...and can help me decipher what's happening here?

Hi..
Before I ask for yet more help, I just wanted to say that I know it seems like I only pop up when something has happened with me. But I do read everyone's posts. I just don't know how much I have to contribute. That being said..
Is there anyone who has done some of the more advanced courses with Landmark and can help to point out what's been "coached" and what (if anything) could be real from these emails? I haven't heard from this girl in about a month, and then she emails me in the middle of the night to apologize for gossiping about me behind my back. I replied, telling her that I know she has always talked sh*t about me, and couldn't expect that to change once we stopped talking. I also questioned her motives for telling me--if she had not told m that she was gossiping about me, there's no way I would have known. Tonight, I got her reply to that email:

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It sounds like my e-mail confused you and even upset you. I know if I had received an e-mail from you saying that you had been talking shit about me behind my back I'd be very hurt and confused as well. I take complete responsibility for leaving you with that feeling.

When we were friends I never respected you, and I totally understand that you would think that I still don't respect you. I also know that for you my word means nothing (hell it hasn't meant much to me either). What I'm taking on in my life right now is restoring my word, for myself and for others. I am tackling my integrity. I know you may not believe it, but you can count on me to never gossip about you again.

One of the things I'm up to in my life is having a life where I am respectful and related to everyone I know, from my closest friend to the strangers I pass on the street, everyone. And I would love to create that with you.

Two things that are exceptionally humorous to me. One: The fact that she thinks her first email had some profound effect on me. Really, I just wondered where on earth it came from, and why she felt the need to tell me she was talking badly about me. And two: Now that we're no longer friends, she wants to be "respectful" and "related" to my life?

Does anyone know what any of this garble means?
Thanks (sorry I rambled for so long)

Its just landmark gobledygook literally. She would have "created" a "possiblity" from her inauthenticity and by sharing that with you she gets to feel better. Interestingly enough, often what people share at this point hurts the other person more then if they had just kept their mouth shut!

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sonnie_dee
Its just landmark gobledygook literally. She would have "created" a "possiblity" from her inauthenticity and by sharing that with you she gets to feel better. Interestingly enough, often what people share at this point hurts the other person more then if they had just kept their mouth shut!

That was exactly the point I was trying to make when I wrote her back. Judging from her reply, it seems like she was not only expecting to hurt me, but hoping to! I let her know that not only did she not hurt me, but that she doesn't have the power to. If nothing else, it will give her something new to "share" at landmark, right? Perhaps "create a possibility" for a "breakthrough"?

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leftcoast8

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sonnie_dee
Its just landmark gobledygook literally. She would have "created" a "possiblity" from her inauthenticity and by sharing that with you she gets to feel better. Interestingly enough, often what people share at this point hurts the other person more then if they had just kept their mouth shut!

That was exactly the point I was trying to make when I wrote her back. Judging from her reply, it seems like she was not only expecting to hurt me, but hoping to!

I've noticed this too -- one of the reasons why I think Landmark is all about teaching selfishness in the name of relating better to others. My friend seems intent on telling me what she wants, without regard to empathy, sympathy, consideration, etc. of me. It's all about her. Like sonnie_dee said, [b:5f84876c54]SHE [/b:5f84876c54]gets to feel better. Why would I want to partake of that? I believe Landmark and other LGATs teach people to be the sun in their solar system, and expect others to "relate" to them as planets around that sun (and, for some, a mere solar system isn't big enough!). LGATs supposedly want to get people to get their ego "out of the way," but from what I've seen their work only puffs that ego up to grandiosity. LGATs turn everything on it's head. Someone who really wants to relate to you CARES about what you think and how things will affect you. They want [b:5f84876c54]YOU [/b:5f84876c54]to feel better.

Leftcoast, don't worry about asking for help. That's why this board exists. I did the same thing when I started. You might surprise yourself on how much you have to contribute. I welcome your comments -- feel free to throw your thoughts in when you get the urge.

-lighwolf

Leftcoast8,

Please continue to post.

Your thread topic is of interest to many people. At another forum I visit from time to time, a forum for people in relationships with verbally abusive people, someone started a thread that her abusive boyfriend went to Landmark and as part of his "homework", called her to tell her how inauthentic he had been. She was very suspicious of his motives and furious when she found out she was part of his "assignment." Of course, nothing had changed in this guy to make her think he was sincere. She viewed it as "Hoovering" on his part, his attempt to suck her back in to his psychopathology. I was happy to see she started that thread because several people chimed in that the same thing had happened with their SOs.

Keep posting.

Hope

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I am tackling my integrity. I know you may not believe it, but you can count on me to never gossip about you again.

This thing about gossiping was introduced during the ILP. It was one of the things your promised - not to gossip. But it was also used by LEC to control you. You were supposed to always talk to the right person - the person you wanted to gossip about. This ensure that you reveal any "bad things" to your supervisor/coach or just repress your feelings/thoughts about the gossipee .

To say that you can count on me to "never gossip about you again" is to give away your freedom. Gossip exists for a reason - that you can talk about things and people. But of course there is the damaging gossip that maybe we'd be better off without.

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One of the things I'm up to in my life is having a life where I am respectful and related to everyone I know, from my closest friend to the strangers I pass on the street, everyone. And I would love to create that with you.

Oh this landmark speak - "I'm up to" - "create that" - what BS!

nettie

This is what happens with most of Landmark's breakthroughs. The course leader will tell you the importance of integrity and how you are out of integrity and that's why your life doesn't work. And of course then, you want to find where you are out of integrity so you do a really thorough search through your life where things have gone wrong, and you go and call the people involved and own up to your inauthenticity.

But you're so jazzed up with idea of "I'm going to get into integrity and my life is going to start working again!" that you don't realise that you're making mountains out of molehills, you're calling people and apoligising for stuff that the they don't give a sh*t about! And they're thinking: "gee what is this guy on about, I barely remember that incident, he really sounds like he's lost it! Better pacify him." So they validate your apology, and BAM! You've got a breakthrough!

But in actual fact, you've DAMAGED the relationship and the communication, because now the other person is thinking "wow that was weird, better stick that in the old <insert your name here> file." And they're going to relate to you from that standpoint from then on, particularly if you keep up the odd behavior (including enrollment and registration etc.) And that in a nutshell is how Landmark damages relations, especially in the beginning when people are learning about enrollment and they don't know how to control their newfound language, later on they "coach" you to be more sneaky with that.

Also, landmarkers have a tendency to only correct imaginary messups or overly exaggerated minor ones. I have a landmark friend (and he's quite high up in the organisation) who when he apoligises to me it's for something small that I barely noticed or cared about, or for things where I'm just like "WTF??" When it comes to the real sh*t where he really does hurt me, I hardly ever hear a peep.

For example, he was having a birthday party and I offered to create him a birthday invitation to send out to his friends. So I email it to him so he can print it out and I get no response. I ask him if he likes the invitation the next day and he says "no, I don't like the invitation and I'm not going to be using that." Now according to most codes of conduct that would be considered rude, (and honestly I didn't care that much, I let it slide because I'm a bit of a doormat and I really like the guy as a friend) but he never cleaned it up, and that could have been a cause for real upset.

Wow. I'm utterly dumbfounded. Wow.
After my first response, she tells me how "hurt" I appear. I write back these exact words:

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First of all, there's one thing that needs to be clear. Your email did not hurt or upset me. The truth is that you have very little, if any, power to hurt me.

To which she responds:

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I apologize for not getting your communication clearly. You're last e-mail left me with the impression that you are pissed off at me, and hurt. If you are pissed at me, I totally deserve that.

And then rants on for two pages full of language and I can't understand. [u:eb5e7e1828]All[/u:eb5e7e1828] of it, very obviously, lek-speak. Here are the "good parts." (Ellipses denote clipped text.) I'm hoping that someone who's been through Landmark can translate some of this, if there even is a translation. Warning: Those of you with bad experiences may shudder. I've never done anything Landmark-related, and the language even makes [i:eb5e7e1828]me[/i:eb5e7e1828] cringe.

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Yeah I never respected you as my friend... I wasn't respecting you by not understanding your communications clearing. I wasn't respecting you when I gave up on our friendship... The impact that has on me is that I never really got to know you, and what you are really all about, and what you are up to in life. I robbed myself of that opportunity. That has left me with feeling frustrated, angry, and actually very sad. What I've seen recently is that I walk out on people and things in my life before I ever really give them any effort at all. I had this crazy idea that things would never work out at all, and rather than try I would just quit. I'm not committed to that anymore.

Yes, I do respect you now... I will honor your feelings and your feelings toward me. I will never give up on whatever relationship we have (whether it's never talking again, or becoming friends again). In that e-mail I sent you I never said that being your friend again was out of the question. In fact that e-mail was a huge mistake. I handled that situation poorly.

I get that you think Landmark is what disintegrated our friendship. What disintegrated our friendship was me, and the choices that I made. I've said this before and I'll say it again. You do not need to do Landmark Education to have an amazing life. No one needs to do Landmark to have an amazing life. That was never the impression I meant to leave you with and I apologize for that. I care about you, and am committed that you have everything you want for your life. I'm committed that you have an amazing life that you love, that lights you up everyday, where you can't wait to get out of bed in the morning to start your day.

I also what to thank you for reading my e-mails and responding. It really takes something to step up like you have.

The only real reaction that all of this has elicited from me is some fairly severe eye-rolling. Is there anything about this that I should be taking seriously? I'm not being mean in my responses; distant, perhaps, but that's because this all seems so utterly absurd to me.
So... yeah. Wow.

Well what she's basically doing is taking your expressed anger at landmark and directing it at herself. No matter what you say, she's not going to be able to accept criticism towards landmark, she's already had the trap built into her that if she wants this amazing life (I believe they call it "living life powerfully and living a life you love") she's going to have to accept full responsibility for any upset she has as a result of her using the tech. She says it right there in the email "I handled that situation poorly." This is a trap they build in early on which basically leaves landmark bulletproof and beyond reproach. This by its very nature makes it a dangerous thing, promoting unwavering faith in the tech, even when it causes harm to relationships.

Telling you that she'll "never give up on whatever relationship we have" is sneaky, she's thinking that she's being totally selfless in taking the blame and that her motives are pure (which in her mind, they are, remember that part) where as in fact it's tricky because it makes you feel guilty and cons you into giving her her "win."

"You do not need to do Landmark Education to have an amazing life. No one needs to do Landmark to have an amazing life." I've heard this from people before and it's what someone within the organisation will tell an outsider, that this education is just the "cherry on top of the sundae" that you don't need to do our courses to be happy. But really behind closed doors they're saying (and I've had this said directly to me by a course leader when I was trying to leave) "Don't you want to be living life powerfully and living a life you love?" In other words, do you really want to go back to your life of rackets, winning formula's etc etc.

"It really takes something to step up like you have." Meaningless flattery. She's actually quite unhappy with the result and wants you to give up your rackets.

All of this stuff reminds me of another "program" where members are admonished to "make amends" for slights, such as "holding a resentment" against someone else, by calling them or writing to tell them about it.

(Imagine the surprise of receiving a phone call from someone who apologizes for having been formerly angry with you, claims to now be over their anger, and you never even knew about the resentment in the first place.)

In the other program the wording has been changed somewhat; "don't quit before the miracle happens", and if you persist, you will surely receive "the promises".

"Lek-think" and "Lek-speak" have influenced the techniques of many a self-help organization, so it would appear.