Thank you Real Deal. Your in-depth answers really help me understand the dynamic involved here. I'm glad you broke away and I'm sure your input will help others break away....as well as help friends and family understand their loved ones better and know how to gently approach them. God bless you.

I was in RW for a couple of years. I went through the three weekend retreats and also attended the weekly classes for most of that year, then I stopped going to class. However, I got a lot out of it and encouraged my wife to go which she did. We both went to the pilgrimages for a year.

There was plenty to like about it and it was spiritually satisfying. But after that first year of pilgrimages, it became quite clear that to ‘get the most out of it’ I’d have to participate much more - In the weekly classes, the different events, the men’s group, do service days, etc. I just wasn’t willing to give it so much time and money so I left RW.

I think if you’re a person with a mind of your own, you can take lots of good things from it. But if you’re easily influenced and buy into the concept that RW is a way of life and start thinking that Michael is an incarnation of Buddha, Jesus or whomever, you’re might lose more than you gain.

So while I saw others bend to the group pressures to commit more and more time and money, I knew what I was getting and what I was willing to give. I left when it was my time to move on.

I saw many people who had the same neurotic issues never get over them. To me, the point of something like RW is to learn and bring that learning into your life, your world. But for many in RW, there is a sheltering aspect that takes them away from family and friends who aren’t part of RW and their personal issues never resolve; they just revolve – go round and round.

One time in class, a man was conflicted because his uncle’s funeral was the same weekend as his pilgrimage. Even though he wasn’t close to the uncle, his mother wanted him to attend. But the class was very upset with him for considering going to the funeral instead of his pilgrimage. They told him that he had to take care of himself, that his growth was the most important thing. They rode him really hard. I was pretty new to it and all the while this is going on I’m thinking to myself, “don’t give in, come on man, have some balls. Respect your family. Be a man.” But he gave in. It seemed to me that the opportunity was to take what he learned from RW and bring it to the funeral.

This did not keep me from continuing because, as I said, I was getting something from all of this and anyway, these class dynamics were pretty intriguing.

At one pilgrimage a there was this guy who was madly in love (or lust, I think) with a woman. They didn’t know each other very long but were living together - the woman wasn’t sure she wanted to continue with the guy unless he committed to her on a deeper level and she was thinking of moving out. Fair enough. They asked Michael to arbitrate and he told them to move into separate houses for 3 or 4 months, stop having sex and then get married and live together. They said that it seemed so quick and how could they plan a good wedding and it might be problematic for their families but Michael insisted and they agreed. It was completely off the wall.

A guy was obsessed with his body fat. He worked out all the time and for him, it was defining. Michael told him to stop working out and gain a bunch of weight. I think it was about 25 pounds or something. I could understand the lesson. Another time, Michael told this good looking Persian guy that if he had a beard he’d look like Gabby Hayes, the cowboy actor from the 50s. He told the guy to grow a beard. Of course, this guy didn’t know who Gabby was but he grew the beard he looked pretty bad. I couldn’t figure out why Michael had him do this other than it made a handsome man look not handsome. The guy was a nice guy and didn’t seem to be on a big ego trip to me, but perhaps the idea was that this would humble him in some way. Or as some in this forum might believe, make him submissive.

Another time, there was a celebration and Michael invited everyone to have a sip of vodka or scotch. A woman said she didn’t want to drink because she was a recovering alcoholic. But he said it didn’t matter, she should do it.

Homosexuality. It took well over a year before I started to hear about this. It is taught that it is a perversion. Michael acknowledges that some people are born that way. He doesn’t absolutely subscribe to the idea that a gay person is gay by choice or can become heterosexual. Rather, he says gays should stop having sex. But he encourages the idea that deeply felt het sex is important. Too bad for gay people. RW is not a good place for gays. It was part of the reason I stopped. I couldn’t bring my gay friends.

Many of the members believe he is an incarnation of Buddha and even though he never says he is, there is an implication. Well, that’s up to each person to decide.

I’ve often wondered why so many Persians make up the RW community. I know it as a close knit community, so family members and close friends are encouraged to join. But still, what is the huge draw? Here’s a theory; when one grows up in the middle east, it is growing up in the land of Jesus, Mohammed, the desert, madmen and mystics. You were raised on the teachings of these masters but the teachings have been perverted and politicized. And now, one comes to America, and here is Michael, a claimed descendant of King David and by association a relative of Jesus, and one thinks, “I am in the hands of God’s messenger” .. And than you look at the giant sculpture of Michael’s hands in one of the garden’s and, gosh, wow. And it is ancient, in the DNA, it is in the blood, the history and it is the lost glory of that part of the world. Well, it’s just a thought. Maybe it’s just as simple as one guy went and told all his friends and that's how it started.

I read a post here about a boy who’s parents have been so involved in RW that he felt very alone and ignored. Yes, I can see how that could happen. I would tell those parents – if you haven’t learned how to give your son as much love as you do to Michael RW, you’ve not learned much that is worthwhile.


My first spiritual experience occurred when I read the Autobiography of a Yogi at a young age. .It turned m e on to a whole new way of thinking. Then I read other great books and became involved in various spiritual pursuits. So I’ve been around the block so to speak. I’ve seen people fall in love with leaders and take their word as if it were God speaking through them. But over the course of my life, I’ve also recognized the similarity of spiritual teachings and never become too attached to any one teacher. I believe that I am also my best teacher because a basic concept in most teachings is that the ‘truth resides inside of each of us’. And I believe this.

Like I said, I got a lot out of RW. So many of the things we did in retreat or pilgrimage were exciting, inventive, creative, fun, enlightening, inspiring, uplifting, educational and spiritually valuable. So the thing is, if you have some background in spiritual teachings, and you’ve been around the block, and you have a strong sense of self, it’s a good experience.

Would I call this a dangerous cult? Obviously, according to some in this forum, it is. The most bothersome I've read here are the stories about sex - I've not heard that but I do know a former member who told me something very disturbing happened to them and when they said it, I got the impression it was sexual. But I don't know first hand. But from what I saw, there’s no violence. You can leave whenever you want. No one hounded me. No one called me up when I quit and gave me grief. Is it perfect? There is no perfect. Do I condemn RW? No. I even sent a close friend of mine there after I’d been out of it for over a year. But my friend has his own mind so I wasn’t worried. And he was fine. Have people been hurt by RW? Oh yes, I’m sure. Have people been helped by RW? Yes, I’m sure of that, too. Would I shut down RW? Before I’d shut down RW I’d ban Rush Limbaugh from the airways and call being born again a crime against nature. But that’s just my opinion.

I know someone who joined a couple of years ago and tried to get me to attend a weekend. I did not hear anything that made me think that he's anything more than a charlatan, rather he seemed manipulative from the get go. How can intelligent people believe this crap or spend all this time, money and distance from the people that truly love and care about them. I guess I am a destroyer. I didn't know there was a name for people who are smart enough not to buy into this BS. Do they really believe that those of us who do not choose their path are less evolved because we have the ability to find spirituality in our own lives without turning ourselves over to this charlatan? Or are they just fooling themselves?

Are there people who have their doubts but stay forever anyway? I miss my old buddy. But I'll be there for him when he comes down from the mountain.

Dont know if MG claims himself to be a Sufi, but there is some poetry that may apply to him and those like him.

From the Egyptian poet El-Bedree El-Hijazee*, quoted by EW Lane, in his chapter on Saints in Arab Society in the Time of the Thousand and One Nights, Dover Publications 2004,

(The modern spelling of this poet's name is "Hasan al-Badri al-Hijazi "--he died in the early 18th century, C.E.)

Quote

Would that I had not lived to see every fool esteemed among men as a Kutb!*


Their learned men take him as a patron, even as Lord, in place of the Possessor of Heaven's throne.

Forgetting God, they say, 'Such a one from all mankind can remove affliction.'

When he dies, they make for him a place of visitation, and strangers and Arabs hurry there in crowds:

'Some of them kiss his tomb, and some kiss the threshold of the door, and very dust.

Thus do the idolators act toward their images, hoping so to obtain their favor.

*Kutb is the title given to the one who has reached the level of supreme attainment of Sufi practice. Kutb also can refer to a tent pole or axis. It is a title of supreme leadership or attainment in some domain of endeavor.

q=cache:20dbMAjH0RoJ:[www.archive.org]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2009 10:26AM by corboy.

A reply to sandered:

You ask:

Do they really believe that those of us who do not choose their path are less evolved because we have the ability to find spirituality in our own lives without turning ourselves over to this charlatan? Or are they just fooling themselves?

There is a psychological process that occurs in RW from the very first retreat, primarily intriguing due to its mystery. Michael begins building the mystic...RW is special and above the norm. Ultimately resulting in a very judgmental group of people that THINK they are “one cut above”. New members are given a very little taste of Royal Way, I wouldn’t even call it Royal Way, because it is extremely diluted, making it more palatable. Also, what they are given is highly manipulated. Liaisons give information to Michael about their progress, issues etc. Since a new member does not know information is being shared about them, they think Michael has extreme gifts to know them so well. The hand picking usually begins on the early retreats; Michael becomes a bully with people who will be a problem/challenging. On one of my early retreats, an attendant expressed their opinion (obviously unfavorable) of Michael as they were leaving. Michael explained this process as “making cheese.” He said “we are making cheese here; curdles float away from the mixture, we must discard them to have have the perfect mix.”

It takes time to build stamina to this kind of thinking. It begins by reading/studying Michael’s letters; those letters are in a perfect dose, although for some of us – they were hard to swallow. Then there is the order of the letters, building the all knowing Michael as the direct link to God. I found countless repetition in the letters, sublime, resulting in the perfect bait. Imagine the teachings as layers of building material, adding thin layers slowly and steadily, finally you have created an indestructible wall. That is how intelligent people stay in this trap.

Then add weekly class the Mix. Class is a breaking down process – always under the microscope. Even the superstars have to broken to keep them in check, again just the right formula. Sadly, for people in RW, a good amount of their time is spent being broken, which is what keeps them there longer. They are constantly put in a hyperactive state of working on their growth. I guess that has its negative results because there are too many people in the group that never change their crap. Unfortunately, being with Michael gives them the false sense that they are growing.

Are there people who have their doubts but stay forever anyway? I miss my old buddy. But I'll be there for him when he comes down from the mountain.
It may feel like forever but people do leave, only when they are ready. I know how you feel when you say you miss your buddy, it is a loss, hopefully a temporary one. What I can tell you is that if your friend decides to leave, they will welcome you into their lives again. It has happened for so many of us who got out. We really connected stronger than ever with our friends and family. Suddenly all the people we shut out, the people we thought to be less than, are the real deal. No fake spiritual friendships linked to a pseudo spiritual teacher – now there is a great example of real freedom.

A reply to SeenIt:

You say:

“Would I call this a dangerous cult? Obviously, according to some in this forum, it is. The most bothersome I've read here are the stories about sex - I've not heard that but I do know a former member who told me something very disturbing happened to them and when they said it, I got the impression it was sexual. But I don't know first hand. But from what I saw, there’s no violence. You can leave whenever you want. No one hounded me. No one called me up when I quit and gave me grief. Is it perfect? There is no perfect. Do I condemn RW? No. I even sent a close friend of mine there after I’d been out of it for over a year. But my friend has his own mind so I wasn’t worried. And he was fine. Have people been hurt by RW? Oh yes, I’m sure. Have people been helped by RW? Yes, I’m sure of that, too. Would I shut down RW? Before I’d shut down RW I’d ban Rush Limbaugh from the airways and call being born again a crime against nature. But that’s just my opinion.”

Your overall post was very informative. I think that you exposed some very worthwhile truths and show many examples of Michael’s tactics. However, I find the quote above open for debate... here goes:

First you ask a very poignant question, “Would I call this a dangerous cult?” Then you answer it by saying “according to some in this forum.” Your neutrality and attempt to show both sides of RW, tells me you could not have been in so deep. Good that you were able to know when to leave RW and that you recognize that you are your best teacher.

Your comment above seems to dismiss the fact that there was some sexual misconduct because you didn’t experience it “first hand.” What about the people who did? There is someone Michael kissed without their consent; others who were touched inappropriately or he had touch him, overt sexual comments to certain women about their breasts, those who performed masturbation in front of him, others that had totally nude private sessions, and sitting (only the small girls) on Michael’s lap in only a g-string. In my book, all these cross the line for the sake of therapy. I am sure there are more situations that I don’t know about. Maybe your feelings would be different if it happened to your wife or sister? Those situations have happened and I am speaking “first hand.” Even if it’s a handful of people – does that change the fact that it has happened? You might want to ponder your levity and generalities on this matter.

Maybe you didn’t see physical violence – what about the spiritual violence? Examples: destroying reputations of ex-members with non truths, breaking up families, ending friendships, causing divorces, and the list goes on and on. To add, look at the way Michael manipulates many people on various issues; to gain weight, who’s funeral they can attend, what surgery to have, what their last name should be, change their name - first or last, cut ties with certain people, teach homosexuality is a disease, arrange marriages, twisted mixed messages in letters on tithing (where members should give 10% of their net worth to RW), and so on. The money is another sign that RW is a business before all else.

The question is... do you allow something to continue that also causes harm for many and yet is a lifeline for others? Not a simple answer. That being said, not everyone has as easy time getting out as you have done. For me, it took many, many years. I understand that Royal Way has a place for some because they have no other world. For that reason alone, I vacillate on my position on if it should be shut down. But RW is no place I would send a close friend. Someone on this blog so eloquently posted, “Those who come to Michael with good hearts are disappointed, left with empty hands and pockets, because Michael cannot give them this. But, those who come to Michael for other reasons may have no problem supporting him and his farce.”

Fortunately, I have learned from my mistakes and share my opinion so others can discern what is right for them. I wish I had information, like this blog when I had my doubts, which started within my first year in Royal Way. It would have saved me a lot of agony and years of my freedom would not have been lost. That is why I make the effort to post periodically.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2009 12:50PM by The Real Deal.

The Real Deal writes:

Quote

Your comment above seems to dismiss the fact that there was some sexual misconduct because you didn’t experience it “first hand.” What about the people who did?

Exactly. Concern for the well being of one's fellow seekers has to be part of genuine spiriutal practice. Even if you do not experience harm first hand, if you keep hearing consistent reports that others in your spiritual community are being tampered with, if that spiritual path and its teacher are at all effective at instilling compassion as well as wisdom, then one should at least feel concern at the possiblity that others may be incurring harm.

Must mention that if one reads other forums describing other problematic groups, all too often some will say 'I experienced bliss' and dismiss detailed reports of how others reported experiencing grave harm, not bliss.

This 'I-got-my-bliss-nothing-else-matters' resembles the attitude many addicts have in relation to getting their fix. So what if others are getting boils or dying from the drug? So what if Mexican drug gangs are killing people at addiction clinics or are terrorizing people to work for them?

Never mind that. So long as I have my fix, my private bliss, I dont wanna know about the price being paid by those lower on the food chain, so I can get my bliss.

If one does not care about the well being of one's fellow practitioners, something is missing from the guru's teachings, no matter what states of ecstacy or thrills he or she can give by diddling your neurons.

And..finally none of us knows how much time he or she has been given to live life.

For that reason alone, it is a spiritual crime to use deceit to lead people into a dead end.

Sat at lunch next to a lady who revealed that her healthy 28 year old son had died a few weeks ago from H1B1. Got sick on a Monday, was taken that Thursday to the hospital by his family. Two hours after admission, he was on a respirator in the ICU because his lungs were failing. He was taken off life support two weeks later.

We are sent into this life for something better than to be objects toyed with by bored leaders.

Thank you Real Deal and Corboy for your answers. I find this all sad and disturbing knowing that my very intelligent friend is so indoctrinated with no end in sight. Glad you saw the real light.

I was moved by what Corboy wrote:

"Exactly. Concern for the well being of one's fellow seekers has to be part of genuine spiriutal practice. Even if you do not experience harm first hand, if you keep hearing consistent reports that others in your spiritual community are being tampered with, if that spiritual path and its teacher are at all effective at instilling compassion as well as wisdom, then one should at least feel concern at the possiblity that others may be incurring harm.

Must mention that if one reads other forums describing other problematic groups, all too often some will say 'I experienced bliss' and dismiss detailed reports of how others reported experiencing grave harm, not bliss.

This 'I-got-my-bliss-nothing-else-matters' resembles the attitude many addicts have in relation to getting their fix. So what if others are getting boils or dying from the drug? So what if Mexican drug gangs are killing people at addiction clinics or are terrorizing people to work for them?

Never mind that. So long as I have my fix, my private bliss, I dont wanna know about the price being paid by those lower on the food chain, so I can get my bliss.

If one does not care about the well being of one's fellow practitioners, something is missing from the guru's teachings, no matter what states of ecstacy or thrills he or she can give by diddling your neurons."

Besides feeling a stranglehold on my freedom, I left RW because I could not stand the years of watching Michael (and who could forget Maggie) shred people to pieces. Only to hear from others, "this is exactly what they need." People are under such seduction that they actual believe that. Finally I said enough at whatever the expense would be. If one truly examines their feelings while being in this group, rather then squash them down, they will find many instances that are not part of a genuine spiritual practice.

Thank you Corby for your explanation - I found it very helpful.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2009 01:33AM by The Real Deal.

Royal Way