Re: Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael Gottlieb
Posted by:
Michael's Osho Secret
()
Date: August 29, 2013 02:52AM
To Corboy:
A lot of human potential types and therapists visited the Pune ashram, and MG may have been among them.
Here is the transcript of a publicly available interaction between Rajneesh and MG,
From Osho's book, I Say Unto You, Vol. 1, Chapter 6:
Osho:
A lot of human potential types and therapists visited the Pune ashram, and MG may have been among them.
Here is the transcript of a publicly available interaction between Rajneesh and MG,
From Osho's book, I Say Unto You, Vol. 1, Chapter 6:
Osho:
This also exists as an audio recording that can be downloaded from Osho's website.Quote
The fifth question:
"Osho, Why do I cry whenever something real happens in meditation? Sometimes, even during lecture, when you say something that strikes me as my own truth, tears come to my eyes and I tremble with silent sobs. What is the connection between truth and tears?"
The question is from Michael Gottlieb.
First, it may be that only tears are true in you, everything else has become false. Your smile, your face, your gestures, your words – all may have become false. It may be that only your tears are still true. That’s why whenever you hear something of truth, they start surfacing. They are in tune with truth.
And this is not only so with you, this is so with many people.
Tears have not been corrupted too much, particularly in men. About women it is not so true. Their tears may he just a facade, their tears may be their diplomacies, their tears may be their tricks, strategies. But about men…men have not been allowed tears at all. People have been told from their very childhood that if you are a man, then tears are not available for you. You should never cry! So tears have remained there, uncorrupted by the society, unpolluted by the society – at least it is so with men. So whenever you hear something of truth – something that simply goes and becomes a song in your heart, something that simply penetrates like a ray of light into your darkness – tears come, because the true calls forth the true in you.
Michael Gottlieb’s name is beautiful: “Gottlieb” means God-love. Maybe there is a great desire for God, a great love for God which is getting ready every day, which is going to possess you. Allow those tears, because the danger is that you may be repressing them.
Gottlieb is a psychologist – that is the danger. You may start rationalizing, you may start finding explanations. You may start stopping those tears which are innocent – as innocent as dewdrops – which are uncorrupted by your mind; they come from the beyond. Those tears are coming from your heart. Don’t start explaining them. Psychologists have become very clever at explaining away everything. Live with the mystery of the tears. When they come, allow them. Go into those sobs, those sobs are the beginning of prayer in you. Flow in those tears totally, unashamed. Don’t feel embarrassed. Go wholeheartedly into them, and through them you will be cleansed and purified. Those tears will become your very alchemy. Their very touch will turn you into gold.
I have been watching Gottlieb. He has been here for only a few days, and deep down he is afraid of sannyas. First he was only going to stay for ten days, then he extended it for a few days. Now he has extended a little more, and by and by he is getting trapped. Now the tears have started to come. Now it is dangerous, Gottlieb.
But still you are not allowing them a total flow. Be swayed by them. Let that throb go to your very cells and the fibers of your being. Let those tears dance in and around you, and through those tears you will be initiated. Through those tears you are coming close to me and I am coming close to you.
If you allow, something is going to happen, something immensely valuable. But it depends on you whether you will allow it or you will escape before it becomes too much.
To be here needs courage. To be with me means risk. If you decide to be with me, you are risking finding yourself. The risk is there. And to find oneself, one has to die to one’s whole past, because the new can come only when the old has disappeared. Let those tears take your past, let them wash you. They are preparing you for me. And you have a heart which can grow in prayer. But if you allow, only then. Nothing can be done against you. And up to now you have been fighting, you have been protecting, safeguarding yourself. You are keeping a little bit aloof, distant. Then you are doing it at your own risk. You may miss the opportunity."
Re: Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael Gottlieb
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: August 29, 2013 08:00AM
An overview of techniques reportedly used by Rajneesh. Only persons who have been in RW can determine whether this resembles anything they encountered.
Years ago, I met a lady from India. I always ask what part of India people are from, as it is a vast country, with a multitude of cultures.
With great shame the lady said she was from Pune. I said I'd heard it was a very fine place.
She blurted out that she and many residents of Pune continue to feel dismay at how Raj brought infamy and debauchery to their city.
[www.ex-premie.org]
Hyperventilation -- Margaret Singer
[books.google.com]
To this could be added another element -- disruption of cues that people rely on to structure sense of time. These cues are termed Zeitgebers -- time givers
If enough of these are disrupted, people can 'lose their sense of time'. Sadly, they can easily mistake it for a mystical experience.
A lot of the 'deconditioning' experiments done in the Sixties and Seventies might in light of today's understanding, be construed as disruption of Zeitegebers.
An article here. Persons interested in more could go to Google Scholar and put zeitgeber in the search slot.
[www.google.com]
[www.wisegeek.com]
Many might not notice them when gone.
Being binned up in a room listening to babble from authority figure, especially if curtains are drawn to block sunlight and shifting patterns that track time of day, can disrupt with people's sense of time.
Years ago, I met a lady from India. I always ask what part of India people are from, as it is a vast country, with a multitude of cultures.
With great shame the lady said she was from Pune. I said I'd heard it was a very fine place.
She blurted out that she and many residents of Pune continue to feel dismay at how Raj brought infamy and debauchery to their city.
[www.ex-premie.org]
Quote
Sometimes the induction method is speech filled with paradox and discrepancy -- that is, the message is not logical and you are unable to follow it, but it is presented as though it were logical. Trying to follow what is being said can actually detach the listener from reality. A good example of this technique comes from cult leader Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh's comments at an initiation ceremony in which he gave each disciple a new name along with directives to wear first orange- and then plum-colored clothing and a necklace with his picture on it. Reading what Rajneesh said can give you a feeling for what words can do to cause a person to enter a light trance, or space out.
First, the picture is not mine. The picture only appears to be mine. No picture of me is really possible. The moment one knows oneself, one knows something that cannot be depicted, described, framed. I exist as an emptiness that cannot be pictured, that cannot be photographed. That is why I could put the picture there...The more you know the picture -- the more you concentrate on it, the more you come in tune with it -- the more you will feel what I am saying. The more you concentrate on it, the more there will not be a picture there.
Rajneesh perhaps was aware of the common human response to doing something repetitively: the repeated act can lose meaning. Children catch on, for example, to how they can say their names over and over until they have no meaning. In the quotation, Rajneesh is capitalizing on the way words commonly lose meaning through banal repetition. In relation to a trancelike state, he is also implanting the suggestion that "the more you concentrate on it, the more there will not be any picture there."
Hyperventilation -- Margaret Singer
[books.google.com]
To this could be added another element -- disruption of cues that people rely on to structure sense of time. These cues are termed Zeitgebers -- time givers
If enough of these are disrupted, people can 'lose their sense of time'. Sadly, they can easily mistake it for a mystical experience.
A lot of the 'deconditioning' experiments done in the Sixties and Seventies might in light of today's understanding, be construed as disruption of Zeitegebers.
An article here. Persons interested in more could go to Google Scholar and put zeitgeber in the search slot.
[www.google.com]
[www.wisegeek.com]
Quote
A zeitgeber is an external cue which influences the operations of the internal clock in an organism. The classical example of a zeitgeber is light, which leads some organisms to wake up, while others go to sleep. An interruption in such cues can confuse an organism, potentially causing health problems and functional difficulties, as demonstrated in numerous studies.
The term was coined in 1954 by Jürgen Aschoff, a German biologist who studied circadian rhythms. In German, “zeitgeber” means “time giver,” so in a sense, you could consider a zeitgeber to be like a natural alarm clock, triggering some sort of change in an organism's internal clock, like a cue to wake up, eat, or engage in various activities.
Light is such a powerful zeitgeber that numerous studies have been carried out on the influences of light over the lives of various organisms. Deprivation of light clearly has an influence on health, as does an excess of light, and many people struggle when they travel across time zones because they receive external cues to wake up or go to sleep at times which feel strange to the body
Other natural and unnatural phenomena can act as zeitgebers. Many social interactions, for example, can provide cues to the internal clock, as can eating, drinking, using various medications, and taking drugs. In some instances, the body learns to respond to particular events, following patterns established in the past, and in other cases, the body can be tricked into responding, as is sometimes done with prescription medications.
In many cases, a zeitgeber is a naturally occurring cue, and it is part of a complex series of cues used to establish natural rhythms for an organism. For example, people who live with chickens often use roosters as a cue to get up, naturally rising earlier or later in the day throughout the year as roosters crow at different times, depending on when the sunrise is. Roosters actually crow before the sunrise, typically, which may come as a surprise to some people, and the birds have an uncanny ability to recognize the time of sunrise, tending to be very reliable clocks.
Because the internal clock relies on zeitgebers to set itself, a lack of such cues can be very disorienting, which explains why people have trouble sleeping in strange places, or experience a disruption of appetite or personality while traveling. Many such cues are so subtle that people don't realize how influential they are until they are gone
Many might not notice them when gone.
Being binned up in a room listening to babble from authority figure, especially if curtains are drawn to block sunlight and shifting patterns that track time of day, can disrupt with people's sense of time.
Re: Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael Gottlieb
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: August 29, 2013 08:00AM
Messing with Social zeitgebers is being investigated as contributing to mood changes
[www.google.com]
[www.google.com]
Re: Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael Gottlieb
Posted by:
Michael's Osho Secret
()
Date: September 17, 2013 05:27PM
I submit a review of MG's letter about his views and teachings on the subject of homosexuality. As I offer my opinions, I will break it down paragraph by paragraph.
What does he mean by "so-called gay people?" It is interesting that he states that the liberal camp of acceptance is one that does not fit an enlightened society.
MG continues:
Painful sadness? Pretension? He claims his experience as a clinical psychologist brought the complex homosexual conscience into "brilliant clarity". This, coming from a man who only understood their situations from a heterosexual perspective. How could he truly know? And how many examples did he use to reach his conclusions? 20? 40? 200? Since his clinical expertise is not one that can be vetted, how do we know that the information he is providing is authentic?
MG, continuing:
Right. Gay is a "death style" and an "emotional, mental illness." No wonder no one in Royal Way is homosexual and his sheeple are discouraged from "sharing the weekend" with anyone known to be gay.
MG, continuing:
To state that homosexuality as a natural occurrence is devoid of "all common sense" is ludicrous. In my opinion, this man's "teaching" is heavily tainted by antiquated preconceptions and a heaping helping of homophobia. Wasn't Jacumba sued by a gay person for discrimination, its timing coincidentally in parallel with MG's decision to change the name from Jacumba to Royal Way?
MORE TO COME...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2013 05:29PM by Michael's Osho Secret.
Quote
To the people of Royal Way A radiance of light ...
A friend has asked, "Do you think the disease AIDS is a result of the gay people and their activities in our society?"
This question is a philosophical one, perhaps even a theological one. Exploring it will raise unnecessary emotionality on both sides. There is nothing meaningful to be gained in searching for a scapegoat; nothing positive can come of it. There is no definitive practical issue involved in this question, except perhaps the recent clamor from certain quarters to quarantine the victims. But such an extreme approach would relate to all victims of AIDS without regard to the origin of the disease. Hence, there is no justification for relating to this question in and of itself.
However, the question does trigger other issues related to the concept of so-called gay people that are practical and crucial to their well-being and that of the society they inhabit. Until now these issues have not been addressed satisfactorily. In its attitude toward homosexuals, society has evolved into two polarized camps: the so-called liberal camp, which not only allows but extols homosexuality as another lifestyle, and the opposite camp, which harbors and expresses bigotry and hatred for homosexuals. Neither fits an enlightened society. Let us approach this divisive issue compassionately and fearlessly.
What does he mean by "so-called gay people?" It is interesting that he states that the liberal camp of acceptance is one that does not fit an enlightened society.
MG continues:
Quote
In the first place, "gay" is not gay. The people calling themselves gay are, in fact, painfully sad. The very urge to call themselves gay gives it all away. Why would they want to call themselves gay if not to overcompensate for an excruciating, abiding sadness? Other than the pretension of gayness, there is very little that is gay about the so-called gay people. The greater the pretense, the deeper the sadness. Those who have observed gay people cannot help but discover the many nuances of pretentious behavior, conscious and unconscious. Pretentiousness at its apex. This is rooted in a life-consuming sadness that requires constant pretension.
I am not speaking theory. For a period of several years, my practice was in a clinic. During that time I had occasion to treat many homosexuals. This brought the whole "gay scene" into brilliant clarity. All gays - the hidden ones, the silent ones, the strident ones, and the blatant, political ones -- are deeply troubled about their homosexuality. When the masks are peeled away, a terrible and deep suffering wells up. The hatred, the resentment, the fear, and the confusion all burst forth with a vengeance.
Painful sadness? Pretension? He claims his experience as a clinical psychologist brought the complex homosexual conscience into "brilliant clarity". This, coming from a man who only understood their situations from a heterosexual perspective. How could he truly know? And how many examples did he use to reach his conclusions? 20? 40? 200? Since his clinical expertise is not one that can be vetted, how do we know that the information he is providing is authentic?
MG, continuing:
Quote
One might mistakenly conclude or assume that the homosexuals who came to see me as a professional were obviously unhappy in their condition. Else why would they come to see me? Hence, my observations would be biased by this segment of the gay population. Not so. Most of the homosexuals who saw me professionally did not come for that condition. They came to me for a variety of problems. Indeed, they represented a cross section of the homosexual community -- in fact, a perfect population for research and conclusion. One thing is certain: The acceptance by our society of the term "gay" for homosexuals is a ludicrous caricature of reality and exposes the confusion in our culture.
* * * *
Second, gay is not a lifestyle. If anything, it is a death style. Gay is an illness -- an emotional, mental illness.
Most disappointing and depressing is the cowardly step taken by the psychiatric and psychologic bodies in our country. Suddenly, one day, they decided to delete homosexuality from the official list of illness and diseases (DSM). What, I ask, changed to change their opinion? What new evidence, what new scientific or medical findings caused this switch? None. It came as a response to pressure from strident homosexuals and so-called liberals, a capitulation not only to the pressures of those who would rather not he considered ill, but also to the unfortunate ignorance regarding the treatment and cure of homosexuality. Being pressured by the political gays and having no viable treatment (other than electric shock, which was of doubtful value and often created unacceptable consequences), they made the decision: Elevate the status of homosexuality to that of a lifestyle.
Let me repeat, gay is not a lifestyle.
Right. Gay is a "death style" and an "emotional, mental illness." No wonder no one in Royal Way is homosexual and his sheeple are discouraged from "sharing the weekend" with anyone known to be gay.
MG, continuing:
Quote
Furthermore, homosexuality is not an issue of human rights but of human ills. Besides the two camps alluded to earlier, many well-intentioned people pursue this issue from a misplaced point of view. They mean well when they speak of protecting the rights of people who merely profess a different lifestyle. They assume that this particular trait truly represents and reflects the essential existential being of these people; hence, their human rights must be protected. However, simple logic recognizes that homosexuality is abnormal.
We are not here discussing the playfulness of children or random incidences of experimentation. We are speaking of hard-core homosexuality, those who insist on living a homosexual life. For anyone not to see the unnaturalness of it is to proclaim the dissolution of all common sense. It is difficult to believe how as a society we have become so perverse in our thinking on so many issues that there now exist spokespersons representing various groups in our society who insist homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality.
To state that homosexuality as a natural occurrence is devoid of "all common sense" is ludicrous. In my opinion, this man's "teaching" is heavily tainted by antiquated preconceptions and a heaping helping of homophobia. Wasn't Jacumba sued by a gay person for discrimination, its timing coincidentally in parallel with MG's decision to change the name from Jacumba to Royal Way?
MORE TO COME...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2013 05:29PM by Michael's Osho Secret.
Re: Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael Gottlieb
Posted by:
Michael's Osho Secret
()
Date: September 17, 2013 06:01PM
Let's go even deeper into MG's "Gay" letter while Royal Wayan apologists trying to explain away their Master's "enlightened" gems of clarity.
MG, continuing:
Now Gays are the victims. Their oppressors are the ones in society who accept their way of life. MG then appears to suggest that HIV and AIDS is preordained retribution for their "abnormality". That's right, MG, they brought it on themselves! It's a good thing you've warned us! "Deadly harvest?" How dramatic.
MG continues:
How clever he is to endorse the renunciation of condemnation, derision, taunting and punishment of homosexuals, while at the same time proclaiming them to be "abnormal" and "mentally ill." The doublespeak is as expertly disguised as a wolf in sheep's clothing. This letter is not given to a student until well past their one-year mark in the cult. They have received 30+ letters prior to this one, so as to make sure they are more "open" to this controversial "teaching."
MORE TO COME...
MG, continuing:
Quote
Throughout history, there have been periods when mankind has espoused absurd and perverse notions. This may prove to be one of the most dangerous ones. Not only does society suffer, but the victims suffer (yes, the so-called gays are the victims). The victims suffer; they remain ill, and because of this lifestyle attitude, many who would have found their way clear of this illness are instead led into it blindly and ignorantly, suffering the consequences of this so-called lifestyle.
There are no coincidences. One cannot in good conscience ignore the fact that a silent, macabre epidemic has found its way into the homosexual community, thrives and grows there, and is now sweeping across heterosexual society in a most alarming scope. This so-called lifestyle is turning into a threatening death trap. The next five years will determine whether this situation is a temporary warning, leading to a more enlightened society, or whether this disease will spread faster and farther than the Black Plague, reaping most of humanity in its deadly harvest.
Now Gays are the victims. Their oppressors are the ones in society who accept their way of life. MG then appears to suggest that HIV and AIDS is preordained retribution for their "abnormality". That's right, MG, they brought it on themselves! It's a good thing you've warned us! "Deadly harvest?" How dramatic.
MG continues:
Quote
This destruction coincides with our ecological destruction of the planet. The outer ecology is being destroyed because the inner ecology has been destroyed. Ecology means balance, harmony. We have played havoc with our inner balance. Man is devoid of inner harmony. To restore inner harmony, we must begin to confront all planetary problems with clarity, commitment, and firmness. But first, we ought to renounce all condemnatory attitudes with which we deride, taunt, and punish homosexuals. Rather, we need to awaken to our own blindness, to our own miscalculations, and find a new approach to the entire issue.
As with any problem, the longer we wait, the more difficult it becomes. At some point in the early stages of the problem, the solutions were easier. Every problem is easily solved at the beginning. Now it will not be easy. This is how we fail again and again; because it is not easy, very few approach the problem eagerly or effectively. This in turn prolongs and aggravates the issue, which in turn makes it less easy, requiring more drastic action, which, in turn, keeps most people from doing what is necessary. This vicious cycle always leads to some form of destructiveness.
How clever he is to endorse the renunciation of condemnation, derision, taunting and punishment of homosexuals, while at the same time proclaiming them to be "abnormal" and "mentally ill." The doublespeak is as expertly disguised as a wolf in sheep's clothing. This letter is not given to a student until well past their one-year mark in the cult. They have received 30+ letters prior to this one, so as to make sure they are more "open" to this controversial "teaching."
MORE TO COME...
Re: Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael Gottlieb
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: September 17, 2013 09:30PM
As ABBA advises in Momma Mia, "Dont go wasting your emotions..."
MG certainly seems preoccupied with gay people...to the point of wasting his time and emotions. Odd behavior for an allegedly enlightened being.
The ones to pity are the unfortunate persons who were gay and who paid money and give time going to MG for psychotherapy.
MG certainly seems preoccupied with gay people...to the point of wasting his time and emotions. Odd behavior for an allegedly enlightened being.
The ones to pity are the unfortunate persons who were gay and who paid money and give time going to MG for psychotherapy.
Re: Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael Gottlieb
Posted by:
Michael's Osho Secret
()
Date: October 26, 2013 12:16AM
He needed to provide an explanation of his closed door policy towards gay people to his followers. That way they could parrot his view to others and have piece of mind.
Re: Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael Gottlieb
Posted by:
desciple
()
Date: October 30, 2013 04:31AM
To the people who read this forum, to my old friends in RW and fellow seekers,
I decided to write in this forum as I was denied a meeting with Maggi. I called and emailed her three times on both communication systems and got no response. I simply wanted to clean up any unfinished business with her and RW. Like I said, I will meet you anywhere, anytime, and/or anyway that works for you.
I was a disciple of Michaels for 12 years. During that period I was involved with every facet of RW. I was as involved 100%….and I was happy to have found a teacher and a community of seekers.
The list of my involvement is as follows;
* Weekly group
* Weekly meditation
* Monthly worship (called the doo dah)
* Monthly retreat with Michael
* Twelve years in the Collective… leader for 4 ys
* Ranch service leader for 6 yrs
* Head of Construction for the annual formal party for 8 yrs
* Co-leed the Patrons party with Maggi one year
* One of Michaels 3 drivers
* Traveled in France and Italy with Michael and Maggi looking for a retreat location for 10 days
* Took care of Michael cars – 2 Bentleys, 3 Mercedes, a Jeep and a Lexus
* Co-lead the Ranch for 18 months
Michael’s main teaching was meditation, to become a witness, to be of the world but not in the world. He used many techniques, active meditations, group and private therapy, singing, dancing, painting, service at the ranch etc., etc. All of witch I embraced fully and benefitted from immensely! I truly felt in my heart that I found my Teacher, and I did, I was devoted to him, the teachings and the ranch for years. The last eighteen months that I was a disciple, I left my job in Los Angeles and co-lead the RW Ranch in Lucerne Valley with my wife of that time. Shortly after we moved to the ranch we bought a house in the tract below the ranch…clearly I was a lifer at that point.
Michael was a great teacher for me and I loved him deeply. He taught me the esoteric side of being with a teacher that can only be learned through the experience of devotion. Surrender is a beautiful teaching and grows the heart in ways that are unexplainable. To be clear, I experienced eleven years and ten months of bliss and two months hell with my teacher…I wouldn’t change one thing, it was perfect.
During the first year of co-leading the ranch I could do no wrong. I remodeled all the bungalow bathrooms, the men’s house, the White House (Michael’s residence), the changing room on and on….and I loved every minute of it. It was service witch was one of the three pillars of RW. Silence, service and ecstasy, at the ranch it was easy to embrace them all. There is no question it is one of the highlights of my life.
At my one-year review, Michael said “I finally had the right guy at the ranch and you exceeded my expectations”. Unfortunately that was not the case for my wife and co-leader. She was getting beat down by Michael and Maggi almost daily to the point of wanting to leave the position and RW completely. We had talks every few day for a while…her good friends were very aware and felt for her as I did. I was quite the juxtaposition, I was loving life and she was hating it. I was very hard on our relationship. She was down for a week and up for a day…repeat, repeat, on and on.
The reasons for her abuse were mostly nonsense and really just a classic way of mind control, it was said to see, I still think about the mental abuse she went through…terrible!
Flash-forward and the tables turned and it was my turn. It started when I was asked by Michael to be his representative for the new building/housing project at the ranch. I was over seeing all aspects of the project as the title holds. A lot of political BS was going on as does in a community of this nature revolving around donations, power trips etc. I reported to Michael weekly on progress etc.
One of the RW lawyers hired a construction supervisor that was sold as well connected to the city but ended up being a shyster and was fired. When I was reviewing his job files, I discovered he was being paid for supervising, doing physical work and sub contracting…simply put, he was triple dipping (over $40,000) right under the nose of the RW construction lawyer who was asleep at the wheel. When I confronted her she was baffled and reacted strongly to me. Within an hour I got a call from Maggi telling me to back off of her and don’t say anything to Michael as he didn’t need the stress. Maggi told me this lawyer does a lot for RW and you cant confront her like that and don’t tell people in RW what is going on bla bla….i let it go but was fired from the position by Michael shortly after that and the POLITICS begin.
A month later I was demoted from the co-leader of the ranch to the caretaker of the ranch. Michael said I was still just as responsible for the ranch but with no authority. If you know anything about a community and/or RW that was like swimming up river…impossible, but I hung in there, I embraced the teaching and tried to work with it. To no surprise, my wife all of a sudden could do no wrong. From that time on the heavy control games where on and I was arguing with Maggi on a regular basis. We went from great friends to enemies. THE CRAZY STORIES I CAN TELL WOULD TAKE 1,000 PAGES. Four months later I resigned from any roll at the ranch. I wrote Michael a letter of resignation and he and I meet for a few hours to finalize my leaving the caretaker roll. When I told Michael about the games Maggi plays he said “I don’t blame you for not wanting to work like that and is there anything I can do short of getting rid of Maggi to get you to stay”, my answer was no. I did let him know I would still live there and do service as non-leader.
VERY DIFFERENT THEN YEARS BACK IN THIS FORM WHEN MAGGI AS PAPRIKA CALLED ME JUDAS AND SAID I WAS FIRERED. THE ABSERD THING IS, I DIDN’T EVEN KNOW OF THIS FOURM DURRING THAT TIME AND THE RW FOLKS WERE ADDRESSING RM…SORRY, NO RM TILL NOW.
One summer evening near MY GRADUATION FROM RW, Michael called my X and me to his home at the ranch. He told us the woman who introduced me to Michael was leaving RW for good (She was involved for over 20yrs). He wrote her a letter and had us go into separate rooms to read it and met with us individually to discuss it. Like we were little kids…really strange to me at the time, now I see the control factor.
The letter was really sad to read. He put the biggest guilt trip on her that I had ever heard. She had cancelled a donation check for 50k and opted out of a commitment to give another 100k for the new building project. She was coming back from a year off of RW AS SHE WAS SUFFERING FROM THE DEATH OF HER HUSBAND Of 35YRS FROM MAD COW DEAEASE. This lady had donated over a million dollars to RW and they were pushing her when she was down to give more cash and stocks…crazy stuff. She got upset from the pressure and decided to leave over it. Michaels’ letter said things like “God will not for give you until you make it right with the teacher” and ‘I did so much for you and your husband’, I did this and that…I was hard to read. The letter was so off and so out of integrity from his teachings that it was the final straw for me, I never looked at him the same. His ego was running the show and the teacher was gone. He grilled us separately with how we were going to handle her moving forward. He was easy on me and me hard on my x, she came home a mess, crying hysterically and they were barely friends…. More games!
A month later I was gone. I waited a moth so I could finish the remodel on our home and a project I was doing at the ranch. There was a moment when my x was going to leave as well but Michael got her ear…he had a lot of power over most.
During the process of leaving I was harassed by more than twenty of my RW friends. They said I had no courage, I was a pussy, your burning a bridge, I was betraying Michael and on and on. Michael had my x call me to ask when I stopped loving him, I told her to tell him I never stopped loving the teacher, it’s the man I have issues with…I know she didn’t relay my response.
The next year was a year of major growth. Thankfully I had a few good friends outside of RW to lean on. I also went through cult therapy with 6 x members.
Now I want to explain the major flaw in Michael and RW as a hole. There was always a strange secrecy under current. Maggi was the enforcer of it. We were always told not to share Michaels letters, that they were personnel and only for the community. The same was said for the meditation practices and basically everything. The letters were usually transcribed from Michael’s talks a few months after we heard them via recorded tapes on retreat.
They were great letters, when I left there were well over a hundred of them.
So here you go. One of my last times in Michaels house, he asked me to fix a closet door in his study. In the closet there were dozens and dozens of cassettes that had the name OSHO on the covers. At first I thought nothing of it but it was logged in my brain. The day I was leaving my home at the ranch for good, I looked up OSHO and ended up down loading one of his talks. WOW, it was like listening to Michael verbatim!
Michael only mentioned OSHO once by his former name Rajneesh. Over the course of the next year I started studying OSHO daily. At first I was simple happy to have access to OSHO’s great discourses. As time went on it was obvious Michael used OSHO’s talks, mediations, therapy techniques, and the concept of class. Michael modeled RW after OSHO’s commune. Michael always prerecorded his talks, he said it was to save his energy, well OSHO did over 3,000 talk off the cuff…one or two a day for over 30 yrs in Hindi and English. I have listened to well over 100 of OSHO’s discourses and I have heard every talk Michael prerecorded almost word for word. To think Michael took praise for OSHO’s genius on every retreat was a sad discovery. We all thought Michael’s talks were amazing, they were, they just were not his, they were OSHO’s. I took it a step further and started corresponding with the Osho Ashram in India and found a talk from the 1970’s where Osho spoke directly to Michael…crazy. Michael use to teach “be straight”, It was one of his main teaching. “if you cant be straight you are lying”, how can a teacher of truth do that and claim enlightenment?! For a while I was mad, I felt betrayed, now Im happy and grateful Michael introduced me to the teachings and methods of OSHO.
So the community of RW is continuing to support the lie. It is so clear why their was/is always a weird secrecy trip in RW. When you build a community on that big of a lie, it is going to seep out everywhere it can, whenever it can. Hence cameras all over their new property in L.A. that looks like a weed dispensary instead of a welcoming, open spiritual center. Maggi use say “Michael is so clean”, not so much. One time Michael said he was turning sickies into seekers…who was the sick one. Michael modeled himself after OSHO totally. From his cars, to his watches, to his custom clothes, to calling the center the RANCH, to the people he quoted (he was quoting OSHO quoting people).
Michael had the gal to say I was like Judas on this forum, that I betrayed him and do I know the story of Judas etc. Michael was a sannyasin of OSHO and didn’t pay respect to his teacher. In fact, he betrayed us all pretending and taking credit for creating the methods of RW. Michael often spoke of the need to develop a strong healthy ego. A healthy ego would be open about being with OSHO and using his methods to help evolve a community. Michael sharply put anyone in check if they asked about his travels in India. Even on Michael’s web site he mentions a teacher or two, but no OSHO. Everything he did and all that his community does currently is the energy and methodology of OSHO, they should know and honor that….to be real and straight, that is if you want to live authentically.
Michael did have a great quality of being present and facilitating the teachings of OSHO. He did create a community of 300 plus people in spite of doing it hiding the fact that the blueprint was barrowed. Imagine if Michael was straight and he didn’t hide the beauty of his teacher, THAT IS A MAJOR FLAW. The secrecy factor scared a lot of people away…good people. Most of them were shunned, me included. I haven’t talked to my sister or her family for over 6 years, they are all in RW, I introduced them to Michael, and now to OSHO…. and I betrayed Michael, HUH!
One more thing, OSHO was the most open and wise teacher of our age. All of his teachings and discourses are open to all and it has always been that way, if OSHO was CLOSED LIKE MICHAEL WAS THERE WOULDN’T EVEN BE A ROYAL WAY…think about that current RW members and ostracizers! You either face the truth or you don’t, your head is in the sand or its not! Free yourself and Michael of this unnecessary lie. YOU HAVE ALL BEEN DOING OSHO FOR YEARS AND YEARS…EVERY MEDITATION YOU DO CAME FROM OSHO. If you’re a community of true seekers you’ll want to see, if your not, your not!
Your true friend and seeker!
I decided to write in this forum as I was denied a meeting with Maggi. I called and emailed her three times on both communication systems and got no response. I simply wanted to clean up any unfinished business with her and RW. Like I said, I will meet you anywhere, anytime, and/or anyway that works for you.
I was a disciple of Michaels for 12 years. During that period I was involved with every facet of RW. I was as involved 100%….and I was happy to have found a teacher and a community of seekers.
The list of my involvement is as follows;
* Weekly group
* Weekly meditation
* Monthly worship (called the doo dah)
* Monthly retreat with Michael
* Twelve years in the Collective… leader for 4 ys
* Ranch service leader for 6 yrs
* Head of Construction for the annual formal party for 8 yrs
* Co-leed the Patrons party with Maggi one year
* One of Michaels 3 drivers
* Traveled in France and Italy with Michael and Maggi looking for a retreat location for 10 days
* Took care of Michael cars – 2 Bentleys, 3 Mercedes, a Jeep and a Lexus
* Co-lead the Ranch for 18 months
Michael’s main teaching was meditation, to become a witness, to be of the world but not in the world. He used many techniques, active meditations, group and private therapy, singing, dancing, painting, service at the ranch etc., etc. All of witch I embraced fully and benefitted from immensely! I truly felt in my heart that I found my Teacher, and I did, I was devoted to him, the teachings and the ranch for years. The last eighteen months that I was a disciple, I left my job in Los Angeles and co-lead the RW Ranch in Lucerne Valley with my wife of that time. Shortly after we moved to the ranch we bought a house in the tract below the ranch…clearly I was a lifer at that point.
Michael was a great teacher for me and I loved him deeply. He taught me the esoteric side of being with a teacher that can only be learned through the experience of devotion. Surrender is a beautiful teaching and grows the heart in ways that are unexplainable. To be clear, I experienced eleven years and ten months of bliss and two months hell with my teacher…I wouldn’t change one thing, it was perfect.
During the first year of co-leading the ranch I could do no wrong. I remodeled all the bungalow bathrooms, the men’s house, the White House (Michael’s residence), the changing room on and on….and I loved every minute of it. It was service witch was one of the three pillars of RW. Silence, service and ecstasy, at the ranch it was easy to embrace them all. There is no question it is one of the highlights of my life.
At my one-year review, Michael said “I finally had the right guy at the ranch and you exceeded my expectations”. Unfortunately that was not the case for my wife and co-leader. She was getting beat down by Michael and Maggi almost daily to the point of wanting to leave the position and RW completely. We had talks every few day for a while…her good friends were very aware and felt for her as I did. I was quite the juxtaposition, I was loving life and she was hating it. I was very hard on our relationship. She was down for a week and up for a day…repeat, repeat, on and on.
The reasons for her abuse were mostly nonsense and really just a classic way of mind control, it was said to see, I still think about the mental abuse she went through…terrible!
Flash-forward and the tables turned and it was my turn. It started when I was asked by Michael to be his representative for the new building/housing project at the ranch. I was over seeing all aspects of the project as the title holds. A lot of political BS was going on as does in a community of this nature revolving around donations, power trips etc. I reported to Michael weekly on progress etc.
One of the RW lawyers hired a construction supervisor that was sold as well connected to the city but ended up being a shyster and was fired. When I was reviewing his job files, I discovered he was being paid for supervising, doing physical work and sub contracting…simply put, he was triple dipping (over $40,000) right under the nose of the RW construction lawyer who was asleep at the wheel. When I confronted her she was baffled and reacted strongly to me. Within an hour I got a call from Maggi telling me to back off of her and don’t say anything to Michael as he didn’t need the stress. Maggi told me this lawyer does a lot for RW and you cant confront her like that and don’t tell people in RW what is going on bla bla….i let it go but was fired from the position by Michael shortly after that and the POLITICS begin.
A month later I was demoted from the co-leader of the ranch to the caretaker of the ranch. Michael said I was still just as responsible for the ranch but with no authority. If you know anything about a community and/or RW that was like swimming up river…impossible, but I hung in there, I embraced the teaching and tried to work with it. To no surprise, my wife all of a sudden could do no wrong. From that time on the heavy control games where on and I was arguing with Maggi on a regular basis. We went from great friends to enemies. THE CRAZY STORIES I CAN TELL WOULD TAKE 1,000 PAGES. Four months later I resigned from any roll at the ranch. I wrote Michael a letter of resignation and he and I meet for a few hours to finalize my leaving the caretaker roll. When I told Michael about the games Maggi plays he said “I don’t blame you for not wanting to work like that and is there anything I can do short of getting rid of Maggi to get you to stay”, my answer was no. I did let him know I would still live there and do service as non-leader.
VERY DIFFERENT THEN YEARS BACK IN THIS FORM WHEN MAGGI AS PAPRIKA CALLED ME JUDAS AND SAID I WAS FIRERED. THE ABSERD THING IS, I DIDN’T EVEN KNOW OF THIS FOURM DURRING THAT TIME AND THE RW FOLKS WERE ADDRESSING RM…SORRY, NO RM TILL NOW.
One summer evening near MY GRADUATION FROM RW, Michael called my X and me to his home at the ranch. He told us the woman who introduced me to Michael was leaving RW for good (She was involved for over 20yrs). He wrote her a letter and had us go into separate rooms to read it and met with us individually to discuss it. Like we were little kids…really strange to me at the time, now I see the control factor.
The letter was really sad to read. He put the biggest guilt trip on her that I had ever heard. She had cancelled a donation check for 50k and opted out of a commitment to give another 100k for the new building project. She was coming back from a year off of RW AS SHE WAS SUFFERING FROM THE DEATH OF HER HUSBAND Of 35YRS FROM MAD COW DEAEASE. This lady had donated over a million dollars to RW and they were pushing her when she was down to give more cash and stocks…crazy stuff. She got upset from the pressure and decided to leave over it. Michaels’ letter said things like “God will not for give you until you make it right with the teacher” and ‘I did so much for you and your husband’, I did this and that…I was hard to read. The letter was so off and so out of integrity from his teachings that it was the final straw for me, I never looked at him the same. His ego was running the show and the teacher was gone. He grilled us separately with how we were going to handle her moving forward. He was easy on me and me hard on my x, she came home a mess, crying hysterically and they were barely friends…. More games!
A month later I was gone. I waited a moth so I could finish the remodel on our home and a project I was doing at the ranch. There was a moment when my x was going to leave as well but Michael got her ear…he had a lot of power over most.
During the process of leaving I was harassed by more than twenty of my RW friends. They said I had no courage, I was a pussy, your burning a bridge, I was betraying Michael and on and on. Michael had my x call me to ask when I stopped loving him, I told her to tell him I never stopped loving the teacher, it’s the man I have issues with…I know she didn’t relay my response.
The next year was a year of major growth. Thankfully I had a few good friends outside of RW to lean on. I also went through cult therapy with 6 x members.
Now I want to explain the major flaw in Michael and RW as a hole. There was always a strange secrecy under current. Maggi was the enforcer of it. We were always told not to share Michaels letters, that they were personnel and only for the community. The same was said for the meditation practices and basically everything. The letters were usually transcribed from Michael’s talks a few months after we heard them via recorded tapes on retreat.
They were great letters, when I left there were well over a hundred of them.
So here you go. One of my last times in Michaels house, he asked me to fix a closet door in his study. In the closet there were dozens and dozens of cassettes that had the name OSHO on the covers. At first I thought nothing of it but it was logged in my brain. The day I was leaving my home at the ranch for good, I looked up OSHO and ended up down loading one of his talks. WOW, it was like listening to Michael verbatim!
Michael only mentioned OSHO once by his former name Rajneesh. Over the course of the next year I started studying OSHO daily. At first I was simple happy to have access to OSHO’s great discourses. As time went on it was obvious Michael used OSHO’s talks, mediations, therapy techniques, and the concept of class. Michael modeled RW after OSHO’s commune. Michael always prerecorded his talks, he said it was to save his energy, well OSHO did over 3,000 talk off the cuff…one or two a day for over 30 yrs in Hindi and English. I have listened to well over 100 of OSHO’s discourses and I have heard every talk Michael prerecorded almost word for word. To think Michael took praise for OSHO’s genius on every retreat was a sad discovery. We all thought Michael’s talks were amazing, they were, they just were not his, they were OSHO’s. I took it a step further and started corresponding with the Osho Ashram in India and found a talk from the 1970’s where Osho spoke directly to Michael…crazy. Michael use to teach “be straight”, It was one of his main teaching. “if you cant be straight you are lying”, how can a teacher of truth do that and claim enlightenment?! For a while I was mad, I felt betrayed, now Im happy and grateful Michael introduced me to the teachings and methods of OSHO.
So the community of RW is continuing to support the lie. It is so clear why their was/is always a weird secrecy trip in RW. When you build a community on that big of a lie, it is going to seep out everywhere it can, whenever it can. Hence cameras all over their new property in L.A. that looks like a weed dispensary instead of a welcoming, open spiritual center. Maggi use say “Michael is so clean”, not so much. One time Michael said he was turning sickies into seekers…who was the sick one. Michael modeled himself after OSHO totally. From his cars, to his watches, to his custom clothes, to calling the center the RANCH, to the people he quoted (he was quoting OSHO quoting people).
Michael had the gal to say I was like Judas on this forum, that I betrayed him and do I know the story of Judas etc. Michael was a sannyasin of OSHO and didn’t pay respect to his teacher. In fact, he betrayed us all pretending and taking credit for creating the methods of RW. Michael often spoke of the need to develop a strong healthy ego. A healthy ego would be open about being with OSHO and using his methods to help evolve a community. Michael sharply put anyone in check if they asked about his travels in India. Even on Michael’s web site he mentions a teacher or two, but no OSHO. Everything he did and all that his community does currently is the energy and methodology of OSHO, they should know and honor that….to be real and straight, that is if you want to live authentically.
Michael did have a great quality of being present and facilitating the teachings of OSHO. He did create a community of 300 plus people in spite of doing it hiding the fact that the blueprint was barrowed. Imagine if Michael was straight and he didn’t hide the beauty of his teacher, THAT IS A MAJOR FLAW. The secrecy factor scared a lot of people away…good people. Most of them were shunned, me included. I haven’t talked to my sister or her family for over 6 years, they are all in RW, I introduced them to Michael, and now to OSHO…. and I betrayed Michael, HUH!
One more thing, OSHO was the most open and wise teacher of our age. All of his teachings and discourses are open to all and it has always been that way, if OSHO was CLOSED LIKE MICHAEL WAS THERE WOULDN’T EVEN BE A ROYAL WAY…think about that current RW members and ostracizers! You either face the truth or you don’t, your head is in the sand or its not! Free yourself and Michael of this unnecessary lie. YOU HAVE ALL BEEN DOING OSHO FOR YEARS AND YEARS…EVERY MEDITATION YOU DO CAME FROM OSHO. If you’re a community of true seekers you’ll want to see, if your not, your not!
Your true friend and seeker!
Re: Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael - Need Info
Posted by:
desciple
()
Date: October 30, 2013 04:32AM
Quote
Anon1234
Sharon, just post the "writing" that I read. I am sure you have read it and know which one I am talking about.
Only then, with this orginal content in mind, can people make their own determination about the value of RW. You infer this writing is not secret, so just post it.
If you do post it, I will edit and delete all of my so called "venomous attacks" because then forum readers will have the primary facts for themselves and not need my research findings, both fact and opinion.
Go ahead and post the writing for all of us to read. This is a really simple request.
Re: Royal Way/Jacumba/Ranch/Michael Gottlieb
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: October 30, 2013 04:52AM
[www.ncjrs.gov]
Quote
NCJ 221407
Title: Scapegoating: Another Step Towards Understanding the Processes Generating Bullying in Groups?
Journal: Journal of School Violence Volume:6 Issue:4 Dated:2007 Pages:81 to 103
Author(s): Roz Dixon
Date Published: 2007
Page Count: 23
Publisher: [www.haworthpressinc.com]
Type: Report (Study/Research)
Language: English
Country: United States of America
Annotation: The study explored experiences of peer relationships within the deaf and hearing impaired population.
Abstract: The study concluded that scapegoating was an unconscious group process, established during the second stage of group development to prevent the group from disintegrating as a result of unexpressed resentment towards the group’s leader.
Recognizing that power can be exploited as well as used to the benefit of others, the group will move from dependency upon its leader to a desire to share power. This is not dependent on whether the leader is abusive or exploitative. Until sharing occurs, the group will direct the frustration they feel towards the leader onto the scapegoat.
Should the leader refuse to share power, scapegoating is likely to be exacerbated. These attacks are likely to be varied in form and to include hurtful rejecting behavior. During this period there will be pressure to conform within the group, and there are likely to be splits and competitiveness between group members. The scapegoat may be an individual or a subgroup and the role may be passed between members or subgroups. If the appointed scapegoat is not available, another individual or sub-group will be scapegoated.
A scapegoat is selected because they symbolize the unconscious conflicts within the group, they are resilient, and, unconsciously, they collude with the group in taking on the role to save the group from disintegration. The need for a scapegoat will be resolved when the group finally directs its frustration directly towards its leader and successfully challenges them to share power. At that point, the scapegoat will be reintegrated into the group, signaling the group’s increasing ability to accept difference.
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