Date: January 18, 2011 06:16PM
Gregory Bateson soon after endorsing B&G repudiated both of them and NLP when later asked about NLP stated: 'If someone says they know NLP, run don't walk away from them.' Bateson was ticked off at them because he saw the toxic direction NLP had took and that a lot of it's leading adherents went power mad.
Milton Erickson never had a good thing to say about either since he had to tell both of them to leave after only two days at his home.
Satir, well she was Bandler's psychotherapist. Bandler and the NLP community has done everything possible to cover up this part of his personal history, along with his cocaine addiction, the murder of one woman and the odd death of his second wife and now him battling diabetes. NLPers have a vested interest in promoting a squeaky clean if eccentric bandler as it's co-founder instead of the out of control coke addict and all around SOB that has lied about everything he's every done.
Here's one link:
Oh and what Corboy has stated is very much true, if you use NLP techniques on people without their conscious approval - it will turn into a monster much like the many high profile trainers in the NLP community. Worse this is encouraged by the trainers, they routinely tell students to go out and practice on people without their consent during the breaks.
How does performing techniques on people without their consent turn one into a monster? Because you cease to respect that person's boundries and rights not to be screwed with, you in effect reduce them to a object like box. Kinda like the same way psychopaths view people.
http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,96753,96790#msg-96790Date: January 17, 2011 12:02AM
Even short(weekend or week long) but intense workshops can negatively affect a person's mental health.
I attended some years back a week long NLP course, at first I enjoyed it but about a month later I started having all sorts of nasty inter personal issues and bouts of helplessness, confusion, that persisted for a year, etc. Mind you the trainer was using all sorts of covert hypnosis during the 12 hour a day, week long course.
Another short course I took was a two day Sufi Meditation seminar which was not overtly cult like but used a lot of cult indoctrination techniques. Lots of chanting, staring into each other eyes for extended periods, weird breathing techniques that put people into estatic states, etc. Lots of folks didn't have a positive time either. From my research the teacher(Puran Bair) was sort of legit but evidently invented his own meditation sytem and borrowed heavily from 3HO. Which is really bad.
Here's the thing real Sufis don't use estatic states, they are generally frowned upon because students can develop a addiction.
Bottom line, short courses can be just as pernicious as a long course depending on the trainer.
My advice to folks is this; if you attend a seminar start feeling nauseous, weak or just don't like whats going on - Leave!
If you attend a seminar and everyone is getting some sort of emotional high at the same time and you're feeling like you've won the lottery - Leave.
Both are symptoms of maniupulation by the trainer.
http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,12906,92772#msg-92772Date: October 10, 2010 10:42PM
You've obviously been there and got the t-shirt.
Senior Trainers of a guy like Richard Bandler, can tie people in "loops" that they are literally not aware of.
There is evidence in this thread, that Byron Katie copied techniques from the same area, and from the Ericksonian hypnosis area. There are many hard facts in this thread, showing how she literally copied some of those patterns verbatim.
Its very very hard to combat these LGAT techniques, as if you attend a seminar, and are detached, the Gurus underlings will notice you.
Some of those with industry contacts were able to get "free tickets" or play the "refund" game, and were able to see the top people. But when you are detached, and observing their techniques, people notice.
Some get hostile.
They think you are stealing their content.
But only an experienced expert can go into the lion's den. Once you get to the top of the food chain, like near the Bandler people, its very dangerous, as they can hit you unconsciously.
Never bring money, or any cards, never bring a purse or wallet, and NEVER sign or buy anything.
Never let them push you around.
As stated if you start feeling "spacey" just leave.
If anyone gets into your face with high-pressure, always have a water bottle on hand, that can "slip" and dump into their $800 suit. Interrupt their pattern.
And stay off the phone with them, as stated. There are other threads here showing their phone techniques.
And those guys do have a CONSCIENCE.
Their conscience and morality tells them its unethical to NOT take your money.
They believe its ethical to take all your money, to teach you a lesson. They could not care less if their customers get pushed into being bankrupt from their schemes.
That is the school of hard knocks, and they don't care.
They literally believe its moral and ethical to take all of your money. Just like its moral and ethical for a lion to eat the gazelle.
What is the difference between monologic and dialogic communication?
Relate a situation when you or someone you know has engaged in monologue. How did this effect the relationship between the parties involved?
MT (Corboy replaced contributor's full name by initials for privacy)
In basic terms, monologic communication involves manipulation and control just as one would treat a physical object. It is the embodiment of an I-It relationship and obviously takes a one-way, transmission model approach to communication. Johannesen (1996) summarizes the characteristics of monologic communication in vivid terms:
A person employing monologue seeks to command, coerce, manipulate, conquer, dazzle, deceive, or exploit. Other persons are viewed as "things" to be exploited solely for the communicator's self-serving purpose: they are not taken seriously as persons.
Choices are narrowed and consequences are obscured.
Focus is on the communicator's message, not on the audience's real needs.
The core values, goals, and policies espoused by the communicator are impervious to influence exerted by receivers.
Audience feedback is used only to further the communicator's purpose.
An honest response from a receiver is not wanted or is precluded.
Monological communicators persistently strive to impose their truth or program on others; they have the superior attitude that they must coerce people to yield to what they believe others ought to know.
A dialogic view of public relations differs from a technician approach by being more humanistic, communication-centered, relationship-focused, and ethical. This perspective focuses on communicative relationships rather than on technical skills. Traditional approaches to public relations relegate publics to a secondary role, making them an instrument for meeting organizational policy or marketing needs; whereas, dialogue elevates publics to the status of communication equal with the organization.
Monologic communication is discourse in which the source is not particularly interested in feedback or the point of view of the receiver, but only in expressing his or her story. Dialogic communication on the other hand, requires constant sensitivity between both sides, to insure that what is being understood is actually what was meant.
Monologic communication is a one-sided type of relating where the seemly previleged assume the position of the all knowing . It does not provide space for democratic environment and could be limiting. Other the other hand dialogic communication is a two-way type of relating where ideas are shared and encouraged. As a result democratic environment is encouraged and growth is fostered.
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More and more non native attendees are displacing the birthright members from staying true to their own clan traditions of potlatch business. Haidas stay home and boycott their own clan potlatch as new age pushers, once traditional members, act out for their own “personal gain” agendas optimizing on “white man “ participation. Non Haidas, not privy to clan tradition and birthright ways, feel privileged to be present to witness pseudo “Haida culture” unaware of the sophisticated strategies of new age clan members as they pimp away their culture to seduce and use their new white membership for opportunities.
Doctors, health care workers, teachers, and professional servants are solicited to attend as honoured guests and made to feel special for being included in this private clan event. Any non native person can not really justify attending these private venues for clan business. For one they will never know the true structure of the family's hierarchy and never ever know the true family history of who is entitled to what position in reality. So they officially do not know what they are witnessing. Often the wrong names are being taken and given to the wrong people. And it is a known fact that some of these new age Haida members are not following protocol and do not even know their own lineage .
So what are non Haidas witnessing? Lies and deceit of a people with a certain agenda to acquire power over their own people. If I was non Haida I would not want to be enabling these new age Haidas to destroy their own culture based on greed and power. The white attendees are “love bombed,” some are even adopted and given Haida names and put on a pedestal. But beware, there is a shelf life, just like the honeymoon period, when it is over they move on to the next potential victim. What do you have to offer to advance these greedy souls?