LDS etc..

Good luck - let us know how you go.

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Some reviews on Amazon by persons who did Real Love course
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 27, 2017 10:36PM

[www.amazon.com]

These are reviews from persons who state they took a Real Love course with Baer
or were counseled by a Real Love coach.


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1.0 out of 5 starsquestion deeply.
Bymel bellon March 23, 2014

I've done a lot of self-study and read spiritual works extensively. I read his book until I took his real love course. while the peer counselors are supportive and loving and for many people the group/individual work was very cathartic & healing (seemingly), when i went up for my time with him, my hug & talk where i sit in his lap like a child and talk about how i wasn't REAL LOVED as a child....which i have mixed feelings about, he said something that i just can't get past. Greg said "you know i could crush you emotionally if i wanted to?" I said "i know but i trust you not to." you are very vulnerable in his hugging holding process. My thinking brain took over after that...nothing REAL LOVING about his statement. Actually, very EGO driven, POWER oriented...perhaps along the lines of sociopath? There is something deeply manipulative about his statement to me. I'm more commenting on his philosophy in the books, than the book itself...and I've had 6 months to process this. He is not a guru of higher thought that I want to follow.

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Amazon Customer9 months agoIn reply toan earlier postReport abuse
The two are inseparable, because the book tells you to go to his website, attend his seminars, and all his other propaganda.

Amazon Customer9 months agoReport abuse
Need to check out this link:
[forum.culteducation.com]

mel bell10 months ago (Edited)In reply toan earlier postReport abuse
I'm the original author of the review, the review is about the book and the source, i'm not commenting on timely delivery method...and beyond the book are the actions/behaviors that give relevant credibility to the book. i have the perspective of both. I have the responsibility to give my experience. Love the ideology w the book, the real experience...ok, well pragmatically speaking, the experience with him killed the message.. i would add that he brought me to the stage after a convo with one of his phoenix top supporters/counselors...i saw her in the back of the room subtly motioning which people to bring up to stage ( i was near the back). My background is that of a master's level medical professional with a strong psycho-social educational/practical emphasis. The energetic presence of his impressive and seemingly "together" and "well to do" followers moved many toward his message and further coaching or paid coaching time. I would add, there was an Indian woman who went thru his 2-3 day intensive who reported that she really had a break through. I add this bc her culture probably limited her value as a woman, from an American perspective. However, bc you are not valued in one culture, does not mean to find an American Jesus father figure type...but it really helped her. I will also add, that i was very broken at that time having just divorced (HCD) and wrote the review 6 months later, so i HAD PROCESSED MY EXPERIENCE FULLY. From a human perspective, many of us have never been held with love, or listened to with love in the listener's heart. Being shown love unconditionally is probably the biggest breakthrough for many people.

superfreakster1 year agoReport abuse
This review section is about the book not the seminars.

Poppy1 year agoReport abuse
I agree with Mel Bel. The "coaching" appears to be a classic abuse cycle and I recommend checking out cult reporting websites so you know what risks you are choosing to take if you are considering getting involved before your finances and your self esteem are hit. Look at some domestic violence and abuse sites for descriptions and compare with what happens in this scheme. I believe most of the coaches other than Greg & Pete in UK are co-dependent puppets gas-lighted by them into believing in their co-dependency creating scheme.

Greg wrote another book which he described verbally as his life story. In it he describes rolling a large boulder at a building where people gather. He also claims to have operated on people whilst taking drugs and appears totally unconcerned about those facts. I think these actions fit the mold of those personalities who are ruthless and have no conscience or concern for the people they use to their own ends.

I found Greg rude, arrogant, manipulative and egocentric and he only delivers to the point where the money runs out. I think Greg and Pete are preying on vulnerable and unhappy people using them for narcissistic supply. In other circles this is called 'emotional abuse.' Telling 'truths' amounts to extracting information for later use. I would read some books about cults, co-dependency and personality disorders before anything written by this author and his associates.

Ria1 year agoReport abuse
ys I agree -- Greg is seemingly into power and money and maybe he has convinced himself he is into real love ?-- anyway, very simply "It's not what people say' it's how you feel around them' if you felt uncomfortable then he's not for you! I know people that did feel comfortable on his lap! each to their own - but for me it smacks of cult and control and that's the opposite of real love!
and also, his so called coaches, most have no background on therapy - and they apparently tell you what to think and how to behave! again very controlling and take power from the vulnerable!- so it would attract a lot of loners and people with "i don't belong injunctions' (TA) and perfectionists -- well, each to his own - life is about experiences - just don't sell your soul to some!

mel bell1 year ago (Edited)In reply toan earlier postReport abuse
We have the key for deep healing within us....and true SELF LOVE. In my opinion, Greg is a false prophet with the "Jesus complex" to be able to lay his hands on to "heal". Real love comes from self love with a grounded sense self, and self compassion.

Ria2 years agoIn reply toan earlier postReport abuse
I agree with you -- the system is flawed and gets people hooked in by saying they can only get love from others ie the system very cult like-- i know a few who are! and shelling out $$$ to keep GB in luxury lifestyle!

soundproofme2 years agoReport abuse
Thanks for sharing your experience, Mel, it means a lot :)

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1.0 out of 5 starsNo training... shakey advice
ByFrida Kon January 8, 2014
Format: Paperback

I loved the books, but when I met the man, he was a total flake. His idea of counseling was that I had to sit on his lap, call him daddy, and repeat after him that I loved him and trusted him. This was AFTER he got $5000 cash deposited into his bank. If you had so much as a question, the session was over, he took the money, and we were done. He has a million dollar house, swimming pool and lake that all of us fools are funding. Real love was a an expensive mistake.... a real sad joke.

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Texas Wren3 months agoReport abuse
Thank you for commenting on this. I AM credentialed as a counselor and had a client who mentioned going to this retreat. She described the author as critical on the follow-up Skype sessions they had. I have investigated and determined that he has no training. Being an MD does not qualify you to practice psychotherapy thinly veiled as coaching.

ABR2 years agoReport abuse
Went there myself and felt the same. Save your money...don't buy the book nor go to his seminars. He truly has the MD = GOD complex!

soundproofme2 years ago (Edited)Report abuse
Thanks for your review, this guy sounds like a freak.... needless to say I won't be buying the book!
Leave a reply

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.0 out of 5 starsTrue Real Love should not be a money business
ByLolaveneziaon December 26, 2012
Format: Paperback

I live in Europe and I was advised to read this book by a colleague, a fervent fan of Dr Baer. The reading is easy, the topic well explained, everything seems easy to understand. However there starts the problem: Dr Baer's wiew is one-way and simplistic: you apply his technique and you're promised to find real love. You don't and you're doomed (according to his sayings). Not really balanced thinking.

But I wanted to know more about it, and I was advised by Dr Baer himself to follow 2 days individual seminar with him in the US, in order to help me be 'really loved' for the very first time in my life. However the costs, several thousands dollars for a 2 days 'intervention', as it is called, were too expensive for me. I had just discovered that, for some people, real love is not free of charge, and represents a huge business machine. I was then oriented to dr Baer's "certified real love coach" (ha!) in the UK, where i went for a 2 days individual face to face seminar. The price was still substantially high, but i was ready to try it for the better, or for the worse. During the session the coach tells you THE truth about yourself (this is pretty scary how some people think there is only one truth - theirs)and you finally end up feeling a hint of real love at the end of the seminar.

It is just after that that the worse occurs when, during follow up telconfs, you're "lovingly advised" to leave your loved ones and to rely exclusively on the real love of the coach himself, and of Greg Baer's. This is the 'ouch' part. You're 'lovingly' proposed to do more costly seminars. I have also been further requested to provide a testimonial for their marketing brochure. This was too extreme and sectarist for me. This is the reason for this factualm testimonial. I still believe real love should not be marketed. Look around you and you will see love for free in a child's smile. We all know true real lovers (Mother theresa, sister emmanuelle, etc) and they are non profit people. Exactly the contrary of the author of this book.
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Joshuaad1 year agoReport abuse
The idea that love and spirituality are not compatible with business, money and charging for services and seminars is absolutely misguided and false.

mel bell1 year agoReport abuse
I posted a review earlier...I would add, the folks who went to the intensive private 2 day...claimed it really worked for them...the was a sense about them of having been brainwashed, perhaps they needed that to heal.

The real love facilitators are typically not trained counsellors, tho they are being paid to coach other people, and they've got a card. Their training or background is not typically in the mental health field...to deal with the more complexmental health disorders.

RD1 year agoReport abuse
If coaching is free, there is no value to most people.When we spend money, we tend to take things seriously. This is human psychology. Also, we are willing to spend a lot of money on vacations, cars etc., but complain about spending on something that changes our lives' for good. Most of us as parents have no clue what unconditional love means and how to raise children. We can choose to complain about anything in life OR learn something from experienced people to become a better.

Ria2 years agoReport abuse
I just posted one myself -- it's flawed in many ways and an ideology that people can't sustain! it will attract people who are vulnerable. The ideas are all from basic therapies , like TA - 12 steps etc. so that will make sense to many - but people will get hooked in by thinking they can only seek love outside themselves always being told off they aren't 'in real love' -- find it in yourself through quiet meditation and heal your heart in some good trusted therapies like 'transpersonal' TA gestalt etc. where they give you 'tools' to help yourself- not rescue you like a lost baby !

Ria2 years ago In reply toan earlier postReport abuse

have a look at this site: [forum.culteducation.com]

a warning to this cult like system !

1.0 out of 5 starsTerrible book
ByMiguel Angel Gonzalezon July 27, 2016

Please do not read this book unless you want to break up with your partner. Leaving you partner is very encouraged in this book. I am an honest person and have a great capacity of loving unconditionally. But will never accept my husband flirting and looking at other women all the time, and having close emotional relationships with other women. We were working on our issues and he was compromising, but when he read this book, he said that I was jealous and that I did not accept him unconditionally. I know I am better off, but for God Sake's be more clear about what a wise woman is, and about compromise and sacrifice in a relationship. If a conduct is hurtful and disrespectful I believe partners should compromise. I am telling the truth, I threw this book away, along with me relationship. Thank you!!!

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1.0 out of 5 starsDo not buy this book
ByABRon January 30, 2013
Format: Paperback|Verified Purchase

Sad, but I initally bought this book thinking it would help my marriage. I read it and was impressed and joined a Real Love group which I attended for almost a year, but soon realized that people were dropping out like flies. Gossip runs rampant in the Real Love Groups. His "finding a wise person" is just not a help. He's asking other people to love you when you make a mistake, which doesn't work.....and the one you want to love you is your spouse when you make a mistake. I actually met Dr. Baer and counseled with him along with my wife, and when I wasn't doing what he thought I should be doing he turned on me and started agreeing with my wife. It got to the point one time where he was at my house and was telling my wife that he was going to kick me out of my own house when I got home!

Unfortunately, he's an ophthalmologist (MD) and has the MD=God thought.....he thinks because he has MD after his name that he is now a trained marriage counselor and psychologist/psychiatrist.

His wife is a gossip and talks bad about people behind their backs....especially people who work in the Real Love camp. How's that for example.

I've also read several books that were written well before Dr. Baer wrote Real Love that are eeringly similar....sad what people will do to make a buck after they become drug addicts.

Don't waste your money. Go for something that is written by a trained marriage counselor or trained psychologist/psychologist. Go read the scriptures.....that's where you'll find how to really love people and yourself!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2017 10:48PM by corboy.

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Re: Some reviews on Amazon by persons who did Real Love course
Posted by: DINGO ()
Date: December 28, 2017 01:45AM

Thank you Corboy,

These reviews totally validate ALL of my experiences with RealLove and RealLove people. This is confirmation for me personally that I was right all along and that I am not this insane person I am being made out to be. I have had such a struggle to reject being pulled in to do RealLove and boy am I thankful that I stood up to it. It has been really stressful and I have been made to feel awfully bad about myself and my future life, but I just 'knew' deep down that I was right. And... the more people coming forward on this site also provide that confirmation too.

I hope that this organisation comes to an end soon and is exposed for what it is. I am completely at awe as to how it managed to become a Charity Organisation in both the USA and the UK. This is not a charity as it does no charity work. It is not life coaching as the methods used as not coaching methods. It is doing dangerous psychological work, which it professes it does not do and distinctly rejects as being a viable form of treatment for anyone. It is a cult and specialises in thought-reform and control of people's minds.

Thank you.

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Re: Some reviews on Amazon by persons who did Real Love course
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 30, 2017 01:58AM

Amazon USA and Amazon UK are valuable for the researcher.

Something that first gets popular in the USA will have many more
reviews on Amazon USA than on Amazon UK.

So, anything newly arrived in the UK and ANZAC from the United States;
go look at the reviews on Amazon dot com, which is the Amazon USA portal.

Look up both, as they are different.

And, text for Amazon reviews does not appear to show up via Google searching.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2017 02:03AM by corboy.

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: ANON541 ()
Date: January 01, 2018 06:29PM

Dingo, you said Greg Baer has borderline narcissistic tendencies.

This man is full on NPD [narcissistic personality disorder].

I will give you an example.

1. "Reallove" is copyrighted and solely owned by Greg Baer.
2. "Everything is about "reallove".

In other words everything is about Greg Baer. Only a full on NPD could come out with something like this. Just one example of many, many. This is how NPD works.
Identify with something great, become synonymous with that and have the whole world revolve around you.

To an NPD, the world should revolve around them. They often do have great ideas and great projects but something always feels off when an NPD does it.

.

.

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: DINGO ()
Date: January 06, 2018 02:55AM

Apparently all this 'unconditional love' that is traded for money really is REAL. It's a trade. We all know that therefore it cannot be unconditional because the conditions underpinning this trade is the transference of money from one person to another for the act of 'getting loved'. But it is 'real' and 'unconditional' love that is being given because the Baer's in the US and the Uglow's in the UK have given up their day jobs to exclusively love people all day. They could all train as coaches counsellors and/or therapists and get qualified and earn a living loving people in the RealLove way just like the specially qualified and approved coaches are by Greg. Yet no. They are dedicating their lives to giving love - which they are not doing for money. No you see because the money bit is for their time. But if loving like anything else is going to take time to accomplish then the act of loving and the use of time to do this are done hand in hand - one with the other. So there HAS been a trade off. All the charity that is collected the coerced donations to the RealLove Foundation etc. are to financially support the Baer's and the Uglow's. They can keep saying that it is all unconditional but it is not.

Let's note the meaning of the word 'unconditional' which states that "Something that is unconditional is done or given to someone freely without anything in return". Like the rest of the so called "insane" world that Greg and RealLovers call the people not doing RealLove we all do love naturally authentically spontaneously and are genuinely inspired in a moment or compelled to do acts of love (in all the different ways there are too) often and mostly without thinking about it. THAT is unconditional love. The act of freely expressing it without knowing it - just doing it. Not thinking about it. Just doing it. And certainly not making sure that you are abiding by a set of principles devised by someone because that someone said "this is how you do it this is the way to do and be unconditionally loving". Bullshit. It happens naturally. Granted there are people who are going through bad days or having a bad period in their life are ordinarily grumpy or angry or whatever but that does not tar every single person as doing it all wrong. People in RealLove will never get it. That 'they' themselves are the worst critics and judges of everyone else and are separating themselves from the whole of what their life is providing them merely because of what one man says. That is one of the differences between cults and other organisations teaching the same ideals. No one else says it is our way or the highway only cults do that. Only cults say that their way is the right and only way and that everyone else is wrong. Only cults separate and divide society into the 'them and us' mindset.

Being loving or selling your unconditional love as some form of day job (for money from a fake charity) is a truly insane concept. These people are NOT being truly unconditionally loving at all. If they were they would be doing what scores of people do all over the world and work a day job like the rest of us (in order to pay our way) and in our own 'free time' give that love away for nothing. This is done in volunteering groups and with organisations like the Samaritans and countless others. People give their free time outside of their work and family commitments to dedicate time to providing the love that is needed in the world. Then genuine article and not in exchange for money.

I am shocked at how many times RL people and certainly in Greg's books the concept of love and unconditional love is perceived and spoken about as being a 'commodity' which is an insult and a direct exploitation of perfect love. Love is not a commodity. One book says "Where do you get unconditional love?" and the answer Greg gives is "From those who already have it!". But love is not a commodity not a possession not a thing to be traded. In its true spontaneous divinely inspired form no one not a single person is thinking about whether or not they should give love at that moment in case their bucket runs out. NEVER. Because we are never empty of love. Such an insane concept - but so many people get sucked in. And once they are truly brainwashed they have no idea what crap they are saying. They just keep talking shit. All this claptrap about "You can only be unconditionally loving if you are doing RealLove" Rubbish.

The concept of Greg having been given RealLove from God. Yeah right! God would write diatribe that promotes an organisation to make a profit out of selling so-called unconditional love. That people need to seek it to get it - when they are already full of love and always will be. It is us that chooses not to give our love - we are never empty. Would anyone's God (of any faith group or religion) really accept statements such as this "RealLove (copyright trademark registered - principles as devised by Greg Baer) is the only thing that will make you genuinely happy" "Without RealLove (copyright trademark registered - principles devised by Greg Baer) sex will only lead us away from feeling unconditionally loved". So outsiders are told that every act of love that we naturally express - a touch - a glance - a hug - helping - sharing - gentle or supportive words - acts of service - apologies - smiles - gifts - laughter - acts of kindness - showing compassion - expressing empathy - etc is all fake and conditional. We ALL need to have RL in our lives and learn to be loved first in order to be capable of doing all of this. And what's Greg's big secret - its just sharing all aspects about who you are and what you've done!! Truths - lies - needs - flaws - strengths - weaknesses - fears etc.. and we all do this anyway!! Maybe some people just need to do more of it.

Nothing Greg has written in his books is new. He has just invented a money making scheme to feed off of vulnerable people and get all his financial needs taken care of without doing much (he even has pages set up to raise money for his medical expenses!). Being loving is NOT a job. We can all do this every minute of every day of our entire lives. No one needs to make a job of it. He gives no credit to any of the sources which he has exploited. And none of his broad sweeping claims can be confirmed.

Having read several books on cults now - RealLove most definitely IS A CULT.

People doing RealLove fully believe that people will come out of this cult a better person. Yet as all the researchers exit counsellors and everyone who has worked with cult organisations knows - no one comes out happy and whole and feeling great. They all need a huge amount of work to get their minds back. This makes me so sad indeed - seeing and hearing people that are so far gone that they have no idea what rubbish they are saying and what they are defending. It breaks my heart to have conversations with people with whom you cannot get through to. To see people who are too frightened and fearful of having relations with their own family or with anyone not doing RealLove - only people doing RL are worthy of being accepted as a human being everyone else is a nothing and worthless to them. If only I could record what I hear so I could play it back in the future. If only people who eventually leave cults and start a healing journey could hear their own rubbish and realise how very very very deceptively easy it is to manipulate the mind into believing anything. To believe such lies and claptrap. Heartbreaking and what true waste of people's lives. All the people on this message thread and the other one on this site that have come forward about what has happened to their loved one's at the hands of RealLove breaks my heart. There are evil doings going on in this world thanks to sociopaths and narcissistic personalities.

I hope more people keep coming forward and this cult is exposed one day.

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