I'm so happy to find like-minded people as for a long time I thought I was going mad. I've recently lost a family member to this 'Real Love'.
My person in question is extremely naive, and vulnerable, but doesn't have anything wrong with them in particular. I feel like Greg and his band of merry criminals have fashioned a mental problem for my person, and has absorbed them into his world. I genuinely don't know how my person will be able to afford it, and so I don't know how long it will go on for. What they preach is certainly not unconditional love, because as they stop paying I presume Greg will drop them. They are no longer his cash-cow.
My person in question has cut off everyone. And I really do mean everyone. They have joined the mormon church, stating that they 'always had an interest', yet I am the one who knows this person the most in the world (or I did) and they never expressed a notion of interest until Real Love. The whole 'journey' of them joining the church took about 2 weeks.
I think about this person every single day. I love them so much, and I always will. 'Real Love' teaches people not to love at all. It's almost as if it punishes people for their childhood. It judges people when they think from their heart, because if it's not Real Love, then apparently it's wrong. You imagine and read about this sort of thing happening to other people, but when it happens to you and someone you love, it's so difficult to comprehend. I love my person with all my heart and before Real Love they really were the most perfect person in the world. My soul mate.

Sorry to wallow, but this is the first time I have met people who are in the same boat as me. I'm so sorry that you all have experienced this too because it is so confusing and I don't even know what to do. You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved, which is so heartbreaking.

We have to stay strong, and be there for our people should they ever see the light. I sincerely hope that one day Real Love is seen for what it really is.

Hello 0123.george,

You are not the only one experiencing this! There are others. Have a look at the other thread on Real Love - it can be found in "Cults, Sects and New Religious Movements" under the title Real Love.

I too fully feel the same as you do and have made a promise to be there for anyone who eventually gets out of Real Love and sees the light for what it is and what has happened to them - Mind Control, Persuasive Coercion and Psychological Influence techniques as well as psychological re-evaluation. The sad thing is that people pulled in to Real Love DON'T know that they have been mentally manipulated, they totally believe that we who are not fooled into doing it are the one's who are sad, insane, needing love, blind, being a victim or whatever, and that they are somehow saved.

The main thing to remember with mind-control is that where medical professionals, mental heath therapists, psychiatrists, psychological counsellors etc. MUST by law tell a patient/client that they would like to use a particular technique on them and get their permission first. The patient then has to be told what that technique is, what it sets out to achieve and any long-term effects or negatives to the use of the technique. The patient has the right to say NO, to delay, or whatever. But the main thing is that the patient is empowered about what is going to happen to THEIR mind, THEIR property. The clear difference with cults, Real Love being no exception, is that they DON'T ASK PERMISSION and just go ahead using all these techniques unsafely. Unqualified people doing psychological work. Posing as a life coach! It is not just all the mind-control methods being used all over the place in Real Love, in order to manipulate people such as your family member, that are damaging and yes as you say causing potential future mental health problems - as it most definitely will, but the fact that not being professionals certain methods are carried out harmfully. By this I refer to the 'Intervention'. A health professional knows how to 'read' a person right there in front of them, and understand them - not the same when done over the phone!!! Health professionals will open up the mind 'safely' and only bring out enough to be dealt with for that person for a period of time (at least a week, often longer) so that they can assimilate what has happened and understand things. They also know when to stop the process and to close the mind down safely so that it is not open to manipulation by others. Real Love doesn't know what the hell it is doing, and reject any idea that they are working psychologically. Sadly, your family member has been absorbed into Real Love as you say. That is a good description of what happens.

What we have to remember is that none of this is their fault. None at all. They don't need to be blamed, mocked, or judged for their actions. Instead we just need to keep loving them no matter how much we get rejected and labelled. Real love happens naturally and spontaneously, not due to a set of principles devised by someone. What you do need to do is to read some books on cults. I have read Rick Ross's 'Cults Inside Out' as well as many others, including 'Cults in our Midst', 'Take Back Your Life' and 'Combatting Mind Control' etc... Get yourself educated as you'll learn so much in these and other books to be able to understand what is going on in your family members life and head, and most importantly to 'be there' for them when the penny finally drops one day, as it will.

What makes a cult destructive is not always that it is like the cults that have made news headlines in the past (Jim Jones, Moonies, Waco, etc...) but they are destructive to the lives of the people involved and in regards to Real Love, the estrangement of family and friends and the hurt and devastation this causes, as well as the forced marital separations, the addiction and dependency on the daddys/mummys and sadly, but critically, the destruction to the minds of those pulled in, who cannot right now see or perceive what is happening to them. They will need a lot of psychological help when they get out one day, and will need lots of loving non-judgemental people around them to help them through it all. I can only, from my own experience, state that Real Love felt like a total 'Mind *uck'.

My other recommendation is to check the two threads on this website now and then, and see what others have to share who leave Real Love, or how family members are helped out. Useful stuff does come up.

And yes, I too hope that one day Real Love (and Greg Baer) are seen for what it really is.

Dingo I have to disagree with you on a few points. First of all Family Counselors in general are woefully inadequate. There is a very low bar of entry into the field and many, if not most of them are misguided, sorry to say. Little clarity on boundaries, victimhood, or trauma, and often encouragement for people to try to medicate their feelings as an avoidance strategy.

Secondly, you said something about depending on one's family and that too is not always helpful. Those who have parents with severe personality disorders, (controlling, demanding, negative, manipulative) are often helped by going "no ccontact" while they learn more positive ways of being.

One of the severe mistakes RealLove® has is with suppression, "Anger is always wrong." This is severely misguided. Unconditional love is unconditional acceptance. If you can't even accept your own feelings, you can't accept another person or even yourself.

Michael Brown has written a beautiful book about this called "The Presence Process," as well as having explained it fully for free on youtube.

Interestingly, another cult leader Teal Swan has plagiarized and copied Michael Brown's work and claimed it as her own according to ex-members.


.

One of the things about unconditional love is that we all have equal value. From the eyes of love we are all exactly the same worth.

With RealLove® Greg Baer has staked out the position in which he is the person in high status and you are the person of low status. He has even referred to his followers as "baby dependents" and that dependency is a good thing for babies [his followers].

There are many much better modalities to learn unconditional love than paying the kind of money involved with this group and having someone lord their high status over you.

Margaret Paul's Inner Bonding is good with its 6 steps: "Choose to be mindful of and pay attention to all distressing feelings rather than protect against them with substance and process addictions. Make a conscious decision that you WANT to take responsibility for your feelings."

From the Inner Bonding view, Greg is distracting people from taking responsibility for their feelings by having them seek approval from him or his group.

Lester Levenson's work on unconditional love is great. Non-violent communication NVC is good. Michael Brown's Presence Process... actually if anyone was interested I could name about a dozen groups or teachers doing much better work and without the huge money required.



.

Ha. Greg Baer's RealLove is trademarked.

Now thaaaat is conditional love...

We are "emptied out," by worry, anger, fear, "getting and protecting behaviors"... true enough.

We are filled up by unconditional acceptance.

When we feel "empty" (worried, upset, angry, grief, fear) if we bring unconditional acceptance to the feeling, allow the feeling, welcome the feeling... then bringing unconditional acceptance to it and allowing the feeling actually fills us up.

I will concede it may be helpful to call someone when you are feeling empty and have them offer you unconditional acceptance. However that ends up being disempowering because:
1.You are now dependent on others to feel well.
2. Having seen this work makes you susceptible to Greg's big $8k intervention play, which will be sold as the only thing that will make you better. It's not.


Sorry the only thing that will make you better is authenticity and bringing unconditional acceptance to your own feelings. Not making them wrong or seeking outside love/soothing.

Anger is not "always wrong for your happiness." Feelings are not right or wrong. Feelings just pop up as one more thing to be loved.

By just becoming a lover of your own feelings you will be freed from this endless payment scheme.


.

The Magical Kitchen by Miguel Ruiz

Imagine that you have a magical kitchen in your home. In that magical kitchen, you can have any food you want from any place in the world in any quantity. You never worry about what to eat; whatever you wish for, you can have at your table. You are very generous with your food; you give your food unconditionally to others, not because you want something in return from them. Whoever comes to your home, you feed just for the pleasure of sharing your food, and your house is always full of people who come to eat the food from your magical kitchen.

Then one day someone knocks at your door, and it’s a person [cult] with a pizza. You open the door, and the [cult] person looks at you and says, “Hey, do you see this pizza? I’ll give you this pizza if you let me control your life, if you just do whatever I want you to do. You are never going to starve because I can bring pizza every day. You just have to be good to me.”

Can you imagine your reaction? In your kitchen you can have the same pizza – even better. Yet this person comes to you and offers you food, if you just do whatever he wants you to do. You are going to laugh and say, “No, thank you! I don’t need your food; I have plenty of food. You can come into my house and eat whatever you want, and you don’t have to do anything. Don’t believe I’m going to do whatever you want me to do. No one will manipulate me with food.”

Now imagine exactly the opposite. Several weeks have gone by, and you haven’t eaten. You are starving, and you have no money in your pocket to buy food. The person comes with the pizza and says, “Hey, there’s food here. You can have this food if you just do what I want you to do.” You can smell the food, and you are starving. You decide to accept the food and do whatever that person asks of you. You eat some food, and he says, “If you want more, you can have more, but you have to keep doing what I want you to do.”

You have food today, but tomorrow you may not have food, so you agree to do whatever you can for food. You can become a slave because of food, because you need food, because you don’t have it. Then after a certain time you have doubts. You say, “What am I going to do without my pizza? I cannot live without my pizza. What if my partner decides to give the pizza to someone else – my pizza?”

Now imagine that instead of food, we are talking about love. You have an abundance of love in your heart. You have love not just for yourself, but for the whole world. You love so much that you don’t need anyone’s love. You share your love without condition; you don’t love if. You are a millionaire in love, and someone knocks on your door and says, “Hey, I have love for you here. You can have my love, if you just do whatever I want you to do.”

When you are full of love, what is going to be your reaction? You will laugh and say, “Thank you, but I don’t need your love. I have the same love here in my heart, even bigger and better, and I share my love without condition.”

But what is going to happen if you are starving for love, if you don’t have that love in your heart, and someone comes and says, “You want a little love? You can have my love if you just do what I want you to do.” If you are starving for love, and you taste that love, you are going to do whatever you can for that love. You can even be so needy that you give your whole soul just for a little attention.

Your heart is like that magical kitchen. If you open your heart, you already have all the love you need. There’s no need to go around the world begging for love: “Please, someone love me, to prove that I’m worthy of love.” We have love right here inside us, but we don’t see this love.

--- from The Mastery of Love by Don Miguel Ruiz

In reply to post on March 17 2018 at 06:42 by ANON541,

ANON541 Absolutely fine to disagree - and healthy! I will agree that there are a lot of people in social welfare work, counselling and therapy that are as you say 'woefully inadequate', but that does not mean that we can write off this area of help completely. As with the law of averages in everything, there is a range of good, not so good, incompetent and useless as well as excellent and highly capable. And we must realise too, that to get to a level of high competency does mean a lot of years with a lot of clients in order to get to that level. We can all look back on our early days with embarrassment at how incompetent we were when we started out at anything we put our hands too. The thing with cults, and cult leaders like Greg Baer, is that they tell people that ANY form of conventional counselling, therapy, psychotherapy, mental health support, social support, psychiatry etc. is totally useless. And this is often based on their own personal experience. Scientology, and other groups too, have a distinct dislike of anything to do with mental/emotional health therapy - believing it is evil, of the devil etc. But the reality is that it does work for a great number of people, just as much as it becomes a crutch for others, and is totally useless for others. There is no one size fits all as we are all different and unique. I am eternally grateful as I was extraordinarily lucky with my therapists.

However, some people have an aversion to anything psychological to begin with. They feel it is an intrusion into their private mind, their personal business. It is, but when you need help, you have to open up to someone. Better it a stranger in a safe and neutral setting than someone you know - for most of us!! They also DON'T want anyone to get 'in' to their mind and discover who they really are - maybe they are hiding the real dimensions of themselves and living a lie. Who knows! Sometimes people are against anyone actually getting into their mind and the root cause of their thoughts and behaviours - of someone knowing too much about them. You cannot be helped if you don't open up at some point. There are many techniques and methods used in psychology - and most of them are NOT about childhood and Freudian perspectives. I am sure that for some people, when they are undergoing some form of therapy and it turns out that they are discovering some home-truths about themselves (like they are narcissistic, psychopathic, sociopathic etc.) they wouldn't want this known by anyone and would go into denial about it. That denial can turn into a massive dislike of psychology and any form of psychological help. You also wouldn't want anyone to know very much about psychology either, in case they discover your secret about who you really are (in regards to being a sociopath, psychopath etc.). But a complete aversion to any form of clinical as well as social psychological therapy to help you get through some powerful issues would be detrimental to your own well being. I know that from first-hand experience. You have to let go and let people help you. And you know what? No one goes around telling everyone all about you - because it is all done under 'medical in-confidence' laws which protect your identity and health condition. Nothing to be scared of, and everything to gain. I know my parents generation still have problems and issues with accepting mental health as part of our human condition - and of it being just as, if not MORE, important than our physical health. Mental after all, refers merely to 'of the brain' and does not imply (as it did in generations past) madness and lunacy. Interestingly, reading several books on cults now, it seems that a percentage of cult survivors really do need to have conventional therapy to help them through the trauma of what they did, why they did stuff, discover who they are, get their power of self back again - and so on. Sometimes this is done in formal 1-1 therapy, but other times it is by being in support groups.

As I mentioned, there are many techniques used in counselling and therapy. I DID NOT want to have psychiatry used on me or indeed any Freudian techniques or inner child work done. My issues were all to do with adult life traumas. And while everything to a lesser or greater degree does relate in some way to our childhood (our childhood is still a part of us after all), I knew deep down that my issues did not relate specifically to childhood. I had to accept that I needed to be assessed first and then then best course of treatment would be allocated to me. I need not have feared, as it worked out that I did not need psychiatry. I also did not want to be medicated either. But it is STANDARD PRACTICE to be medicated when you are suicidal. I fought off so many different staff on this one. I found natural and harmless things to help me overcome episodes of extreme anxiety and panic, as well as depression. And because these things worked, they backed off and let me use them instead of medication. As I wanted to go through regression therapy - to re-live my harrowing experiences - I wanted to re-live them fully and painfully. I felt that being medicated and in some altered state of happiness I would not be able to fully regress and let out the trauma fully. They disagreed, but I got my way. But, I knew they would try to medicate me. I also knew I needed help, and if I didn't get it soon (at that point) then I would be sectioned. If that had happened I would have lost all control of my life, and I would not be writing this now. There is so much fear involved in opening yourself up to scrutiny so that you can be helped. Fear and shame, embarrassment and guilt, self-hatred - all sorts of stuff. But this is where the true help is to be found - as far as I am concerned. NOT with a cult group. But sadly, people have such strong fears about getting psychological help that they end up being open to the likes of cult groups - who will reel them in and cause more damage to them. It may all be hunky-dory at first, and the panacea to fixing their life. But as any cult survivor knows, when its all over (and it could be many years), not only are you left with the same issue having not been properly dealt with, but you now have more issues on top and you are worse off for the experience of it all. You've also lost time, family, friends, social life etc.

So, yes, I understand not wanting to go the psychology route, but there is far more harm to be done by following the cult route - plus you still have the same issues at the end of it all. Sometimes people don't understand that counselling and therapy is mainly 'people-centred' and that the therapist is there to steer and guide the client towards them healing themselves, and not being like a surgeon or a pill that 'fixes' things for us. I would rather the professionally trained, experienced workers who are qualified and registered in their field of practice work on me, rather than undertake to submit to the fraudulent practices of people posing as therapists (under various titles and guises) who can only do more harm than good.

Also, I too am that person with those family members with those conditions mentioned. And yes, I had to be separated from them in order to heal and recover from my trauma. They were unable to help me and were pushing me further and further into more and more self-harm as they said and did the wrong things. So yes, being separated from loved one's can be an essential part of the healing plan - but its always with the intention of the family being reunited again. In cults, and as I have seen with RL, it seems to be a permanent thing. It's all part of the clever strategy to get the person totally 'dependent' on RL for all emotional, moral, social and spiritual support in order to maintain a lifelong client. While RealLove states in its promotional materials that it 'eliminates fear' from peoples' lives, it actually does the reverse and creates far more fear instead. Fear of so many things and total reliance and dependence on RealLove to fill that space. And yes you are completely RIGHT - Greg teaches people to fail to accept their feelings and emotions, fail to learn anything from them, and instead to distract them from taking any sort of responsibility for what they say, do, react, attitude etc.

All I have intimated is that there is far more to be gained from proper professional work in the right hands - someone you feel comfortable with, with an approach that 'works' for you, rather than running off to a cult group to be healed. My experience with conventional therapy was healing and empowering (and saved my life too!) even though it separated me from family and loved ones for a while. Yet my experience in a cult group got me to see that NO healing or empowerment takes place at all. One will help you, the other will cause more damage to all areas of your life. I think of people in RealLove who have shared their accounts on both threads on this website - no spouse anymore, no brother/sister, no uncle/auntie, no cousin/neice/nephew, no granddad/grandma, no father! No mother! No friend! The person missing from weddings, funerals, engagements, 21sts, graduations, baby births, school shows, etc... that person is missing out too - even though while they are in the cult they don't believe they are. But they ARE. The devastation is tremendous to so many people. Going to therapy can remain private and confidential, while joining a cult group and all that goes with it is destructive. When people NEED that psychological help they are far more manipulate-able. It feels vile and sickening to see such amazing adult people totally manipulated, co-dependent, and disempowered in a cult group, when the counselling and therapeutic professionals have the priority of helping people to become whole, empowered, confident and capable individuals armed with tools to help and support them. (I am studying to be a counsellor ironically. Only a few years ago I was scared to death of them. Such incredible fear did I have!)

Thank you - you make really good points! You bring up really good stuff and food for thought.

One thing cult groups, like RealLove, are known for is their incessant reeling in of new adherents, or believers. This is, and always has been achieved by various means of ‘proselytizing’. Put simply, just going out into the big wide world of life and ‘selling’ or ‘marketing’ the idea, values and principles of said cult to anyone and everyone, family and strangers, friends and acquaintances and everyone else in between. This is done anywhere and everywhere, at any time of day and there is no particular or type of person to hone in on, just tell everyone all about the wonderful cult and how it saved your life and the lives of tens of thousands of others and it can save yours too! And we’ve all pretty much experienced that one person (may be more) in our lives who is so passionate about said cult that they are now highly involved with, that we can see, and hear, and sense and know very deep down within our souls that this person in front of us, selling this concept to us, has fallen for absolute and outright bullshit. We might have been drawn-in to the idea at first and given them our time and attention – but at some point, be in the same initial conversation or many, many conversations later we clock that they have been fooled into joining a cult and they are trying to fool us too. Some are fooling us knowingly, as it is their task to gain new followers. But there are many more who don’t have a clue that they have been suckered into a cult – that actually genuinely ‘believe’ it is what it said on the tin (therapy group, counselling group, spiritual group, life coaching, learning to love etc.). But you ‘know’ straight away that they have been duped into believing and joining and so you either choose not to associate with them anymore (you’ve had enough of their proselytizing), tell them you are not interested, tell them you have your faith or religion, tell them any other sort of rubbish story to get them off your back, or if you really truly care for this person you’ll tell them forthright and from the heart that they are in a cult. In each case the proselytizing will stop – eventually. But with the latter reason you will probably lose their friendship as they will not believe you and feel incredibly insulted and hurt.

Cults have been around for a very long time and are no different today than they ever have been. Cults have adapted and changed their enrolment methods over the years with key ingredient being the proselytizing and deception. Deception is key and that has always been the foundation of gaining new cult membership – it’s just that it has got a lot more clever than it used to be.

In generations back we all knew something about cults and they were not something any of us wanted to be involved with. We were all taught to steer clear of the motivational speakers at university touting their ideologies and reeling in the poor youngsters who didn’t have a clue what was going on – but it all sounded good. As usual, and has always been the case and will be forever more until they are eradicated, they tell us that our childhood have been horrendous and that we have not been loved by our parents properly blah blah blah. There is not one single cult that does not use this message as a foundation. Ever. It has been the biggest drawcard in getting people to listen and fall prey. They will also say how they are the ‘only’ ones who have all the answers and it is only by living and believing them that you will find happiness, fulfilment, salvation or love in your life. All leaders, without a shadow of a doubt – and the cult does not have to be religious or based on religion at all – are messengers of God, who channelled through them this amazing and earth shattering information, news, or call it whatever you want and nowadays this manifests as things such as ‘principles’, ‘Laws of…’, etc. etc. etc.

Not only have these leaders been specially chosen by god and the spiritual realms, but it is only through them, and them only and whatever they say, and what they say ‘only’ that will save people. These two factors are MASSIVE clues as to the fact that you are dealing with a cult. Massive. And you would think that people would see this and …..run!! But no, they don’t run. In decades past more people ran than joined, and we’d all hear stories about someone we knew who’d been accosted in the street and tried to be forced to join a cult. But we rarely hear of this sort of behaviour now. That is because it has all become so very deceptive. For two very big reasons. Firstly, the massive leaps in knowledge to do with the human mind, and the scientific testing and sharing of that information, and secondly the exponential improvement to modern technology. Both of these things are widely used to draw people into cults in a way that they have no idea it is actually happening to them. We could smell the bullshit easier in times past, but it’s a little bit more difficult now. And in this day and age people are so ashamed of being duped that they would rather go in hard and proselytize madly to gain new members – to thus ‘prove’ somehow that said cult is not a cult because other people are joining. Or by frantically proving it’s not a cult the person is in because of …… What are these ‘because of’s?’ These are the deceptive smokescreens that the cults of today use to fool people into believing that they are not really a cult – so we get hoodwinked. But because these clever tools ‘appear’ to be bona fide, it seems to become a decent argument and many people fall for it. However, once you are in the ‘mind-control’ loop there is not much that anyone can say to them to change their mind and get them to see that they are in a cult.

In generations past we only heard about cults through other peoples’ narrow escape stories, or from the news headlines when some major event was happening, or of the rescue kidnappings that saved people from a fate that had no idea about. They are still just as bad and just as deceptive, but much more clever with it, and while motivations have changed and the dynamics have changed about what a cult looks like and how it behaves the end results for adherents when they finally leave are just the same as ever. They penny eventually drops. It’s not like some things in life that build and build over time with doubts creeping in little by little until reaching a boiling point where something has to be done, although this is still the case for many. Modern cult members very often, if not being professionally guided back out, will have the penny drop all of a sudden. Things will just all come together and line up and not make sense, or make complete sense and then the reality sets in of what they have done. This must be one of the worst realisations ever happening to a human being – especially after they have split their marriage, rejected all their family members and friends and closed their life off in every way possible following the ideals, principles and laws of one person. To wake up from enthrallment must be such a shock to the very core of a person’s being – especially those who vehemently rejected, to those people who cared enough about them, that they were in a cult and who they eventually blocked from their life because of that mere suggestion.

The clever deception of modern cults, such as RealLove© Trademark Registered is their use of the two key elements that turn people into avid followers. As mentioned earlier this is the psychology element. So much scientific information is out there, and so many techniques to control and manipulate the mind. And like a wise scientist once said about something else, ‘it can either be used for good, or for bad – I hope it is used for good’ (I believe, Einstein). Many people are wary of psychological stuff – especially psychiatry. With good reason, because if you are loud and outspoken and may have a psychological condition it is likely you’ll be perceived as dangerous and that may lead you into a series of events that will forever cause mental and emotional destruction – if it is not right for you. But we need not be scared of psychology and counselling altogether as they have much benevolent help to offer – and they are about freeing you to be you, and not medically kidnapping you and taking control of your life and thoughts. Psychology is recognised as a science in recent years and it is also recognised that the mind is VERY, VERY EASILY MANIPULATED AND CONTROLLED. You just have to know how. Think car salesman, door-to-door salesman, and those telesales folk who are so pushy and forceful, but creepy too. They can talk anyone into anything by using a range of techniques that they use to manipulate your mind and emotions as well as letting down your guard and decision-making. Not just with words and interplay, non-verbal body language but hypnotic tricks, and many other psychological tools. Cults use all of these explicitly in all their activities. So whereas in years gone by many people would have got to a point with the proselytizing and told someone to bog off, nowadays our creepy proselytizer just kicks in with a known technique when they identify a certain behaviour. Most people don’t really stand a chance.

The other method at the modern cult’s disposal is technology. Cult leaders don’t even have to have or invest in a compound now! They don’t have to get everyone physically working for them, they don’t have to do anything in the ways that former cult leaders have done. Being a leader of a cult is not always about money, although there should be enough of a cashflow to keep up a life of not working (maintain a nice property, vehicles, holidays, expenses, lifestyle etc.). The leader has people working for and trained by them who do all the work ensuring that the money comes in. The cult is copyrighted to the leaders name, all their cult principles, laws, rules, behaviour codes, what to do’s etc… The cult leader also has their cult trademarked and registered too – just so that it doesn’t ‘look’ like a cult. Although it must be said that this deception has been going on a long time as the moonies and other cults register under different names businesses that link directly to the cult and people have no idea that this is so. And of course being copyright/trademark/registered they surely cannot be seen as a cult because this is not a behaviour of cults now is it? And the leader writes a whole load of books as well, so of course a ‘real cult leader’ would not write books would they? But for a long time now, some of the biggest and most well-known cults in history ‘have’ been writing books and distributing paraphernalia. They have not always kept their cult ideologies a complete secret.

While cult leaders don’t always aspire to be a multi-millionaire with mansions all around the world, they do, and still do, love the idea of being famous, adored, looked up to, feted, sought after and of being rather God-like. They love and feed off of this sense of power that all their followers give to them. Many have, and will continue to, move past the being powerful and god-like over and of other people who prey subservient to them and despise this stupidity while also loving how gullible everyone is. There are many stories by ex-cult members about how they saw this happening in their esteemed leader. However, what technology does is make it far easier to set up a cult and sit back in our armchair and control all these people – who believe every word we say! They don’t even have to leave their own home – except now and again. They can utilise modern technology to build a VIRTUAL CULT COMPOUND. The followers do as followers have always had to do – leave their partner, reject family and friends and dis- associate themselves from life. But instead of upping sticks and moving into a real compound that stay at home and tune into nightly conference phone calls, go to weekly groups, attend weekend seminars every now and then, go on the cult mind-control program once a month, watch the leaders’ video-chat once a week, and get a cult intermediary (trained and qualified by the leader) to coach, guide, teach, preach and tell you what to do with your life in a face-to-face or daily phone call interaction. Followers are totally disconnected from real life, all the bad people, but connected as much as possible by technology to stay in close contact with the all the good people – the cult. This is a virtual reality situation, a virtual cult compound. In this scenario people really are as much under the leader’s total mind-control as if they were on a compound in some remote region of the world. All the followers’ minds have been psychologically manipulated by various techniques (mind-control, persuasive coercion, undue influence etc.) stolen from psychology and used for bad and not good, while those very followers are indoctrinated to believe that psychology is bad and to stay away as it will not help them. This is very useful, because if they did go out and study psychology they might actually be enlightened as to what is happening to them. Clever tactic. The follower’s really don’t have the capacity to see what is happening to them and how their life is being destroyed. They are not in bliss and joy and there is no wonderful conclusion to being involved and following the leader. It’s all a total smokescreen using the best of modern technology to not just manipulate our minds, but to control our life so that followers don’t realise what they are doing. The longer people are kept in this state, that better for the leader.

I remember having a heated discussion about a member of RealLove’s propensity to proselytize and they denied outrightly that they were doing this. They stated emphatically that when they were ‘talking’ about RealLove©Trademark Registered, that they were “loving people”. I recall saying that going around being forceful (which they called passionate), and bombarding people with a set of values, principles, laws, behaviour checks etc. was NOT loving people, it was no different to being trapped by a JW, Mormon, Scientologist, Moonie etc. in the street with them going on and on about their religion/cult. They disagreed vehemently “ no, no, no, no, no,… this IS loving people”. And then I realised in the fact that they are completely under mind-control (or brainwashed if you like) by RealLove that they have come to totally, fully and completely believe this key doctrine:

“There is only one kind of love, however, that can fill us up, make us whole, and give us the happiness we all want: unconditional love or RealLove ©(Trademark, Registered)”

Yep, followers of RealLove actually believe that RealLove©Trademark Registered is 100% unconditional love. They cannot see that Greg Baer has basically attempted to copyright for himself, and trademark ‘unconditional love’ simply by giving it another name and owning the rights to that name – telling his followers that both things are one and the same thing – which they are NOT.

Then there’s this one as well:

“It is unconditional love or RealLove ©(Trademark, Registered) that we all seek, and somehow we recognise that anything other than that kind of love isn’t really love at all – it’s an imitation of the real thing. Unconditional love – RealLove©(Trademark, Registered) – is so different from the kind of love most of us have known all our lives that it deserves both a name and definition of its own”

Sorry Greg Baer, but you are so very WRONG on this one. But I now see that all that relentless pushing and pushing and pushing to join and believe in RealLove©Trademark Registered is because the person we know as our friend, lover, partner, family member, co-worker etc. has had their mind manipulated so fully that they actually believe that when they are what is seen to all and is ‘proselytizing’ (trying to gain new RealLove members) they see as ‘being loving’. They actually think and believe that they are giving their unconditional love to you, or anyone else they are sharing all their RealLove claptrap to. This is not only FREE advertising and promotion for the cult, but it is the same behaviour that has been going on since the first cult formed – and yet members do not see this either. They just think they are being loving.

I’ve lost some lovely, beautiful and wonderful friends in RealLove due to my discovery that it is a cult, and my telling people so. People don’t want to know me anymore. This is fine, it does hurt, but I understand that they truly believe that I am in pain and suffering something really bad and will be forever unhappy blah blah blah. But, I told people directly and indirectly through posts on facebook because I care about them and want them to see the light and not be trapped forever and miss out on a rich and fulfilling life. Not my choice to make I know, but then it’s not someone’s choice to make to manipulate people and have power over them for your own selfish deviated reasons. If I have sparked something deep within and the questioning begins to filter through one day then I will be happy, I will be there for them, and will love and accept them without judgement or criticism. If it means that I spark some deep questioning within someone about the cult they are in, RealLove, and I get to lose a friend and be hated, then I am happy with that and are able to sleep at night. It’s better I say something and lose that person and they eventually get out, than say nothing and they are trapped forever. Mind you, there’s quite a few men who really do ‘know’ what is going on but they turn a blind eye to it because they get off on the ‘love’ that comes with going to a group. The stroking of body parts and fingers run through their hair, laying in a woman’s spread legs and in her arms with her breasts in their face, the odd unforeseen erection now and then (whoops!), touching, hugging etc. There’s no denying that any man attended to and being loved with lots of touching by two or more women would just keep going back for more, even if he wasn’t sold on RealLove. I think this sort of group brings out the pervert that lies hidden in some men. There is no doubt that there are males who don’t want to do the whole shenanigans, but just go to group for the touching.

The final thing about how modern technology has changed the face and structure of a cult like RealLove for example, is that it can be used to truly HIDE what is going on under the surface. You have to admit that the gorgeous photographs (akin to LDS type promotional material) and videos and websites makes everything look so sweet and beautiful and loving and innocent. Yet, this cult like many others hides behind being a charity, as well as a life coaching organisation when in fact they are neither. The charity side is basically paying for Greg Baer’s lifestyle, home etc. so that he can make a video every week, do the odd intervention for quite a few thousand pounds/dollars, or the odd seminar for a weekend (for a few thousand pounds/dollars) and be at the end of a phone to ‘love’ people. By love people, that means spout his principles to followers. The same goes for the couple in the UK running things over there – both sustained by RealLove followers’ money via programs, daddies and mummies, seminars and tagging onto anything that can make a buck without doing a day’s work or actually any charity at all. The whole thing ‘looks’ squeaky clean’ and yet it is really quite evil. If we took away the groups, nightly conference calls, wise people, and everything else except the one-to-one contact between a coach and a client we’d have a coaching arrangement. An arrangement that maintains complete confidentiality as to who else is getting coaching and what that coaching is all about. There is no confidentiality here at all, because it is not a life coaching program – it is a cult. A clever, deceptive, manipulative cult that is using modern technology and psychological science to create a smokescreen as to what it is, and reeling people into a situation they feel powerless or too frightened to get out of, joining a crazy religion ‘because it aligns with Real Love principles and has a sense of community’ (LDS), being trapped into a virtual reality cult commune because they’ve rejected everyone they ever knew and loved in their life, and led to believe that they are being unconditionally loving by pestering people to join them!! The coaches who are also registered and insured with professional bodies should all be de-registered as they have all contravened so many of the factors that underpin being a professional coach. Shame on them all.

But maybe this is Greg Baer getting a practice run for being given his own planet, of which he’ll be the God of, when he dies. He has risen in the ranks of LDS and probably got more people to join Mormonism than anyone else in recent years and so maybe this is Greg’s way of getting a bit of experience of what it is like to play God, because he’s dun goooood in this life and god will reward him. People following this thread, and the other one about RealLove on this site (REAL LOVE on ‘Cults, Sects and New Religious groups’) who have lost people to all this craziness I can only but feel your pain at losing your loved one’s as I too have lost people I value in my life. I hope that if anyone on here manages to get someone out of RealLove that they would share their experience of how this was achieved, as it may be useful to other people. I pray every day for the souls of people trapped in cults to find that inner realisation and have the strength and courage to get out – as well as for the people who love and care for them to have the courage and strength to just love them when they do! I know I will, but at the moment I still doubt that they are able to see the light, or trust that I really do care.

Thanks for your posts, I've really enjoyed reading them. I think one of the things to avoid is black and white thinking. Reallove® is a mixed bag. It's got some really good ideas, some questionable ones and some obvious false premises.

To really help people with this, imo, one needs to acknowledge the good, which is to say validate what is true. Until someone feels validated they will not listen to anything else.

So yes, the Reallove® ideas on victimhood are well stated, helpful and valuable. Validate that with anyone involved.
The principle of making love the most important thing in a relationship: excellent.
The idea of ending blame: excellent.
The idea of having people that you can feel connected with: wonderful.
Learning to be authentic: great.
Having intelligent boundaries: excellent.
There are many really great principles presented in Reallove®.

I've already written extensively on this thread about some of the obvious false premises presented by this organization... but again, I repeat, no one will listen to us if we don't first validate the true and good things.

All I can say to anyone who has not been effective with a friend helping them see some of the problems with this group, please check if you first listened and validated.

First rule, don't be negative, don't be a hater. Love and respect any friends you have involved with this. Give them time, lovingly and respectfully point out the obvious false premises and contradictions after validating the good things.