Hello. I just want to say how relieved I am to have found this site. You all seem to have a lot of knowledge (much of it from the inside) about what goes on with some of these cult groups.
I have a friend who's been getting more and more deeply involved with Landmark, and from the first time she mentioned the forum, I was skeptical. She's been going for probably about 6 or 7 months now. She recently was accepted into the ILP program, so I think it's safe to say that she obviously doesn't see what's going on there. Is there anything I can do or say that could possibly help her see even a glimmer of what I see?
I see someone who's completely brainwashed, and used a new type of language that makes no sense to me, or to anyone else. Everything she "gets", she has completely twisted around, and it starts a fight. She talks about how she's made herself "wrong" or has made me "wrong" and that what she really wants is to be a "stand" or "support" in my life. As if somehow, any of this bs was going to make sense to me.
Sorry I've rambled a little here, but I was just wondering if there's anything that can be done? If this keeps going on, the only thing I can think of doing is just cutting her loose.

Hi leftcoast,

Welcome to this forum. You have found probably the best support group for those with friends and loved ones in LGATs that is out there. Your story is repeated many times here. What you're going though is very frustrating and sad. I'm glad you came here and shared your story.

Your friend is reaching "critical mass" in Landmark and is probably now immune to rational discussion. "I have my experience and you have yours" is surely at the base of her thoughts now, so any attempt to rationalize her out of her new beliefs will be seen simply as "your experience" and of no consequence to "her experience," where different rules can apply without there being any contradiction.

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leftcoast8
I was just wondering if there's anything that can be done?

Read through our posts for ideas. ConcernedOz is one of the few that has had success. His girlfriend seems to have wanted help out, which I think is key. I always think there is hope, but if your friend doesn't want out, it's near impossible.

Generally though, about the only thing you can do is share your concerns when she brings up Landmark (without becoming preachy), trying to point out contradictions between her former beliefs and her new ones. Enlist the gentle support of her other friends if possible, if for no other reason than to make sure they don't get sucked in too. Support the things you can, which will probably become fewer and fewer in number. Pray, if you do that sort of thing.

There is no magic bullet to counteract the hypnotic, criminal re-wiring of her mind. You may end up having to cut her loose, or reduce the contact you have to the point you can tolerate and enjoy her company.

Best of luck. Keep us posted.

-lightwolf

Thanks for the helpful reply, lightwolf.

I see a lot of truth in what you're saying, and sadly, it doesn't look like she wants to get out. She's spending two of the next three weekends, and every Tuesday night "assisting" and then wonders why she doesn't get enough sleep! It's so frustrating.
I've denounced the entire Landmark thing since the beginning when she started telling me about it. I've read back through at least 10 or 12 pages of this thread, and I've literally gotten chills reading these threads. I see so much of all these different behaviors in her, and it's all so mechanical. The filling of the time, the cleaning out of the house (even buying all new furniture), the smiling and staring thing, "getting" everything, faster than normal attachments to people, etc.
I've done a good job of limiting my contact with her, and tuning out as much as I can of her Landmark newspeak, but it's hard. For a while, she was trying to recruit me--quite adamantly. And after reading what some of these people are like, it seems like I got out lucky. After a bad night filled with heavy drinking (mine, not hers), we got into a full-on shouting match around 3 in the morning. I remember being red in the face and telling her to shut up about Landmark, that I wasn't interested in her cult, that I would never be interested, and that she needed to stop trying to get me to go with her, and that if all she did was continue to push the Landmark bs down my throat, I was never going to speak with her again. Despite how harsh and callous I felt at the time, looking back at what happened, and reading what everyone here has said, I can see that it was probably the only way for me to stop that freight train dead in its tracks.

While I've read quite a bit here (and written a small novel, I apologize), I'm wondering if anyone has had any success in shedding a little light into these people's worlds.

My experience has been so similar. I think there are only a few ways to approach someone who has become a drone for Landmark. Either Systematic Desenitization or Implosive therapy. Both will require a therapist not associated with LEC.

An intervention with family and friends or a cult de programmer are some other possibilities.

The strongest influence on a person is their peer group. LEC knows this and usues it to manipulate people. If you can find a peer group that carries as much weight as the LEC experience...then you may have a shot.

However...I feel it is impossible to have a relationship with someone in Landmark. I think they need to be exposed and destroyed. They should be forced to be licensed by individual states. I am working on this.

Best of luck

If she's in that deep, it'll probably be a long wait. For many people, once the hooks are in it takes a herculean effort for the person to free him/herself. And the motivation for that effort only comes after reality sets in - the real one, not the fantasy, fabulous, "created" one that Landmarkers peddle. It may take months or years of low or poorly compensated labor, frustration, demoralization, humiliation, and exhaustion for someone to begin to question the things they've been "taught."


Kudos to those who manage to free themselves from this sickening manufactured mindset.



Ellen

I agree with what Elena has said, once a person has been in landmark for a longish period, its really only themselves that will pull them out however having said that they still need their non landmark friends even though they probably won't treat them very well (from my personal experience)

Don't push books and arguments at your friend, it will just push her to get coaching about it and then she will come back with the perpared answers. Just stick to your ground and be there for when everything goes to pot.

Most people leave landmark because they realise they are being used! or are just tired of feeling like a freight train has run them over.

True. You have to understand one of Landmark's cardinal tactics. They thrive on conflict and drama. Psychologists out there may note that this is the way that some dysfunctional family systems operate too, Landmark didn't invent this dysfunctional style, they just put the finishing touches on it. Ooooo... all the "making wrong !", and "having to be right !"... sure buddy, As The World Turns...

See those tempting little knobs all over them ? Those are stimulus-response buttons. Push one and you'll get a pre-recorded message.

Resist the temptation. Keep your fingers away from the buttons. They're deeply wired to post-hypnotic sugggestion anyway, something about Defending The True Faith...

Try this, "show up as the possibility" of doing just fine without Landmark, you don't have to "take a stand" on the matter... chuckle and roll your eyes if you must, stick to your own business, and give the subject no energy, because (they know this all too well), once they get you emotional, their techniques work waaaay better. Never get emotional or positional around these jokers, just blandly show no particular interest... if they try to enroll you, the worst thing you can possibly say to them is "It sounds boring".... nothing pisses them off like people being bored by their message, they do their song and dance, trying to enroll people by getting them emotionally engaged. Just Yawn and Walk On.

Right on...but it's very difficult when a beautiful woman is seducing you with sex and praise and gifts...all to get you into Landmark. She would even do the "girl on girl" thing if I would do the seminar.

It was so hard to walk away from, but I never gave in. I still have hope that she will leave it, or better yet..that LEC will be abolished.

It's still so hard to cope with... that I was seduced by a pod person...a drone...a siren for Werner.

How messed up is that?

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leftcoast8
I see someone who's completely brainwashed, and used a new type of language that makes no sense to me, or to anyone else.

leftcoast,

You see clearly. Here are some links that might interest you:
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]

Your insight touches on one of the points that kills relationships with someone in an LGAT. Their language makes no sense to us, and I think ours makes no sense to them. I have learned you can never really trust what they say in conversation. They may say they "get" what you say, or "acknowlege" your point. You might think you've made some headway. You haven't. You will find out that they "get" nothing, and their promises mean nothing. As long as the jargon is there, they still belong to the LGAT matrix. It's all emptiness.

This is so incredible, given their emphasis and coursework on "communication." Please. These people have put an end to true communication. Keep this in mind if you decide to keep her around.

We're making it sound bleak because that's the REALITY that is. Just thank God you could smell the rat.

-lightwolf

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It's still so hard to cope with... that I was seduced by a pod person...a drone...a siren for Werner.

Par for the course... the Scientologists tried that one on me too. Hey, you shoulda been there for Sex Nite on the Six Day Course... would anyone here be interested in knowing more about the porn movies and suchlike ?

During my passage through the EST reality tunnel there were a few, ummm.. (to use the terminology of the day), seriously hungry women hanging on to the enlightenment rocket... hard to say if their primary motive was to get laid or keep the party hot, i.e. isn't wasn't entirely clear if they were look for extracurricular action or if they were working for the house, or even if that distinction was fully evolved in their minds...