Posted this in the wrong place earlier, and got no responses at all - would be grateful if someone could view this and respond!

A friend of mine has been going to [b:4e22555d13][u:4e22555d13]Avatar[/u:4e22555d13][/b:4e22555d13] for over a year and thinks they are the best thing out. Despite trying to convince him that this is a cult, he makes light of this or jokes about going on his "brainwashing" courses.

As far as he is concerned they have taught him a lot (about how to brush away rumours of it being a cult!) and he "won't give them up" (that piece of information being unsolicited from me) - not only that his mother and sister are also involved in these courses.

I kind of wish I could just plant a word, or a seed in his mind about the danger of these courses. I have sent URLs etc. (such as this one) but I don't think he even looks at them.

He is about to leave his wife as he wants children and she didn't - and is now approaching the menopause - but he loves her. There's more but I won't bore you now! What can I do to usefully either support him or point him in a different direction? It has already been suggested that he take some form of counselling "in between courses".

Any ideas gratefully received.

T

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twigkat
Posted this in the wrong place earlier, and got no responses at all - would be grateful if someone could view this and respond!

A friend of mine has been going to [b:bb7618bd14][u:bb7618bd14]Avatar[/u:bb7618bd14][/b:bb7618bd14] for over a year and thinks they are the best thing out. Despite trying to convince him that this is a cult, he makes light of this or jokes about going on his "brainwashing" courses.

As far as he is concerned they have taught him a lot (about how to brush away rumours of it being a cult!) and he "won't give them up" (that piece of information being unsolicited from me) - not only that his mother and sister are also involved in these courses.

I kind of wish I could just plant a word, or a seed in his mind about the danger of these courses. I have sent URLs etc. (such as this one) but I don't think he even looks at them.

He is about to leave his wife as he wants children and she didn't - and is now approaching the menopause - but he loves her. There's more but I won't bore you now! What can I do to usefully either support him or point him in a different direction? It has already been suggested that he take some form of counselling "in between courses".

Any ideas gratefully received.

T

Hi,

I don't know why Avatar isn't listed in this site's group database but here's a link to the Factnet page on them. It's another scientology spin-off.

[www.factnet.org]


EZ

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ezdoesit
Hi,

I don't know why Avatar isn't listed in this site's group database but here's a link to the Factnet page on them. It's another scientology spin-off.

[www.factnet.org]

EZ

Thanks for that - very helpful. However there must be a series of questions that I could ask him to get him to question his involvement?

Any ideas? Wonder where else I could look for this info...

Thanks again for posting :) :)

See also on these boards under cults, sects and new religious movements:

[board.culteducation.com]

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question lady
See also on these boards under cults, sects and new religious movements:

[board.culteducation.com]

Unfortunately I get this message when I click on the link: "The topic or post you requested does not exist" ... :(

I'll try again:

[board.culteducation.com]

If the link doesn't work, the posts are under Cults, Sects, and New Age, rather than LGAT's. The topic is "new cult called Avatar". The posts were from March 2005 & appear to contain some links. You can also find by searching the board with the term 'avatar" Good luck to you.

I also have a friend who has recently gotten involved and it is moving so quickly I can't believe it. His wife was caught totally blindsided by this and he also has other family members - who I think got him involved with this - so they are all turning against her.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to get thru to this person - is some kind of intervention required - and how difficult is that. I would appreciate hearing from anyone on de-programming or intervention methods - are they legal?

thanks,

I was also blindsided by my husband's involvement in another "LGAT" program. (The Release Technique marketed by Larry Crane). The more I learn about all of these programs I am struck by the similarity of their techniques). I wish I'd known then what I know now. I really blew it at first and made things worse. I blasted by husband with an onslaught of critical information. This was not helpful and drove him further in. We aren't out of the woods yet by any means but what has been helpful is :

to remain consistently loving and concerned

to keep or re-establish rapport

to shift the focus from "getting him out of the group" to empowering him to think for himself.

when he uses thought stopping cliches or group jargon, ask for clarification of what that means

ask open ended questions and be prepared to wait a long time for an answer

getting him out of town for a time to break the daily interaction with the group

You aren't alone. There are many people on these boards whose relationships have been damaged by groups with mind control characteristics.

Mr. Ross has great coping tips. [www.culteducation.com]

The family connection
[www.freeminds.org]

Steve Hassan
[video.google.com]

[www.freedomofmind.com]

Here is a post from these boards under the topic Landmark that I have found very helpful:

Ether Dragon,

Sorry to hear about what happened with your wife. This is very sad and your feelings/reaction are normal. It sounds like your wife is still on the initial "high" from the Forum, and this will be an exciting time for her and a difficult time for you. It's like a drug and they don't want to let go of it and right now Landmark can do no wrong. She has a coach and a new family of self-affirming friends that praise her every move and word. It's addicting -- and Landmark knows it.

This self-affirming atmosphere is why debating her doesn't work. It just drives them deeper into Landmark's grasp. It's human nature to move towards approval, and I believe Landmark counts on that. I know it's hard not to debate and tell her the truth you know, but she is resistant right now. They are trained to resist debate especially from concerned loved ones/friends/etc. and they are trained well. Her coach will keep re-affirming Landmark philosophy to her, so they have an internal support system. It's infuriating, but that's the reality.

The best advice I can give is that which I received: be supportive of her activities outside of Landmark, don't debate or argue with her about Landmark now, let her bring up the subject and when she does, gently discuss your concerns with her. Essentially, back off and wait for her to come down off the high and for the resistance to weaken some. Be prepared for "blocking" techniques that dismiss your information (you can search the board for more info on that). You have to be a welcoming place, or she won't want to come back and discuss it with you. If and when she wants to leave, then you'll be there and able to help her. Until then, you just have to stay in the game. She may never be ready to leave, in which case at some point you have to decide how much of this you can take. You have to take care of yourself too and not be a martyr. Unfortunately, the road out of Landmark is a lot longer and more uncertain than the road in.

Thanks Question Lady,
There is a lot of good info in your post and I will pass it on. I think the biggest problem is that there is a much faster timeline on my friends situation and he is already moving to sell their home. I don't think there is much time for communication between them.

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question lady
to shift the focus from "getting him out of the group" to empowering him to think for himself.

Although all the points Q-lady presented here are very good, I think this one especially needs emphasis. This is primarily what a friend did for me that helped me get out of the group I was [i:14eeae518a]deeply[/i:14eeae518a] involved with