I am placing this message with some reservation, because there is a self-help book entitled "Real Love" which I think contains helpful information and perspective. The book's free, no charge to get it at the library, and if that's all it were, I would not be posting this message. This isn't about the book itself, obviously.

I think everyone on this forum needs to be aware of this quote, unquote "Real Love" program and just how commercial, just how-profit it really is (despite having recently received tax-exempt status.) The m.o. is basically this:

1.) Read the book. No problem.
2.) Form a "Real Love" group at your church. No problem.
3.) Buy 'life coaching' from a certified "Real Love" coach. RED FLAG.
4.) Buy a very expensive ($1000+) 'intervention.' RED FLAG.
5.) Buy more books, webinars, seminars. RED FLAG, RED FLAG, RED FLAG.

And if you choose not to go into debt, foreclosure, bankruptcy to buy all this "coaching," well, then - your happiness is obviously not worth it, and you don't really want to happy. Otherwise, you would be making the necessary investment to be happy.

I have seen lives destroyed - suicides, marriages broken up, etc - all in the name of this quote, unquote "Real Love" stuff. It's not loving at all. It's a few people getting rich off other peoples' unhappiness. It's all about the money.

I have seen "Real Love" groups start at churches on a strictly volunteer basis, people doing it in their spare time as time allows, only for those groups to be commercialized and the "non-paying" folks treated like second-class citizens compared to the "paying" folks who invested the thousands in *their* hapiness because, but of course, *they* care more about their happiness than you do. And, in turn, the volunteer people who got interested out of sincerity, they bail on it because of how turned-off they get by how 'all about the money' it has become.

This is all very Landmark-y, PSI-y...a lot of the same people with cash to burn on those programs inevitably end up with "Real Love."

I am posting this because I'd like those people whose lives were adversely affected to know that they're not alone and in hopes more people can start speaking up about this LGAT.

Send letters to the state and national bodies for denonominatons represented by these churches.

(Eg if this is happening in Unitarian or Presbyrterian churches, send your concerns to the national and state organizations that represent the denomination.)

Ditto for seminaries in those denominations whose churches have been infiltrated. Seminaries are important--thats where ministers, pastors, priests
are taught.

And all student ministers should be given up to date briefings on how to assess
groups requesting to do volunteer work or rent space at their facilities.

Denominations or church communities which are good hearted and strive for inclusiveness may be especially vulnerable.

1) For open hearted and well intentioned pastors and communities which
make a point of being welcoming and offering a rich array of volunteer efforts,
it can seem cruel and hard hearted to fact check.

2) It is psychologically painful to face that in this sad world there are
entities willing to exploit the trust of church communities and that fact checking is a sad necessity

3) These days we all need money, and renting facilities is an important source of revenue.

4) Churches and congregations are easily guilt tripped if someone is prudent enough to fact check and voice suspicions.

The thing to keep in mind is that to care for a congregation means having shepherding the flock -- people's hearts and trust. The building and its
rentable rooms. The reputation of the church or community.

A good shepherd will know that precautions must be taken.

* Be alert for wolves dressed in sheeps clothing

* Pay attention to the pastures and steer the sheep away from foliage known
to be poisonous

* Be alert for stray sheep seeming to be lost, but bringing parasites and other
diseases that could bring illness to the flock.

The shepherds of today must know to fact check, just as persons who have schools and facilities for minor children know that background checks must be done on volunteers offering their services.

This is not cruelty or lack of compassion. It is prudence -- and in legal terms,
fiduciary responsiblity.

And that includes fact checking so as to detect wolves in sheeps clothing.

Does anybody know anything about Real Love by Greg Baer? - Yahoo ...Oct 31, 2011 ... Does it work? I have just had it recommended to me but want to be sure it is not
some crazy sect or money-making scam-it seems genuine to ...
au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid... - 226k - Cached - Similar pages

Go to Amazon.com and read reviews, pro and con of the books

The basic principle of Greg Baer's “real love” group is that all of our lives we have had to pay for love. We have never experienced unconditional love. Unconditional love given freely with nothing expected in return... that is what is healing.

It's a great idea.

Greg said he went bankrupt trying to give people unconditional love and so a number of years ago he started charging for it. I've seen this before... somehow because he is preaching unconditional love that doesn't ask for anything in return... it is ok for HIM to charge for it... and it is quite expensive. There is constant soft selling pressure. He charges $7500 for a weekend “intervention.” His cure for everyone is to suggest they get an “intervention.”

He has “chats” and I don't think I have heard one in which he didn't tell at least one person that they need and intervention.$$$ka-ching$$$ with him.

This is crazy mindf**ck stuff. Preaching that it's all about unconditional love freely given and then charging ungodly amounts of money which so obviously contradicts the first premise that it almost goes under the radar.

It's sort of like someone loudly saying they would never charge any one to swim in their pool and then requiring a hundred dollar fee for pool cleaning or something. It so obvious and goofy it's laughable yet people are often emotionally desperate enough anyway. And to be fair Greg is very good at what he does. He can have people shouting at him, screaming at him, calling him names and stay emotionally loving and connected with them without batting an eye.
He knows how to say “no” to people without getting annoyed or doing anything but loving them. Admirable skill... is it worth $7500 to see over the course of a few hours on a weekend? If you are a millionaire I wouldn't hesitate. If you are like the rest of us working for wages... maybe not so much and it won't end there... there will be more selling pressure for retreats, coaching sessions, group calls and who knows what else … pretty much all requiring big bucks.

The idea of finding a “Magic Daddy” talked about so much in other places on this forum is really the basic premise with “Reallove.” Greg says he will be your Daddy and love you. It's just not cheap and if you don't become more loving in return it will be your own fault. On the other hand if your life does improve it will be all thanks to Greg and “Reallove.” Convenient isn't it?... if it helps he gets all the credit... if it doesn't you get all the blame for being a victim.

Let's face it the basic model that you can get filled with love by someone [Greg] is flawed for the simple reason it creates DEPENDENCE. Naturally a co-dependent type person is going to find “Reallove” the perfect set up. I know someone who never had any concerns about money. After a short time with reallove she became very concerned about it. Life turned into something in which it was all about getting money so she could go see Greg and get filled with reallove. Seminars, retreats, interventions, coaching certification, membership dues... once you become dependent like that on someone who charges big money for “unconditional love” it becomes endless.

I am reminded of a quote by Hazrat Inayat Khan: “Every little thought of profiting by it means destruction....”

As far as the European [UK] reallove … that is run by Nikki and Pete Uglow. As far as I can tell Pete doesn't talk to anyone unless they have paid for an “intervention” [£5000... not a misprint... yes five thousand british pounds for a weekend “intervention” two days 9-5] or he is getting paid. Nikki runs a message board and responds to peoples posts by basically running to Greg and asking him what to say and then repeating that. Anything said questioningly of the organization or of their charging money for unconditional love is quickly deleted and the poster is threatened with exclusion for going into “victimhood mentality.” Nikki is a scared little dodo bird who must have spent a fortune “learning reallove” and is now trying to recoup some of the money. When you have that much invested in it it is hard to see it for what it is. Is that called cognitive dissonance? I'm sure she has good intentions to help people too so it's not all bad.

To be honest I am grateful for what I learned from Greg Baer and reallove. Too bad it became so corrupted with selfish motivations... but I think that was a forgone conclusion for an organization whose basic premise is to look for love from someone outside yourself... which reminds me of another quote from Tarthang Tulku: “The more we look for love from outside ourselves, the more lost we feel and need to look even more.”

Yep, endless seeking, endless retreats, seminars, interventions, coaching ...the list never stops. I hope everyone can see the funny side of this. We live in a society so confused and bereft of unconditional love that we are willing to pay huge sums of money for it and then pretend that is actually unconditional love just because someone says it is... or that they were not charging for the love, just for their time.

One other thing and that is regarding Donna Baer. Donna Baer is listed as the co-founder of real love. She has said a number of places that her life is dedicated to promoting the real love organization and making it widely available throughout the world. Notice how she is saying her life is dedicated to promoting the organization... that is a very different thing from someone saying their life is dedicated to living a life of unconditional love. It may seem like a minor distinction but it 's important. One creates a cult... the other a mature human being.

Reallove.com is based on a fundamentally wrong premise. The premise is that you are “empty of real love and need to go out to other people and get filled up with real love.” This is DEPENDENCY. When you believe this wrong assumption and follow this program it creates a life of constant seeking. Seeking to “get filled up with real love” from Greg or others.

Seeking itself is what we do out of fear. Seeking is a form of fear. Fear is the opposite of love.

If I believe there is something lacking in me, I need to seek something that can make me whole. But whatever I seek and find, only temporarily relieves my pain because it doesn't end my belief that I am lacking. Therefore I need to go out and seek some more. I can go to “interventions”, go to “seminars”, “make phone calls,” go to “retreats”... but all of these solutions do not touch the fundamental problem.

As long as I believe there is something lacking in me, I will continuously need to go out and find things to remedy this made up problem. This works out well for those people who are making money off of your confusion. But it will never bring you out of confusion because its is in itself confused.

Someone who is himself confused cannot bring you out of confusion. You can get some interesting insights about victimhood, you can be helped to see your blindspots mirrored from others, you can make friends, you can learn to stop blaming... so if you are willing to look beyond the fundamental flaws it can be a help. It is not a total waste. It is just that when something is fundamentally flawed it's easy to get taken in a wrong direction with it.

Ok, so the argument for reallove is that “it works”. But it doesn't really work. You simply find people severely dependent on Greg or “coaches” for their sense of self worth. You could argue that it is healthier to be dependent on Greg [or coaches] than on say alcohol or drugs but that is not much of an argument. A misguided approach is a misguided approach. Saying it's not as bad as other misguided approaches misses the point and keeps you dependent.

Suggestions if someone you know is involved with the reallove cult.
1. Do not attack or criticise reallove or Greg Baer. This only creates hostility and you will be seen as the enemy.

2. One of the principles of reallove is that couples totally agree on money decisions. You may need to be firm in not agreeing to big money being spent here if that is your truth. Remain in your integrity and truth.

3. From a place of fun and humour you can help your friend see the glaring falseness in paying big money to get “unconditional love.”

4. Be very clear yourself on what dependence is and what co-dependence is. If someone is dependent on Greg Baer or a reallove coach that is still co-dependence.

5. Get clear about “transference” and understand clearly why therapists have always refrained from providing the love that their clients need.

6. Give your loved one time in this. The Greg Baer “I will be your Daddy, sit on my lap and get a hug,” shtick wears off before long on anyone willing to maintain any self-awareness. It may be something that they need at this particular moment. It is not even surprising given that most of us were conditioned to stand in line at a shopping centre, sit in Santa's lap and get all our desires filled.

Regarding the reallove cult, former medical doctor Greg Baer is currently offering weekend “interventions” for seven thousand dollars, something like that. The selling point is that he is giving “unconditional love,” something many people have never experienced before in their lives. It is unconditional love because he asks nothing in return and loves you no matter what. What about the $7k? He says he is charging for his time not for his love.

Why is this a lie? Because if I offer you an apple and say it is free but you have to pay for the apple skin, you could just say, ok, I will take the apple and you can keep the skin because they are separable. But if I say the apple is free but I am charging you for the molecules in it, then the apple is not free because the molecules are inseparable from the apple.

Similarly, if I say I will do session with you and give you unconditional love but charge for my time that would be a lie because my time is inseparable from the session and any possible love I can give you in the session.

Love is all about truth. Why doesn't “reallove” be honest and say they are offering counselling sessions for $7,000 a weekend? Basically because nobody in their right mind spends that kind of money for a weekend counselling session. The selling point here is that you are getting something unique, something you have never gotten before. What are you getting? Some very insightful counselling mainly about victim-hood that can be had at many other places for a tiny fraction of the price.

Which brings us to the topic of entitled. Doctors are the most crazy over entitled people our society has. Almost no one else has the cojones to work 2 hours and bill $15,000 for it. Doctors do. From Greg's point of view as a former doctor, I'm sure this all makes sense. As a doctor he would probably work 3 hours and bill $20,000 and now he is doing something much more valuable than physical surgery. From his point of view he is probably wondering why he's not charging more.

Greg is a fraud who is out to take your money. He told me on f/b that unless I refused to allow my fiancé to watch pornography (whether I enjoy partaking or not) we would never have "real love." Give me a break.

My car mechanic only charges for his time too.

But he doesn't lie about it and tell me he is doing it "unconditionally", asking nothing in return.

Unconditional love means being loved by someone who gets nothing in return and expects nothing in return. If they get something in return it is simply a business trade, so there is no thought that Greg Baer is offering people "unconditional love" whether in interventions, retreats or seminars all of which he gets lots of money in return for.

While it's true that practically anyone in the world would agree to love you for a few hours over the course of a weekend for $7,500, it wouldn't be genuine love. So I would have to say in the case of Greg Baer, what he may be offering, though in no way "unconditional love," it could be argued that it is genuine love... that is to say not phoney or pretend.