To Lekkie - about statistics
Posted by:
nettie
()
Date: May 22, 2008 08:10AM
Hi Lekkie,
in landmark world nothing really exists unless you say it out loud. Actually landmarkers are caught up in a vicious landmark thought system mind trap. They say that you are a machine - either you are running your racket or your winning formula/strong suit.
When forum leaders does not meet their statistics they run their racket on the assistants. When they fullfill they run their strong suit/winning formula. So there is a glitch in the technology.
They say that the thing that tells you that you are successfull in the normal world is when you can put one down on your list. That is seeing people as a statistic - not as a human being.
Landmark is pretty stupid...they don't live as they learn - they don't show a good example. They harass people (running their racket) and they are opressors of free speech (running their racket) and they are totally ignorant of the disasters that happen (that would be evil in my book).
in landmark world nothing really exists unless you say it out loud. Actually landmarkers are caught up in a vicious landmark thought system mind trap. They say that you are a machine - either you are running your racket or your winning formula/strong suit.
When forum leaders does not meet their statistics they run their racket on the assistants. When they fullfill they run their strong suit/winning formula. So there is a glitch in the technology.
They say that the thing that tells you that you are successfull in the normal world is when you can put one down on your list. That is seeing people as a statistic - not as a human being.
Landmark is pretty stupid...they don't live as they learn - they don't show a good example. They harass people (running their racket) and they are opressors of free speech (running their racket) and they are totally ignorant of the disasters that happen (that would be evil in my book).
Re: To Lekkie - about statistics
Posted by:
Lekkie
()
Date: May 22, 2008 09:01AM
nettie - so what are you going to do about it then? If you think they are EVIL - then how do you set them straight? Just a question.
Re: To Lekkie - about statistics
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 22, 2008 09:14PM
Lekkie:
You have attempted to ignore the topic, which is Landmark's statistics.
Here is another point regarding objective measurable results, based upon numbers and statistics.
Landmark has never submitted a study for peer-review and publication regarding any measured objective results attained through its trainings.
That is, post-Landmark objectively measurable results such as a lowered divorce rate, lessened need for professional counseling, lowered need for medication regarding depression, increased income or a higher grade point average acheived by its trainees.
Instead, the company relies upon anecdotal testimonials from its supporters, much like faith healers.
Landmark has the money to fund such research, produce a study and report hard statistics, but has chosen not to do any such comprehensive and objective measurement of its post-training results.
You have attempted to ignore the topic, which is Landmark's statistics.
Here is another point regarding objective measurable results, based upon numbers and statistics.
Landmark has never submitted a study for peer-review and publication regarding any measured objective results attained through its trainings.
That is, post-Landmark objectively measurable results such as a lowered divorce rate, lessened need for professional counseling, lowered need for medication regarding depression, increased income or a higher grade point average acheived by its trainees.
Instead, the company relies upon anecdotal testimonials from its supporters, much like faith healers.
Landmark has the money to fund such research, produce a study and report hard statistics, but has chosen not to do any such comprehensive and objective measurement of its post-training results.
Re: To Lekkie - about statistics
Posted by:
nettie
()
Date: May 22, 2008 10:26PM
Quote
Lekkie
nettie - so what are you going to do about it then? If you think they are EVIL - then how do you set them straight? Just a question.
I will see personally that they will close down their racket. What else is there to do Lekkie?
Re: To Lekkie - about statistics
Posted by:
Lekkie
()
Date: May 26, 2008 07:45PM
Quote
nettie
Hi Lekkie,
in landmark world nothing really exists unless you say it out loud. Actually landmarkers are caught up in a vicious landmark thought system mind trap. They say that you are a machine - either you are running your racket or your winning formula/strong suit.
When forum leaders does not meet their statistics they run their racket on the assistants. When they fullfill they run their strong suit/winning formula. So there is a glitch in the technology.
They say that the thing that tells you that you are successfull in the normal world is when you can put one down on your list. That is seeing people as a statistic - not as a human being.
Landmark is pretty stupid...they don't live as they learn - they don't show a good example. They harass people (running their racket) and they are opressors of free speech (running their racket) and they are totally ignorant of the disasters that happen (that would be evil in my book).
nettie - same thing happens in sales.... no surprise there. Except LE isn't about sales. Yes - they have to sell their products to survive as an entity, but that isn't their ultimate goal. It's a pity no one really points out what they are really about.
Re: To Lekkie - about statistics
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 26, 2008 09:25PM
Lekkie:
Are you serious?
Landmark is a for-profit privately owned business, its "ultimate goal" is to make money.
Why do you think people go into a for-profit business?
Werner Erhard and his siblings have become rich through Landmark, it's like a family business.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2008 09:39PM by rrmoderator.
Are you serious?
Landmark is a for-profit privately owned business, its "ultimate goal" is to make money.
Why do you think people go into a for-profit business?
Werner Erhard and his siblings have become rich through Landmark, it's like a family business.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2008 09:39PM by rrmoderator.
Re: To Lekkie - about statistics
Posted by:
Europe-girl
()
Date: May 26, 2008 09:53PM
Quote
Europe-girlQuote
Europe-girlQuote
Lekkie
Lekkie, to avoid any misunderstandings: I have been involved with Landmark for more then 10 years. Held various jobs within the organisation. The usual 'have you done it yourself' does not apply for me.
Aesome! How about I give you my Skype info , I've spent too much time typing about what I experience via the Forum - so why don't we just talk, it's easier for me. I'd like to hear when you did the Forum and why you think the Forum is pop-psychology that a teenager could've taught me... Can you IM me your info on how to contact you verbally instead of via message boards? I am always intrigued by various points of view, including the ones shared on this message board.
First of all: I respectfully decline skyping or chatting with you. I'm fine talking here and I appreciate the openess of a discussion where everyone can join in.
Secondly, I never said that the Forum is pop-psychology that a teenager could have taught you. I just didn't find your examples very compelling and wanted to point out to you the relative weight of them in this discussion.
I am rather curious as to your reaction on what I described as you 'sharing your breakthrough' during an introduction event. Also I'm keen to know whether you feel 'rushes' being involved with Landmark and what happens if you haven't had a breakthrough or peak moment (or whatever you call it) for a while.
Please elaborate!
Lekkie, I copy this quote to the Lekkie < > Statistics thread, so we don't have to go further off topic here.
I understand you find it difficult to discuss with moderator since he has not the Forum himself. Would you take the chance and discuss it with me, who has done it?
Re: To Lekkie - about statistics
Posted by:
caligari
()
Date: May 26, 2008 11:59PM
Quote
LekkieQuote
nettie
Hi Lekkie,
in landmark world nothing really exists unless you say it out loud. Actually landmarkers are caught up in a vicious landmark thought system mind trap. They say that you are a machine - either you are running your racket or your winning formula/strong suit.
When forum leaders does not meet their statistics they run their racket on the assistants. When they fullfill they run their strong suit/winning formula. So there is a glitch in the technology.
They say that the thing that tells you that you are successfull in the normal world is when you can put one down on your list. That is seeing people as a statistic - not as a human being.
Landmark is pretty stupid...they don't live as they learn - they don't show a good example. They harass people (running their racket) and they are opressors of free speech (running their racket) and they are totally ignorant of the disasters that happen (that would be evil in my book).
nettie - same thing happens in sales.... no surprise there. Except LE isn't about sales. Yes - they have to sell their products to survive as an entity, but that isn't their ultimate goal. It's a pity no one really points out what they are really about.
Saying it isn't really about sales is one of the sales tactics (or the more mystified word in Landmark, "enrollment".) I worked in the Records Dept. in est and even though I wasn't directly involved in enrollment, it was broadcast periodically over the loud speaker the overall enrollment numbers. And employees had to run down at about lunch time to see the current stats. This was the only purpose of our work -- to sell the courses.
Later around 2000 I was visiting my relatives in England and out of curiosity stopped by the Landmark London office. I told one person I stopped by to see what was happening and was sent to someone in charge of assistance. There were two assistants sitting at his desk when I came over. He immediately asked me which center in Europe has enrolled the most. Then proudly and loudly gave the stastics of London enrollments as the best in Europe. Then he asked me what I'm doing tonight, and then told me the only thing I should be doing is assisting in a introduction to the Forum.
It's all about sales. And saying it's just not about sales is part of how it's sold.
Re: To Lekkie - about statistics
Posted by:
Zorro
()
Date: May 27, 2008 12:02AM
Quote
LekkieQuote
nettie
Hi Lekkie,
in landmark world nothing really exists unless you say it out loud. Actually landmarkers are caught up in a vicious landmark thought system mind trap. They say that you are a machine - either you are running your racket or your winning formula/strong suit.
When forum leaders does not meet their statistics they run their racket on the assistants. When they fullfill they run their strong suit/winning formula. So there is a glitch in the technology.
They say that the thing that tells you that you are successfull in the normal world is when you can put one down on your list. That is seeing people as a statistic - not as a human being.
Landmark is pretty stupid...they don't live as they learn - they don't show a good example. They harass people (running their racket) and they are opressors of free speech (running their racket) and they are totally ignorant of the disasters that happen (that would be evil in my book).
nettie - same thing happens in sales.... no surprise there. Except LE isn't about sales. Yes - they have to sell their products to survive as an entity, but that isn't their ultimate goal. It's a pity no one really points out what they are really about.
Alright Lekkie I'll tell everyone what Landmark is really about.
Landmark is about power, control, and world domination. How else can you sum up Landmarks "2020 Vision" where they want to have everyone to converted over to Landmarks way of thinking by the year 2020. To do this takes money and people. They need a well trained sales force and well trained leadership that people will blindly follow. Where would one learn these things? "The curriculum for living" and followed up by the ILP for those Lekkies wishing to be really successful at recruiting.
To be successful in the ILP you "enroll" people which brings in money and recruits. When you're in the "Curriculum for Living" your constantly bombarded to bring in people to take the Forum. To do this you use your "Warm Market" (borrowing a term from the multi level marketing community) of family and friends. This brings in trusting recruits and money. While in Landmark you are told that you can take courses and have remarkable break throughs. What does that do? It keeps you indoctrinated and spending you're money.
To save money Landmark uses "volunteers" to do their grunt work. They tell them that they can have extraordinary breakthroughs by being a volunteer and that it is the "secret" to Landmark. Basically you get to work your ass off for free then get to be in the classes as a volunteer and get to be subjected to the same indroctrination as the participants. This can be looked at as either a form of slavery or a form of communism. With either view you're working for free and someone else is collecting the money.
Too me its as obvious as the smell of a shit pile. Whether its day or night, you know what it is without even having to see it, all one needs is a single whiff and Wa La, and you have your answer.
Re: To Lekkie - about statistics
Posted by:
spoony
()
Date: May 27, 2008 01:10AM
Quote
Lekkie
nettie - same thing happens in sales.... no surprise there. Except LE isn't about sales. Yes - they have to sell their products to survive as an entity, but that isn't their ultimate goal. It's a pity no one really points out what they are really about.
dear oh dear - Landmark is ALL about sales. Nothing else matters except how many people have registered into the forum today. No other statistic is as closely monitored; not the number people who have signed up for the advanced course, SELP or ILP, not revenue or costs, like in most normal businesses. In the office I was involved with, every time someone signed up for the forum it was announced loudly and to cheers. It was really weird.
Once you've done the forum, no one at Landmark gives a hoot what you got/get out of it. Haven't you noticed that if they do ask, it's normally as a precursor to getting you to do something for them? (usually call up that person you had an insight/breakthrough about and register them into the forum). If they were really all about changing the world etc etc don't you think they'd be measuring what happens in the lives of the people who've taken the forum? Wouldn't that be the 'responsible' thing to do?
Go ask your registration manager what the people he/she registered into a forum earlier this year, or even the last one, got out of it. And be ready for the blank look.
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