I got this email from my sister this morning. She said one of her co-workers had sent it to a bunch of people at their work. "Landmark" had stuck in her head since she had heard me speak of it (and not in a good way) so she forwarded this to me and said "Is this the program you were talking about?"

WORD of MOUTH is IMPORTANT!! That is why LE gets their drones to spread the word. And it's just as important for the other side of the story to be told. So more kudos to all of you and RR for hosting this forum.

============== FORWARD ===============
I want to share with you what I did this weekend. I had the time of my life at Landmark Education. I found out so many things that had been holding me back in my life, and now that those are out of the way I have nothing but limitless possibility in my future! Out of this education I also got my Mom back in my life after not speaking for over 5 years, and now there's nothing between us but love! I got my brother back too after over two years, and I couldn't be happier!

This education is about producing break-through results in all the areas of your life. It especially works on the areas that already are working as well. Consider for a moment that you are like a pebble hitting the water. You are the cause of all the ripples that touch every part of your life, if any part isn't working the way you want it to, it far more productive to work on the source of the ripple, rather than the ripple itself, because then next time you hit the water, you'll make the same ripple!

Tuesday night is a free night for you to come check it out and see if you're interested. I've attached a map to get you there, The building is right up the street on Dry Creek Rd. and the evening starts at 7pm.,and you should know that if you choose to register the tuition is 425 dollars.

I'm inviting all of you because I want you to get what I got, my whole life! I really hope to see all of you there, if you come I'm sure you'll remember the night forever.

Could someone explain to me why all of these pseudo-testimonial emenations have the same breathless, gushy, California valley girl, infomercialish.... ummmm....[i:73e36a76ba] inauthenticity [/i:73e36a76ba] about them.... this needy, insistent, oh so sincere, pestering, childish, wide eyed, prim, schoolmarmish [i:73e36a76ba] tone [/i:73e36a76ba] of chirpy bubbly pizzazz .... just like recommending a good restauant to a friend.... of course, my sweet, so if that logical linkage is coherent, then it would have to make as much sense if the terms were reversed.... not that logic and coherence are given that much weight in thses precincts.... as in [b:73e36a76ba] "talking about this restauant is no different that recommending a Large Group Awareness Training !!!! Yeeehaw!!! " [/b:73e36a76ba] Sounds a little fucked up, suggestionwise, tonewise, experiencewise, do it not ? You would be therefore tempted to experience such a restaurant ? I think decidedly not. Well, reducido ad absurdam, why not then say, [b:73e36a76ba] "recommending this LGAT is no different than sharing a great hemorrhoid suppository" [/b:73e36a76ba] ... if the logic in case A holds water, LGAT= great restaurant, then why doesn't the logic in case B, LGAT= hemhorroid suppository ? Maybe they could clarify this... errrr, distinction for us.

I think they're just given a template and told to fill in the blanks and send out to everyone they know.


Here's a Babel Fish round-trip through German:

============== FORWARD ===============, which I would like to divide with you, what I did this weekend. I had the time of my life at the boundary stone training. I found so many things out, which had held me back in my life, and now there which I are with difficulty accessible, have you nothing however boundless possibility in my future! Now from this training I got also my Mamma into my life back, after I had not spoken for more rueber 5 years, and give it to nothing between us however love! I received my brother back to afterwards over two years, and I could not be luckier! This training is over producing of results of break-through in all ranges of your life. It particularly functions on the ranges, which work already in addition. Regard during one moment that you are like a flint, which strikes the water. They are the cause that whole ripples, which each part of your life, if any part does not work on the way, wish you affect them too, it far more productively to work on the source of the ripples instead of the ripples, because then you strike the following mark the water, form you the same ripples! Tuesday night is a free night, so that you come out and see examination it, if you are interested. I attached a diagram, in order there too received you, am the building right the road on dry tributary of round bar and the evening begin up at 7pm., and you should know that, if you decide to register, instruction 425 dollar amount to. I invite whole you, because I wish you received which I received, my complete life! I really hope to see whole you there if you are I reliably come that you always remember the night.


And Italian:

=============== that OF GONE of the ============== I wish to be shared with you that what I have made this fine week. I have had the period of my life to formation of the limit. I have uncovered many things that had been held me behind in my life and hour that those are removed I do not have nothing but limitless possibility in future mine! From this formation moreover I have obtained mine mom in my life after behind not to have spoken for beyond 5 years and hour is nothing between we but love! I have obtained my posterior part of the brother too much after in two years and I could not be happier! This formation is approximately supplying turns out you of innovation in all the zones of your life. It works particularly to the zones that they are already working pure. It considers for a moment that you are like a pebble that hits the water. You are the cause of all the undulation that touches every part of your life, if whichever part is not working the sense the wished ones to, it the much most productive one in order to work to the source of the undulation, rather than the undulation in if, because then the next time hit the water, will make the same undulation! The night of tuesday decoy is a free night affinchè control it and in order to see if you are interested. I have fixed a program in order to obtain it here, the construction is skillful on the way on dry insenatura Rd. and the evening begins to 7pm. and would have to know that if you choose to record the scholastic taxes they are of 425 dollars. I am inviting it because I wish them to obtain that what I have obtained, my entire life! I really hope to see it here, if you come I I am sure that you will always remember yourselves in order of the night.

and some russian:

I wish to divide with you, that I have made in this уикэнд. I had time of my life in Significant Formation. I have learned a lot of prophetic which have constrained me in my life, and now when those is outside of a way which I have only a boundless opportunity in my future! From this formation I also have returned my Mum in my life after not conversation within more than 5 years, and now there is nothing between us, but love! I have returned my brother also after more than two years, and I could not be happier!

This formation - about creation of large achievement, results in all areas of your life. It especially influences areas which already work also. Believe for an instant, that you resemble a pebble amazing water. You - the reason of all ripples which concerns each part of your life if any part will not work a way which you want that it to, is much more productive influenced a source of a ripples, instead of a ripples is direct, because then in following ....

and Korean, my favorite... this one I think truly captures the full flavor of Landmark speech patterns:

It goes out and as this I of grudge what share this weekend in you and
Sip i increase. Me in landmark education there was an hour of my life.
Me inside my living it is a retention or after and if it found out the
like this many thing, the B where them will be isolated is anything it
does not have a limitless possibility but inside my future,! From this
education me 5 years above for after talking, inside my living also to
expel my mom after, now us but between loving anything! Me at 2 years
me it will too much get after the sibling after, the possibility of
being happier it was not,!

This education brings a breach result inside all area of your life and
to refer it is. It is special in the area where it is already working
with sameness and it works. The gravel where you hit the target the
adjacent waters during short time do to spare the thing. Afterwords
that time when the what kind of portion method does not work spreads
out in order for hour you to hit the target the adjacent waters all it
touches each portion of your life which is a cause of the wave which
sleeps in origin of the wave which sleeps to it it spreads out,
production it it works it wants far,, the wave form which sleeps
rather, a l thing which will make the identical percentageth cup wave
which it spreads out,!

and of course, my own thoughts through the korean roundtrip:

It was different and inside "this restauant talking that it is that it
recommends when with the thing together vast quantity weight.... the
duration.... as that logic which is not reversed inside the thses
respective areas and the consistency connected and gave writing
logical combination cohesion characteristic this imitation certificate
emenations to all the breath which is identical hik there was crooked,
appreciation just to peel and why to who, California valley girl,
regarding them the infomercialish... the.ummmm...
the.inauthenticity.... very was poor, it was persistent, Ohio which is
diligent and sincere to be like this the good restauant.... it is very
careful justly in the eyed, and the friend my sweet thing the rain zz
where together it recommends the bubble which is cheerful is many Oh
the schoolmarmish timbre of the zz, it is young widely and it bothers
must understand.... only, to be like this, as that time it vast
quantity theyn the place or it will can explain and group ceremony
training! ! ! ! Yeeehaw! ! ! "Comfort and the suggestionwise it has
sexual intercourse, some the tonewise and the experiencewise, the
sound which is not it is born? In order to experience the same
restaurant that it will be tempted in like that reason which spreads
out theyn the place? Me positively is not and it thinks. It peels this
LGAT well, the reducido advertisement absurdam that time something to
say to recommend, "and company one hemorrhoidsupposit and, it shares
it sees it is different...

sounds like freaking Finnegan's Wake

LOL....

Yes, it boggles the mind that Landsharkers have been able to convince a single non-English speaking person into even one of their silly seminars. I guess they must hire people to come up with the equivalent buzz-words though how they translate the even sillier "concepts" is beyond me.

Actually, even we English speakers have a hard enough time of it.

[www.nytimes.com]

July 30, 2006
On Language
Learning American
By MARION MCKEONE

Some time ago, my sister spent several months working as an au pair for a wealthy family in Denver. When introducing her to their friends and relatives, the family would pointedly refer to her as “our Irish nanny.” My sister assumed that her nationality was a point of pride; a genealogy snake-oil salesman had just sold them an Irish ancestor for the price of a small country.

As it transpired, it was more of a red flag signaling that verbal roadworks were in progress — she hadn’t yet learned to speak American.

Her first lesson came on Christmas morning. The grandmother and family matriarch handed her an envelope, observing that rather than intervene with her own Midwestern fashion sensibility, it was better to enable my sister’s weird European taste. My sister, who was making the standard $50-a-week au pair’s pittance, opened the envelope and found it thick with $20 bills. Fifty of them, to be precise. “Oh, no,” she protested. “I can’t accept this. No. No, really. It’s far too generous.”

Grandma looked at her quizzically. “If you say so,” she responded. Without further ado, she repossessed the envelope, removed a single $20 bill and handed it to her instead. “Is this about right?” she asked.

Helene swallowed her bile, bit her tongue and nodded mutely as she uttered silent curses. She had been speaking Irish, and Grandma had been speaking American. My sister’s refusal of the money was meant to convey her gratitude and acceptance of the gift. You might think a simple “Thank you” would have done the job a lot more efficiently.

But we Irish just can’t say yes. Or no. It’s not in our genes. In Irish Gaelic, our native tongue, we don’t even have a word for them. The closest is “Is ea,” which means “It is so.” And “Ni hea,” which means “It is not so.” There are, however, about 50 different approximations that indicate various degrees of equivocation.

Our genetic inability to call a spade a spade and our compulsion to say no when we mean yes, and vice versa, are but surface manifestations of a deeply ingrained reflex to subvert, invert and pervert the English language at every opportunity.

In Ireland, the words must fit the rhythm, often at the expense of logic or clarity. Irish Gaelic has its roots in the ancient Goidelic of the Celts. English comes from the Germanic. We may be geographic neighbors, but when it comes to linguistic traits, we’re poles apart.

The great voices of Irish literature possess a unique ability to adapt to the uncomfortable imposition of the Queen’s English on the Irish rhythm while remaining faithful to the ancient traditions of narrative and storytelling. When J.M. Synge was asked about the source for “The Playboy of the Western World,” he is said to have replied, “I never bother whether my plots are typical Irish or not, but my methods are typical.”

This remains true of contemporary Irish writers. Colum McCann, a New York-based Irish novelist, is a case in point. His novel “Dancer” is a fictionalized biography of Rudolf Nureyev. The plot is one that couldn’t have taken place in an Irish context — an Irishman on a dance floor resembles nothing so much as an epileptic sack of suet — but McCann’s narrative is firmly rooted in the Irish storytelling tradition. “The Irish language is convoluted in its grammar, evasive in statement and relies much more on sound, rhythm and onomatopoeia than English does,” he says. “It ducks and swerves. The forced marriage of English to Irish, resulting in what some people call Hiberno-English, has resulted in a great deal of wonderful literature but also a lot of head-scratching.”

For Americans, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. The idea is to get the point across, not fashion it into a pair of earrings. But we Irish are more interested in the journey than the destination, and every exchange presents an opportunity to dawdle, double back and doublespeak.

The liberal, and frequently illogical, peppering of conversations with swearwords by Irish writers is more a method of retaining a rhythmic pattern of speech than an expression of hostility. Shane MacGowan, founder and frontman of the Pogues and arguably the finest songwriter of his generation, colors his lyrics blue because it reflects the Irish way of speaking, of emphasis and underscoring a point. And besides, he says, “they plug the rhythmic gaps.” Nothing like a volley of expletives to ensure that the beat goes on. If you need any further illustration of this point, see “The Lieutenant of Inishmore” or any other play by Martin McDonagh.

MacGowan says that this Irish adaptation of English to its own ends stems as much from an innate rebelliousness as our inability to shake off the persistent rhythms of Irish Gaelic. We resisted the usurping of our native language and its replacement with English by confounding our oppressor with a form of linguistic jujitsu, he says, citing James Joyce’s “Finnegans Wake” as an example: “Joyce was simply taking the inner Irish rhythm to the limit and imposing it on the English language. There were all these mad English language rules that don’t work anyway. The entire book is about pointing out the absurdity of the English language.”

Having grown up in a culture of ambivalence and allusion, I was initially astounded by the staccato, rapid-fire directness of American English. During my first visit to New York, I underwent the standard crash course in learning American. For weeks I navigated the potentially treacherous linguistic minefields. And there were plenty. Hasty clarifications — like “craic,” an Irish term for fun, but not of the variety you buy on a street corner — became less frequent. I thought I had cracked the American language.

Until I made a routine attempt to jaywalk across Fifth Avenue. I was frozen into a state of temporary paralysis by a New York cop who, having blocked my path with a beefy forearm, bellowed, inches from my face: “Whassamatterwitchya? Ya wanna be road pizza, ya [expletive] MORON?” Having achieved his laudable aim of saving my hide, he broke into an enormous grin. “I’m Irish-American,” he said, by way of explanation for the explosive consequences that occur when Irish riddlespeak collides head-on with American directness.

Marion McKeone is an Irish journalist based in New York. William Safire is on vacation.

Which all goes to show that.... language and thought and worldview are intimately related... LGATS that use a constipated, linguistically impoverished "model" of reality will, in essence, entrap the LGATees with a bizarre [b:22a6e1e497] exactly-inexact-clearly-unclear [/b:22a6e1e497] confusing vocabulary loaded with unresolved paradoxes, sort of language as chinese puzzle or M.C. Escher lithograph that goes round and round and round... the up staircase becomes the down staircase... for example, in my est training(s) the trainer would at times use this expression, that seemed to have a specific, almost term of art quality about it, "to show up" ... when the trainer was pleased or something, it wasn't clear how this distinction operated, what its' parameters were, and no attempt was made to clarify what "to show up" meant in this context... [b:22a6e1e497] the trainer would use this term in what appeared to be an almost arbitrary manner... with no more refinement than "what feels right to me at the moment" [/b:22a6e1e497] ...and when I politely, with genuine curiosity, asked the trainer what did he mean by "showing up" he became visibly uneasy, started redirecting the converstaion, and pretty obviously had his head deep up his ass when it came to what the distinction "to show up" was.... After 3 levels of est, various workshops, and so on, I still don't have more than a foggy general idea of "showing up" , and neither do they.... no do I think they really care to think more deeply or precisely about it... as long as it sounds good, has a resounding trainerly ring to it, the group responds by trying to figure out how they too can "show up", generally interpreted as age regressing, ass kissing up to the considerable ego needs of the trainer, or not overtly falling asleep in your chair, I suppose you can be said to "show up" ...

I'm pretty sure this expression came from L. Ron Hubbard's scientology and was/is used by an "auditor" (the guy who fiddles with the dials of an "E-Meter" and asks sort of open-ended questions). As he probes deeper and deeper into problem areas and back down the "time-line." the examinee or pupil ("pre-clear") is supposed to do something like free-associate until a meaty, problematic or emotionally charged impression or fleeting memory "shows up," the recounting of which is supposed to elimiate said "charge" in the old memory banks. (Supposedly derived from the psychological practice called "abreaction.")

If you haven't read "Madman or Messiah" or "A Piece of Blue Sky," you'll recognize a lot of the stuff Werner Erhard pinched from the Co$.



Ellen

Quote
elena
I'm pretty sure this expression came from L. Ron Hubbard's scientology and was/is used by an "auditor" (the guy who fiddles with the dials of an "E-Meter" and asks sort of open-ended questions). As he probes deeper and deeper into problem areas and back down the "time-line." the examinee or pupil ("pre-clear") is supposed to do something like free-associate until a meaty, problematic or emotionally charged impression or fleeting memory "shows up," the recounting of which is supposed to elimiate said "charge" in the old memory banks. (Supposedly derived from the psychological practice called "abreaction.")

If you haven't read "Madman or Messiah" or "A Piece of Blue Sky," you'll recognize a lot of the stuff Werner Erhard pinched from the Co$.

Ellen

It kind of seemed different in intention... couldn't say exactly what they were driving at... "getting IT" was supposed to be this existential moment of clarity about.... well, it wasn't too gettable... funny thing was nobody questioned IT... like you would look stupid in front of everyone if you didn't get what it meant to get IT, like your not getting IT was a weakness or a failing... and this business of "showing up" was even more (or less) of whatever that was... it sounds like Werner Hans borrowed liberally from whatever was lying around, conceptually or theatrically, and whatever meanings.... more likely whatever appearance of meanings, relying on you, the listener to assume that there was a deeper structure under the linguistic surface... kind of came together hodgepodge and the trainers who were charged with "recreating"... another great gaseous ThoughtFart of consuming too many unrinsed philosophic beans... "recreating" ??? WTF ??? ermmmm.... "recreating" the master ThoughFarter himself ... so they were slinging this casual, almost Beatnik existential hipsterism with the implied knowingness, the implied coolness of it all... but hotted up with Erf Salvation moral urgency... Calvinist morality meets Buddhist detachment meets California fringe weirdness... like [b:84f66f91e5] "if you have to ask how much it costs you can't afford it" [/b:84f66f91e5] sales gambit with the[b:84f66f91e5] "if you have to ask what it means you are forfeiting your breakthrough" [/b:84f66f91e5] mindfuck.... anything to keep the unwashed heathen kids from asking unconfortable.... sort of the [b:84f66f91e5] facts of life conversation [/b:84f66f91e5] that many parents try to put off until the last possible moment.... Ok, OK, babies don't come by FedEx... there is no Santa Claus...[b:84f66f91e5] the language is simultaneously loaded and vacuous, and we use the implied loadedness to stave off perceptions of its' vacuity, and we use its' vacuity to derail analysis of exactly HOW it is loaded [/b:84f66f91e5] .... kind of like trying to get a straight answer out of defense counsel that handles mob clients... around and around we dance with ants in our pants always bobbing and weaving with a critical glance....