I recently got involved with a new girlfriend. She is a lovely sincere person. It was only after 3 weeks that she mentioned the Landmark Forum. I now know that she did it 6 years ago and has done 2 courses since. She only displays a few signs and has kept her friends and family close but her mind has definitely been programmed. Her main symptom is enrollment; although she's only tried me a couple of times and all but 1 of her closest friends have resisted, she says she's recruited 20 people!
I am told that one inevitable outcome is I that will lose her if I don't do the Forum. I am prepared to fight to keep her and rescue her. Are there any former Landmarkians out there who can explain what made them get out.
I know how much distress people on this site must have been through but I'd appreciate positive suggestions rather than 'give up and get out' type advice.
Thanks, N

This sounds very familiar. Are you from east Canada? Is she from a far away country in the southern emisphere?

I don't want to be pessimistic, but from what I have experienced, a relationship with someone in Landmark is not possible unless you become involved too. This is the last post I got from my ex-girfriend. It says it all!

"It was only ever my intention to give you a life of happiness,
to let you see what was in your way of fulfilling on what
you want for yourself and your children. If you were not
willing to do the Landmark Forum then I couldn’t see any
hope of happiness for myself with you. "

What she didn't get is what I don't want for myself and my children. I don't want Landmark!!!

What is pathetic is she keeps saying it's not because of Landmark that we split up. This is enough to drive anyone crazy.

Keep in mind that the enrollment is insidious, subtle, profound and it's very difficult to resist their rhetoric especially from someone who says he/she loves you.

Ditto to all that 'midonov' stated.

IMHO, if you continue with her, you will end up (temporarily) living up to your chosen name : 'nutty'

Sorry to sound pessimistic, my intention is to be caringly realistic.

Likewise, recently found an old post-relationship Xmas-love note.. written well over a year after breakup (I'd thought I'd shredded everything),
the card wrote of the deepest love held in his heart, carrying me with him wherever he goes, and wishing for me all that I would want, he's always there for me if I need anything...

...typically twisting the end of all, back upon the outsider - inability to see the cult influence. Saddest for the cult indoctrinated member.

As midonov wrote.. I don't want the cult...

Nutty, If you manage the happily-ever-after that we'd failed to manifest.. then my hat's off to you!

t

It is always possible to help someone out of a cult. But the evidence must come from within, it must be her decision, not yours. You can only tell her the truth, communicate the logic of the situation (which is poison to the closed circuit Landmark logic) and show her how much you care about her. It will take more strength than most people have. And you might not end up with anything to show for it. You might even end up being pulled in yourself.

Considering how long she's been in the cult, it may well be too late for her. Or it may not. I can only offer that frail hope, that someday, she might get tired of it all and join us here at RR, where we can all laugh (and cry) about what we put ourselves and our families through.

I know that my sister risked her relationship with me to talk me out of the Forum. The forum COULD have been the start of a great wall between us. I'm so thankful that she took that risk. I'm not sure I would have made the decision to leave if not for her sage words of advice on that night after I completed the forum.

If you really feel you're strong enough, and you're in with a chance, then arm yourself well with the facts, and prepare to deal with her enrollment attempts. By all means, don't go in there all guns blazing when she's settling in to watch the telly, but every time she tries to get you involved, be adamant that you're not giving in, and that you really care about her waking up from this nightmare.

Luckily my first piece of internet research on Landmark was really shallow and I didn't see enough of a problem, otherwise I would probably have been confrontational. When I first realised how bad things could be I was luckily enough to speak to a counsellor who gave some sensible advice. I am definitely taking an indirect approach and never bringing up the subject myself. I have achieved in life without nefarious 'help' and my girlfriend feels relaxed and safe with me. I may have the cahnce to move her geographically way from Landmark but still need to try and get her thinking.
Thanks Dynamix for your more optimistic view
Nutty

Quote
Dynamix
. I'm not sure I would have made the decision to leave if not for her sage words of advice on that night after I completed the forum.

.

Doing the Forum is only the first step of the indoctrination process. Nutty, your girlfriend might ask you to do the Forum to begin with, but that will probably not be enough despite her promises to leave you alone after you have completed it. And she might target your family members, children (if you have any), your friends and workplace as well.

After the Forum, you have the ILP which completes the indoctrination process (takes at least 6 months of intense "coaching" - to fix you !?) that turns you into a deployable agent, enrolling people to feel empowered and authentic (which is a mere illusion). You will then do the work of enrolling all those people yourself. Is this what you want for you and your family? No matter what she says, remember this is the Landmark agenda and the pressure will always be present.

My ex used to make me feel guilty by saying "It means you don't trust me!" (a Landmark classic). My reply was "I cannot trust you, because I cannot trust your coach". A life coach ... for life that is.

Midonov, everything you tell me helps me understand more but don't worry so much about me. There is no way that I'll be taking the Forum. I'm sure I'd be hopelessly susceptible which is why I was so sceptical to start of with. I am systematically warning the new people my girlfriend comes into contact with that if she ever mentions this thing then to say no. I am doing what I can to make peopel understand so that she finds herself in a loving supportive environment all the time she's away from LEC. All I have to deal with is stress, disruption and having to go behind her back for her own god. The time I actually spend with her is still great. I wonder what she was like before the Forum?
Thank you for your support,
N

Quote
nutty
All I have to deal with is stress, disruption and having to go behind her back for her own god. The time I actually spend with her is still great. I wonder what she was like before the Forum?
Thank you for your support,

I understand what you are trying to do, but the day she will find out what you are doing, she will probably react very strongly. You are actually working against her! She didn't asked to be "saved". I went through something similar. Everytime I would mention Landmark and the way I was feeling about it, we had a fight and the relationship deteriorated. Then she would make me fell guilty about the situation using the Landmark rhetoric: wanting to be right and loosing something in return - love, compassion, longetivity.

Just be careful not to fall for this sooner or later. If she is being "coached", those sharks behing her will not hesitate to crush your feelings (using her) if you don't fall for their rhetoric. They just don't care about relationships. The agenda is clear. Everybody MUST fall.

Midonov you've clearly been through an awful time and I feel for you. I realise from you and the others what I'm up against. I am being really careful to build up a loving relationship without confronting this situation. My plan is that the message will come from a third party and be aimed at a fourth, stay with me here, and we'll see if she starts to reason again. If she doesn't I will have lost a potential life partner and I will be upset but I'll have tried. It's hard to tell how deep she is but although she doesn't display clear allegiance like some of the people mentioned on this message board it's likely to be strong within her. I am speaking to an exit counselor this week to work out a secondary strategy and I will continue to tiptoe towards my goal. The one thing that is sure is that I will never arrive at Landmark's doors for any reason. Thank you for your continued support
N