kdag,

You said:
"... during a time of crisis is not the best time to wax philosophical."

I disagree. If someone is in emotional pain, if they are not going to look at what they are doing to cause it and instead reach for the bottle, or a reallove member to love them, then they simply keep the loop going; so yes a crisis is the best time for discovery.

Regarding what I said:

"...if I create these negative feelings toward others I now put myself in need of another cult to help me get rid of those negative feelings."

If you read that in context you know I am saying as I did in the previous paragraph that creating negative feelings puts us in a position to use alcohol, drugs, counseling, approval, cults and who knows what else to soothe our negative feelings. I am not saying any of these things are wrong. I am saying you are free of them if you quit judging good and bad, allow everything to be, and discriminate true from false in a friendly positive manner. :)

JEESH!!! This is a perfect example of what they do in LGATS. They just plain wear people down, even if their arguments are bunk.

ANON541 wrote:

" "kdag, You said:

"... during a time of crisis is not the best time to wax philosophical."

I disagree. If someone is in emotional pain, if they are not going to look at what they are doing to cause it and instead reach for the bottle, or a reallove member to love them, then they simply keep the loop going; so yes a crisis is the best time for discovery."

[Well okay then. If you have a heart attack, let's see you
1.) Not take any aspirin,
2) Not call an ambulance or go to the hospital.
I want you to just sit there and reflect on what your diet has been over the past few years. (I agree that you should do that - just not at that moment). If you survive, you can tell me how that went.

The thing is, LGATs would LOVE to have you believe this sophistry, because this is when they try to "coach" you. During said coaching, they try to extract more personal information, so they can play more mind games with you later. During this time, you are also more susceptible to taking on their doctrine/quasi-solutions.]

Then ANON541 wrote:

"Regarding what I said:

"...if I create these negative feelings toward others I now put myself in need of another cult to help me get rid of those negative feelings."

"If you read that in context you know I am saying as I did in the previous paragraph that creating negative feelings puts us in a position to use alcohol, drugs, counseling, approval, cults and who knows what else to soothe our negative feelings. I am not saying any of these things are wrong. I am saying you are free of them if you quit judging good and bad, allow everything to be, and discriminate true from false in a friendly positive manner. :)"

[Oh yeah, if we have a broken arm, we don't want to create any negative thoughts around that, or think of it as "bad." If we just change the wording, we will be pain-free. Same as if we get robbed or conned. We can just call it something else, and that will change reality - until the bills are due and we can't pay them.

This part, in particular, is where you go cock-eyed:

"...creating negative feelings puts us in a position to use alcohol, drugs, counseling, approval, cults and who knows what else to soothe our negative feelings."

You threw counseling in with alcohol, drugs and cults. Counseling, (with a qualified therapist), can actually yield resolution. To "soothe" negative feelings is different from actually resolving them. Your statement assumes that the person left to their own devices would automatically "soothe" their negative feelings in a self-destructive manner. There are any number of ways in which people can resolve negative feelings/experiences, without going into denial that it was indeed a negative experience.

One thing this discussion has brought more into my
awareness is that LGATs DO pretend that we can change reality just by changing the language to where we use euphemisms to speak about it. The problem is that the broken arm will feel exactly the same, regardless of what we call it. In fact, if a dog or a horse breaks a leg, they have no word for it at all, yet they still shriek in pain. It's really hard to bullshit a dog. ]

Hi kdag:

It seems to me you are saying that bitterness, disgust, judgmentalness, blame, and feeling betrayed are all a big help to you, and proper order, and counseling helps you resolve it so you have a delightful little loop going.

I'm happy if that works for you. I actually mean that. Most people try too quickly to drop their real feelings and end up being phoney. Better to at least be genuine. After while it might get wearing though, but there is no one size fits all, is there?

[hellobeautiful.com]

[forum.culteducation.com]

"NVC is really a coercive method of mislabeling passionate opposition as
"violent" to prevent honest passion from entering a discussion, while
the attacker appears to be calm, labeling the appearance of calm, rather
than truth, as the hallmark of "communication." This keeps deceitful
manipulators in control of a conversation with subtle techniques of
attack in which they label honest opposition as angry, violent, etc. to
draw attention away from or distort facts. It is part of the moral
relativism that allows the crafty to define or defy the moral ground
through subtle coercion." (bold, italics, colored text mine)

bakkagirl

kdag:

I was not advocating positive thinking. Positive thinking is attempting to plaster a positive thought on top of a negative belief. That won't help. I was advocating letting go of judging good and bad.


bakkagirl:

I was not advocating people join the NVC cult or blindly follow anything they say. I quoted Marshall Rosenberg because I thought he said something valuable about how we make ourselves upset. I should have put it in my own words.
So here it is in my own words:
When someone is promoting lies, hypocrisy, contradications and various mind control techniques, they are not bad, not evil, and do not need punishment, revenge or hate. They are simply sick, out of balance, confused and attached to false beliefs.

If we think we need to hate, condemn or punish people, (or ourselves), our wonderful beautiful emotions will signal the falseness of that belief.

.

You said,

"They are simply sick, out of balance, confused and attached to false beliefs."

As a person whose childhood, young adulthood, and, professional life has been marred and scarred by cults, cultic and totalitarian thinking, I don't believe this.

I think that at the top of these pyramids, and running all through them, are people who are highly calculating, and know EXACTLY what they are doing. I have no issue in hating both their motives and their means (the technologies), hating THEM.

Healthiest response possible, IMHO.

ANON541 wrote:

". I was advocating letting go of judging good and bad."

Call me a troglodyte if you must. I still say "heart attack - bad!" "Broken bones - bad!" "Bankruptcy - bad!"

Also - what bakkagirl said. My LGAT experience involved severe privacy and boundary violations, crimes committed against me, illegal surveillance, and left me with severe emotional damage, financial damage, physical damage. It was bad!

ANON541 wrote:

Quote

When someone is promoting lies, hypocrisy, contradications and various mind control techniques, they are not bad, not evil, and do not need punishment, revenge or hate. They are simply sick, out of balance, confused and attached to false beliefs.

There are times when such persons need to be stopped before they do yet more harm. And they will gladly exploit persons like you who refuse to judge according to good or bad.

They can only be stopped by using resources of the law which does judge according to good or bad.

Many of these persons are insatiable, care nothing for conventional moral standards and will only be stopped by imposition of force - arrest and detention.

They teach us to fear judging according to good or bad because they know
our hesitation gives them greater latitude to pillage and plunder trustful hearts.

For examples, read about Rajneesh (his followers poisoned a salad bar in an attempt to get local residents sick and sway results of an upcoming election), the NXIVM group, which has been stopped only because its leader and his senior followers have been jailed, and the Japanese Aum sect, which used lethal poison gas to attack subway passengers.

For those who remain interested in harm reports about the Real Love organization
itself, go here:

Real Love - "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

[forum.culteducation.com]


"Real Love" - $$$

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