I am starting this thread to discuss this topic.

Klemmer & Associates does target Christians and I will share later how, and also give points of reference that is verifiable to show this aspect.

Remember, I have been all through Klemmers seminars and I have also been Christian for 32 years.

I will work very hard at not posting any messages with preaching in it. What a person chooses to believe is their choice. I will not judge it.

Yet, I will ask not to be judged for my faith in the same manner.

This topic will involve discussing faith issues, yet it will be done on my end to expose Klemmer & Associates and their hypocrisy that I have seen and experienced first hand.

So, I will post more later. Please post any questions you may want to ask me about why I am making such a bold statement as this.

Klemmer & Associates and Christianity do not mix.

More will be posted later.

Thanks

Having a God of the universe awareness is far different than having a personal relationship that is based on the salvation message of the cross that is within the Christian faith.

This is a huge difference between Klemmer and Christianity.

More will be shared.

Keep watching.

Hello Rswinters

Here is a link to an article on christianity and out of body experiences (OBEs)

[www.allabouttheoccult.org]

Based on my experience and the accounts of others on this board, I think the initial seminars are designed to induce OBEs and then associate the induced feeling of universal love, peace etc with the organisation and all the other teachings.It also gives the impression that the organisation has amazing powers, which they don't.

Very deceptive of these groups to induce OBEs without telling you in advance (or even after the fact!) what they are doing.


Enjoy.

Thanks for the link. Very good read. Klemmer definitely operates from the philosphy around "out of body experience"

At first, I didn't think it was a applicable connection. Until I went to link and read all of it.

Then it could not be denied. Exactly, and very well stated.

Thanks.

I posted this on the topic thread of The Secret.

Since Klemmer & Associates focus in their seminars is to break a participant down by confronting core belief systems and then deceptively replace these core belief systems with "The Secret" belief system by the end of their last seminar called "Samurai Camp".

This is the belief system that Klemmer bait & switches with what you show up with at first seminar.

I as a Christian was appalled at what I allowed myself to be brain washed with by Klemmer.

Here is what I posted about the movie "The Secret" and its perspective on the law of attraction.

oops didn't finish post

Biblically its a daily relationship with Him and letting Him confront me on my behavior.

Its daily going to the cross and letting God confront my behavior.

It is also letting God say no to things I ask for. It is letting Him direct my life by his biblical guidelines.

The Secret approaches God as a universal genie.

While making it a one way interaction with the universe or God.

Oh yes, there is the aspect of allowing for the feel good aspects of the Universe, or God to be felt by them.

Yet, the righteous judgement of God in their lives is dismissed and ignored.

The biblical God wants to drive the narcissism, hedonism, and humanism out of our lives.

Thats the God of the universe.

Not this spiritual genie that The Secret Portrays

Jesus Christ and Salvation are not to be found in Klemmer & Associates definition of Christianity.

There defininition of God is a genie of the universe.

Sorry. Not a biblical definition by a long shot.

Klemmer & Associates talk god talk. But thats all they do.

Like I said Jesus Christ and Salvation is not part of the definition for them.

Which makes the universe/god being a genie to be used to get what I want mentality a very nice sounding one as the bible is disected and the parts that are nice sounding are embraced and the hard parts are ignored and removed from philosphy of life.

Can't have that negative side of God. It won't fit the philosphy of Klemmer & Associates doctrine.

I will share more later.

By the way. For the Christians reading this post. Too bad there was not a way to show how many divorces are encouraged by Klemmers Philosphy versus trying to sort out and save a marriage.

Marriage is not a sacred union in Klemmers eyes. I am saying this from first hand experience of Klemmers dealings with a marriage in conflict.

I posted this on the Klemmer topic thread.

I will cut & paste for you to read here. I made a couple of statements in message that I wanted to post on this topic thread.

Posted: 06-22-2007 12:12 PM Post subject: Klemmer & Associates and Mental Health Malpractices

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Klemmer & Associates and all the other Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT) companies use experiential learning techniques that fall within cognitive learning that falls within Mental Health.

There are many stringent guidlelines for the Medical side in Healthcare in our nation. The Mental health aspect is beginning to be recognized as just as important.

There have been many changes in our society, and legal realm within the Mental healthcare realm.

In time there will be legal protection from such companies as Klemmer & Associates and how they are choosing to take advantage of the loop holes, and the lack of legal requirements for these companies to be licensed to operate within the realm that is required to be properly trained, and legally regulated.

In time, in time. The malpractice that is being performed within the Mental Health realm of participants psyches will be exposed, and regulated.

In time these companies will be held accountable for the harm that is being done in confronting peoples core belief systems and brainwashing us with mind control technigues that open us up to swapping out our core belief systems with that of the companies belief system.

Klemmer & Associates says that I must experience their seminars. Well, I have and found it extremely destructive.

My core beliefs that are deeper than the brainwashing of Klemmer was able to perform on me has finally won out.

I now see Klemmer for what it is, and I want nothing to do with it.

In my opinion. Klemmer is a platform for new age philosphy based on narcissism, hedonism, and humanism.

Yes, they declare a belief in God. Yet this new age belief in God is nothing I want in my life.

There is much reference in the bible to this perception of God. There is much said in the bible on the true source of this delusion, and great deception.

Klemmer & Associates god is not the same God of the bible.

The God of the bible has the gateway being Jesus Christ as the gate keeper for having a intimate relationship with the God of the bible.

I will pass on having any relationship with Klemmers god.

Quote
Rswinters
Klemmer & Associates does target Christians and I will share later how, and also give points of reference that is verifiable to show this aspect.

I wanted to follow up on this promise that I made here.

I have found much reference material to validate my statements made in my messages. Yet, I have not kept up on posting to this topic thread.

Here is what I realized. This website, and many others have the informaiton available for you to read. I do not need to fill up this thread with messages from me linking you to them on this topic thread.

So, Here is my challenge. The verifiable references to show the validity of my statements, and claims are out there. Many are on this website, and many other members have posted links to the information available to read.

Stop being lazy. Get digging, reading, thinking, and using your critical thinking to guide you.

Your critical thinking will guide, and protect you from such messed up philosphies as Klemmers.

I bought into it for almost 2 years and allowed myself to be brainwashed by them as I chose a short cut in life.

I did not want to be emotionally mature, and use wisdom to guide me.

I wanted a quick fix. I got a sweet tasting seminar that delivered huge promises in relationships, and found it to be a delusion.

I never have been able to, nor will I ever be able to stop an abusive person from being abusive to me. No matter how much I change the meaning of how I am percieving it.

Abuse is abuse.

Klemmer. Shame on you for brainwashing participants into thinking I am responsible for anohter abusive behavior.

Shame, shame, shame.

Since we are talking about how Klemmer & Associates do not mix together.

Listen to this sermon. I apologize to those who are offended by anything in connection to the Bible, or Christianity.

Yet if you choose to listen to this sermon and pay particular attention to what is being said about taking shortcuts, and covering over the internal rumble strips in us internally.

I failed to head this wisdom. I allowed for Klemmers philosphy to disconnect my rumble strips in my life. Which would have safeguarded me from hitting the cement guardrails in life.

I let Klemmers philosphy turn off the early warning system these internal rumble strips provide for me.

So, listen to this sermon. Remove the religious aspect and listen to the key principles and life applications that are in this message.

I failed to keep these principles in view, and am paying heavy prices for trying to take Klemmers shortcuts, and quick fixes in my life.

[www.easthill.org]

Klemmer & Associates philosophy foundation is based on "The Secret" so read, and study as much as you can on this philosophy if you are considering going through Klemmers seminars. This is what you will end up embracing as a philosophy in going.

Here is a link you have got to watch. It is a little obnoxious and has some offensive language. But, the core of what it is pointing out is too good not to post on this topic thread.

Klemmer & Associates seminars will start you out thinking it is founded on biblical and Godly principals. Yet when you get to the end of all of Brian Klemmer seminars you will have embraced the philosophy of "The Secret" in your life if it took.

In my case the philosophy contradicted my faith in God, and belief in Jesus Christ and what that makes me confront in my life.

Which is confronting and removing the narcissism, hedonism, and humanism that is in me. This philosphy fails when you have two people embracing this philosphy and the other wants to have healthy relational interactions with proper limits and boundaries within a relationship.

"The Secret" and Klemmer & Associates solution is Divorce, and not being accountable for behavior that is brought to a relationship that the other doesn't like to be experienced.

Klemmers solution is to see the other person as the problem/negative and therefore remove yourself from problem/negative.

versus working out a mutual solution. If it involves conflict in resolution. Well that’s just a negative that is the other persons problem not yours.

Here is the clip. I have gone through all of Klemmers seminars and fully bought into this crap philosophy and have severely suffered consequences in doing so.

[www.youtube.com]

Here is what I posted immediately after watching the clip.

Oh my gosh. This was hilarious. If it was not for the fact that I bought into this crap philosphy and destroyed my life by applying it.

I would probably have watched this clip, and not found the humor in it.

I laughed so hard at the end of it. I got tears in my eyes.

Because even though this is extreme in making fun of "The Secret" philosophy.

The philosophy is so extreme that it needs to be dealt with in extreme ways.

Enjoy the clip.

Thanks caligari for posting it for us
Here is what I posted after watching it the first time.