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Anon 541
Posted by: DINGO ()
Date: August 07, 2018 07:34AM

Anon 541,

Are you justifying a cult here? See a person destroyed by a cult, by RealLove, and then judge your own words of justification.

When people are assisted back into normal life again, one of the things the therapist or counsellor will do with them is to find anything that was or may have been positive from the experience. This is to give them hope and is a therapeutic tool - NOT a justification.

See RealLove at work and you'll get to realise that none of that little list of nice things actually exists in this cult. None of them. It's totally destructive. And remember that the things quoted here are not devised by Greg Baer, but have been out there for a very long time - he is not some genius on being 'loving'. RealLove is far from healthy and loving.

But I agree with you that people should just take with them that which resonates and leave the rest for the trash can. However, when you see mind control techniques at work you realise that people pulled into RealLove will not be able to let go of stuff that does not resonate, and will instead be drawn in and brainwashed - giving away sickening amounts of money to RealLove events and things, and rejecting everyone in their life, lying naked in a strangers arms and behaving like a baby as well as all sorts of other degrading and unloving behaviours. If we are strong, we can embrace the good and reject the tripe - however, cults don't allow you to reject their tripe!!!

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: DINGO ()
Date: August 07, 2018 07:45AM

This thread was started by a person who chose to describe what they thought they had experienced with RealLove - and that was as an LGAT. It doesn’t function as a bonafide LGAT on many levels, even though RealLove does do group awareness training in the workplace. After reading several books on cults, mind control etc. I am convinced it is, or at least has morphed into a full on destructive cult in every way. But it is also more than just a cult – it’s the means to a specific end. An illegal deception which breaks the law in America.

The RealLove Cult is set up for one thing and one thing only – and it’s not life coaching.

The RealLove Cult is quite indistinguishable from organised religion.

The First Phase is exploratory. People come in as a guest, a visitor or as a mandated attendee ordinarily to a RealLove Group. Curious, open-minded and usually vulnerable and suggestible.

The Second Phase is the honeymoon period. This is where you are love-bombed to death, often coerced into joining the Mormons, and made to feel that you have finally found your tribe – a place where you totally ‘belong’ and everyone loves you, adores you, thinks you are wonderful. Where you feel you can be yourself, open up and reveal the dirty laundry and are accepted no matter what.

The Third Phase is the Acolyte phase. Here is where you learn the doctrine, the dogma, the liturgy, the rules-principles-laws-beliefs-ideologies and everything there is to know about the organisation. Here is where you become blind and look upward to your leader and daddy/coach for guidance.

The Fourth Phase is the Evangelist phase. It is at this point that you actively seek out potential new converts. Everything in your world is viewed, interpreted and categorised through the cult lens and filters. Everything. You are constantly selling the idea of the cult to all and sunder as you are so passionate you cannot see or perceive of any other way of life. (In this cult because the idea that RealLove©Trademark Registered is actual and real ‘unconditional love’, when its people go around proselytizing and trying to sell others into joining the cult they believe wholeheartedly that they are ‘being loving’). Their whole life is the cult – they eat, sleep, drink, breath and live the cult every moment of their life. This is where most cult adherents will be for the overwhelming majority of the time they are involved and why it is so hard to get them to see the reality of their life and mind-set.

The Fifth Phase is the doldrums. You’ve come to accept that there is probably much more in life than the narrow worldview you’ve lived for such a long, long time as presented by the cult. But you resign yourself to stay anyway as the inertia is simply too great to overcome. The exit costs are too much to bear, to face, to comprehend. You’d rather become a radical proselytizer and bring in a lot of new adherents to prove to yourself it’s not a cult than to admit you are in a cult at this stage.

If anyone bristles or objects in a meaningful and persistent manner they are branded a heretic and either shunned, shamed, ridiculed, pathologized – or some combination of these – until they come back into line (i.e. love, believe and follow the cult fully once again) or go away (in case you frighten off the newbies, scare others, or poison the cult with your bad vibes and untruths).

Outside the cult there are many people who know full well that you are in a cult – trapped by the cults unique brand of brainwashing and mind-control techniques. (In RealLove this is full and total immersion into and of all things RealLove – and most especially the Greg-chats and Greg-videos – with it being strongly advised to do this as much as possible. Listen while awake, listen while asleep and through the night so that the suggestions, hypnosis and mind control can do their work without you having to even be conscious.) Many of the people in your life outside of the cult have tried to help you to see the light, to see what is really going on. However, the total immersion and full-on bombardment of all things RealLove every day and night is altering the mind-set and changing your mind even though you have no idea what is going on. You slowly reject anyone not part of the RealLove cult family and start to wholly depend on being advised as to what to say, think and do by your new ‘daddy’ – revealing all your thoughts, fears, ideas and what’s going on in your mind.

There are two types of person who will have identified that you are in a cult and that something is wrong with you; those who will not understand why you joined and who will be critical because you are the one that rejected and shunned them in favour of the cult. And those who are going to be your support and your meal ticket out when the realisation ‘finally’ sinks in. When you randomly and suddenly ‘wake-up’ one day and realise the enormity of what has happened to your life since you joined. For people coming out of the RealLove experience after full immersion they will suddenly realise that they no longer have a spouse (they were told to divorce), or their children, their parents, family, friends, co-workers, hobbyists etc. – basically everyone that was in your life and important to you before you joined up. They will all have been gradually rejected, pushed away or ignored so much so that they just gave up on you as they couldn’t connect with you anymore. You were not the same person – something drastic had changed you and because they didn’t join RealLove with you, they may have pulled away due to not knowing who you were anymore (as well as sick and tired of hearing RealLove tripe being spat at them constantly).

However, there may be someone in this group who will understand what has happened to you and be waiting for the day when you finally wake up. They may understand what has happened to you more than all your family and you’re disenfranchised friends, co-workers etc. are capable of, and will be able to help you, over time, with the courage, strength, persistence, resilience and faith in you to help you rebuild all those broken bridges you chose to destroy (after being coerced to do so through mind-control by the cult of course!).

What are the exit costs of leaving a cult like RealLove?

What is the frightening inertia that they fear so much and which keeps them a member?

Why do leavers reject that they have been in a cult – even though their whole life is completely destroyed and they have nothing, are going through a massive psychological ‘cold turkey’ process as they stop listening to the videos and chats, having given tens of thousands of cash on RealLove for various things that they were told they ‘needed’ to do, and without RealLove in their life they actually have no other human being to interact with whatsoever, and how come so many years have passed by. Not only all this, but the realisation that what they joined for they never received and are worse off psychologically, mentally, socially and spiritually. Broken. Dejected. Ashamed. Alone. Frightened. Suicidal. Full of mind-fog. Unable to interact with people. Unsure of what to do anymore.

Exit costs include guilt about leaving their family and following the cult. Shame about things said and done. Embarrassment about being so stupid and foolish. Feeling like a pathetic idiot in front of work colleagues and everyone else because of being so gullible, of making a stupid decision, of being lapse, of being weak. There is also the feeling of how stupid they feel about how much of their money and savings they gave to the cult – even though they thought it was a charity or that what they were told to do would truly help them be a better and more loving person. The feeling bad about how deceptive they were in trying to get people to join, the wrong things they said, the lies, the deception. They are haunted by how rotten it was to abandon their family, children, parents and friends in favour of a cult and how they have missed out on so much life during that time. They are destroyed as to why they divorced when the problem was so easily rectified if they’d chosen to seek different help to RealLove. Some people are just inherently pig-headed and stubborn and instead of admitting they were wrong they’d rather stay in the cult and try to prove that it’s not a cult despite all the evidence to the contrary. There are of course many, many other types of exit costs, but these mostly apply to RealLove.

There’s no shame in having been pulled into a cult. You are the victim after all. The shame lies entirely in the one’s who ‘know’ what they are doing and deliberately wore you down and coerced you to believe that you were getting life coaching, while all the time you were being reeled-in to the RealLove cult. Shame too on the one who created all this cult ideology and who keeps the wheels in motion [that’s if he ever comes to realise he is NOT doing God’s work on His behalf and won’t be getting his own planet to be God of, after physical his death]. The cult has used very powerful techniques of mind-control after all, using undue psychological influence, coercive persuasion and thought-reform to manipulate your thoughts, behaviours, words, actions and choices. The cult has also got you to become a Mormon, one of its prime motivators. To live and behave like a Mormon, even if you are of a different or no faith, against your will, knowledge or consent and in the hope you will naturally become one or convert at some time because Mormonism aligns most closely with RealLove. In fact, if truth be known RealLove was principally set up to mormonise people – illegally.

RealLove uses motivational and suggestive hypnosis to motivate you subliminally to agree with them and their concepts. To coerce you gradually with various thought-reform techniques which allow the cult to act always for you with what it believes is what you want, need or is right for you (from their perspective not yours). Once RealLove enters your subconscious mind via videos, seminars, chats, conference calls, face-to-face etc. by creating a powerful trance-like state, the getting of what they want you to do or say is as easy as planting that suggestion right there where it will take root. And you don’t even know they have done it, or of what you are doing or thinking. It’s all done for you. People in a deep trance state WILL follow suggestions fully under the BELIEF that the thought was entirely their own. They will do as suggested, but think it is their own idea. These are implanted everywhere in RealLove. The suggestions placed in the minds of RealLove adherents make them naturally inclined to follow the lead placed there. Little do you realise that the deep subconscious of your mind is essentially altered to the way RealLove wants it to be, purely by simple suggestions, which you follow easily and feel perfectly natural in doing. You have no idea the thoughts have been planted there! Thoughts and ideas are installed into your mind that develop as a deep and long-lasting connection that continues to influence you and your behaviour long after you have left the conversation, watched the video, listened to the call etc. your mind working with these ideas, even when you want to rest or sleep. This is also why total and ongoing immersion in RealLove materials at the exclusion of everything else for long periods of time day after day after day is so destructive to the mind – causing confusion, fatigue and stress. Yes, it also causes a person to hook into the cult ideology beautifully and become a great follower, adherent and proselytizer as well as rely on your daddy to tell you what to say, what to do etc. as you lose the ability to think and feel for yourself. But it is also so very harmful too as the mind is constantly overworked as in the case of RealLove which actually causes all this, plus a very real sense of ‘fear’ (something it purports to eliminate). Fear of never being loved and being alone, of never being able to relate and be loving to others, of being angry and incapable of forming friendly relationships. When you see this over-working of the brain from overdosing of RealLove hypnosis trance techniques people literally change and alter their personalities for the worse – becoming angry and fearful rather than loving and gentle while also being so defiantly loyal to the cult and everything cult leader Greg Baer says – like a Jekyll and Hyde.

And what happens when you eventually leave? You wake up? Or you decide that RealLove is not working for you?

Well, they will tell you to get another intervention, with daddy-Greg of course, that you are not trying, that it’s all your fault, you are being awkward and they have done everything. No responsibility will ever be taken for what they have done to you or for the devastation caused to your life from all the advice having been taken. Interestingly, the folks who immerse themselves the most get mind-altered the most and depend on RealLove to run their life, while the ones who cannot (for reasons of time, resources, lifestyle etc.) do as much immersion, don’t get hooked as easily and become the ‘difficult customers’ who annoy the daddies because they seem to be needy and not getting things. The more immersion people can do then the more controllable they become. The more hooked, dependant, blind, dogged.

RealLove UK may have stopped, but it lives on in a new disguise. Greg Baer’s favourite little infantile adult young female – who approvingly gets held/cradled naked – has taken the reigns of trying to keep it going albeit in a different format. So beware ‘RealLove Europe’ folks, because it’s the same thing in different disguise. More secretive, more underground, less visible, but just as active. A nice little feeding ground to ensure a steady supply of interventions to daddy-Greg. However, unless you fully immerse and become infantile and pliable and gullible, there is little tolerance of people who genuinely seek RealLove for the help it says it provided. Probably because it is not providing help and life coaching at all. And what of all the poor adopted adult babies who now have no daddy anymore?

For some people following RealLove principles justifies their shit behaviours and so it suits them to keep following it. After all you can knowingly and willingly do bad stuff and totally feel good about it and accept it because RealLove says you are not a bad person, and your daddy loves you so everything is okay. The perverts will just stick with any clandestine groups they may attend because they get off on all the touching. The lonely women will continue to keep with it in the vain hope that one day their daddy will tell them that they can date and choose a spouse for them to get to know – after all the daddies (coaches) know everything about everyone and are primed to make the best decisions about who should be with who. Clearly, this is NOT life coaching or therapy as it contravenes client confidentiality and privacy. Coaches will keep ‘winging it’ or ‘faking it’ at interventions in order to keep RealLove going – after all Greg makes it up as he goes along so why not everyone else too?

And yes, RealLove has to all intents and purposes become a cult. It is more closed-house and secretive now than it ever was to begin with – especially in the UK. It didn’t start out being cult-like, but has become that way over the years as Greg was able to control more people and screw them of more and more money to follow him, his ideals and do whatever he offered to get more money in. Ask Greg what RealLove is really all about and you will be surprised to find out that the prime intention is to bring people to religion. Yes, religion! Not just any religion, but specifically Mormonism. But it doesn’t matter if you are another religion or don’t join because by living life the RealLove way you are living the life of a Mormon, you are to all intents and purposes ‘mormonised’. This may offend people of other religions and atheists highly to know that they are being mormomised without their consent, duped, tricked, fooled. There are books written on the Mormon churches goals of mormonising the US and the world – not written by haters or outsiders, but people born into this religion who have risen to high ranks and question it considerably. Basically, they have seen it for what it is. Seen the truths about what went on with the formation of the church and the goings on throughout the years along with the fact that none of what is written in the so-called Mormon holy books is real. No proof, no archeology, nothing. All a fabrication. A control mechanism.

So yes, RealLove is well and truly IS barely indistinguishable from a religion. Each book primes you in being a Mormon and living your life as a Mormon but disguised as self-help books. The books are your guides. Daddies are your ministers, your priest or bishop. Wise people are the elders. Groups are your Sunday school. Programs, courses, seminars are your services. Conference calls, videos and chats keep you on track ensuring you do not stumble off course (similar to members charged with calling in on anyone who did not attend church and ensuring they never leave the church). RealLove is Mormonism as much as it is a despicable and destructive cult.

And remember – the last person to know he or she is in a cult is the cult member themselves. Everyone else knows it, but them. With the realisation comes complete devastation.

For the RealLove People who follow this site - laugh as you may, pooh-pooh, and roll your eyes as much as you want. One day YOU TOO will wake up and be the last to realise what's happened to you. Will you have anyone left in your life who is not RealLove to help you? I wonder.

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: ANON541 ()
Date: August 12, 2018 08:40PM

Hi Dingo,

Nice to hear from you. As I see it:

Discrimination is when you clearly see true from false.
Judgement is when you make things "good" and "bad."

Discrimination is helpful.

Judgement is not helpful and is in fact destructive.

If you think your past time in Reallove© was "bad" naturally you may feel miserable about it. What if it wasn't bad but just another learning experience on your journey?

.

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: August 13, 2018 06:06AM

ANON54:

Are you here as an apologist?

Please don't denigrate the personal experience of someone posting here.

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: ANON541 ()
Date: August 13, 2018 07:25PM

rrmoderator:

I am posting here with an agenda for truth. Please quote what I said that you feel denigrates someone's personal experience.

I have pointed out many falsehoods, hypocrisy and contradictions with the Reallove cult.

When anyone, and I'm not saying anyone has, but when anyone judges good and bad they have harmed their argument, and created negative emotions... the very thing that drives people into cults in the first place.

Without "good" and "bad" we are emotionally free and don't need some "daddy" or cult to tell us he loves us.

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: kdag ()
Date: August 14, 2018 03:45AM

ANON541 wrote:

"...but when anyone judges good and bad they have harmed their argument, and created negative emotions... the very thing that drives people into cults in the first place.

Without "good" and "bad" we are emotionally free and don't need some "daddy" or cult to tell us he loves us."

Aah - gotcha! Okay, so because there is also no "right or wrong," what we can say is that the teaching tools employed by RealLove have a tendency to cause pain and distrust, and they certainly did for DINGO. Along with pain and distrust, there was also most likely some loss of confidence, loss of internal peace, loss of valuable time, and maybe no small monetary loss.

No judgement here, but when these things happen, it is possible that DINGO HAS been through a learning experience, and can gift RealLove by returning the favor, in the form of advertising on these boards exactly what it was that s/he got out of that experience. This may result in loss of income for RealLove, but it's an honest assessment, and these groups do always strive for authenticity. Of course, there is no "retaliation," but if the methods of RealLove crossed any legal limit, DINGO might even sue, doing RealLove the favor of helping to keep them honest.
We know they want to keep it honest.

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: ANON541 ()
Date: August 14, 2018 05:48AM

Almost constant judging of good and evil in my opinion explains a lot of the rampant depression, drug addiction and emotional pain epidemic. Try going a whole day without doing this, or even a whole hour.

As soon as we judge someone, anyone [including ourselves] as bad, we create negative painful emotions which we then dramatize, bury, anaesthetize or run from. Cults are one way we run from or attempt to soothe painful emotions.

Marshall Rosenberg claims that the root of violence is the very concept of evil or badness. When we label someone as bad or evil, it invokes the desire to punish or inflict pain.

It also makes it easy for us to create negative feelings towards the person we blame.

He links the concept of evil to our judicial system, which seeks to create justice via punishment—punitive justice—punishing acts that are seen as bad or wrong.

He contrasts this approach with what he found in cultures in which the idea of evil was non-existent. In such cultures when someone harms another person, they are believed to be out of harmony with themselves and their community, are seen as sick or ill and measures are taken to restore them to a sense of harmonious relations with themselves and others.

By telling the truth about lies, contradictions, and hypocrisy without judging we bring freedom to ourselves and those not privy to what we have seen.

As far as Reallove wanting to keep things honest... that is not my perception of this group, nor do I see them as striving for authenticity. Actually as a matter of fact quite the opposite.

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: kdag ()
Date: August 14, 2018 06:06AM

ANON541 wrote:

"By telling the truth about lies, contradictions, and hypocrisy without judging we bring freedom to ourselves and those not privy to what we have seen."

I believe that's what DINGO was doing. When people have been injured, it shows through in their speech/writing.

I have been through all of this in non-cult settings. I understand what you are saying. At the same time, negative feelings are a natural consequence of feeling "duped." To me, the semantics really don't matter. What was being communcated was that RealLove is likely to bring up those feelings, in time, with most people. People do vent, and sometimes, as a result their venting, others are warned to keep away from certain people and organizations that are likely to provide them with an experience that they would prefer to not have.

As to "punishment," is that your judgement term for lawsuits?

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: ANON541 ()
Date: August 14, 2018 12:37PM

Hello kdag:

As I see it we have three ways to combat cults.
1. Make ourselves beyond the need for cults.
2. Publicize their doings such as on this board.
3. Lawsuits

It seems to me the purpose of government is to protect us from unethical harmful people, so lawsuits are a valuable way. I've noticed the Nxivm cult is falling apart as a result of lawsuits, criminal prosecution and publicity.

So lawsuits, yes.
Publicity, yes.

How do we make ourselves beyond the need for cults?

It goes like this:
Let's say I am angry, irate, hostile, tense, suspicious, sad, betrayed, hurt, cheated or have some other negative feeling toward a cult.

You may say these feelings are justified, look at what the cult did. Well in order to be angry at a cult, I have to feel anger, betrayed and hostile. These are not pleasant feelings.

Love, peace, freedom and joy feel pleasant. So because I am hostile, tense, sad, and betrayed, in order to feel good again I must use alcohol, drugs, counseling, or perhaps get approval from others [such as from a cult] or who knows what else.

So rather than calmly looking at what is true and what is false and from a positive place point out their lies and hypocrisy, if I create these negative feelings toward others I now put myself in need of another cult to help me get rid of those negative feelings.

How do I generate these negative feelings that cause me to feel depressed? By judging myself and others as bad. There is no other way.

.

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Re: quote, unquote "Real Love" - $$$
Posted by: kdag ()
Date: August 14, 2018 02:15PM

ANON541,

I understand this. If this works for you - great! Not everyone is on the same path, and during a time of crisis is not always the ideal time to start trying to wax philosophical. The other two options are also valid, and may work best for other people.

I totally agree that any anger I feel is mine, and my experience alone. I do not, however, believe that any place that someone can turn to for support is a cult, or cult-like. Some group dynamics are healthy, others are not. I know that the criteria that I am using to describe "healthy" and "unhealthy" are concepts agreed upon by the psychological community, and generally translate to "things that tend to make people happier and more functional" vs "things that tend to impede happiness and function." I realize that these are generalizations. Some group dynamics encourage individuality and to not try to strip this away from their members. The groups that are called "cults" do.

You wrote:

"...if I create these negative feelings toward others I now put myself in need of another cult to help me get rid of those negative feelings."

That is blatantly false, as it assumes that any group or individual that could offer support is a cult. In fact, I think it's one of the most asinine statements I have ever seen. Is that an attempt at an amygdala hijack? Nice try.

I'm sure that you are capable of looking up the criteria that makes a group a cult, and can point to many types of groups that do not fit that description. It is those, non-cult, groups that people here would be likely to recommend.

You obviously know the difference, and I got over explaining things that people already know when my kids were about six years old, so I'm done here. This has become tiresome and pointless.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2018 02:38PM by kdag.

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