Hi all. I'm a longtime lurker. This site has been a big help to me in the past. Is this group on anyone's radar?

[www.productivelearning.com]

It was started up by old members of an Lgat group called Summit, who I believe were on offshoot of Pheonix, out here in California I guess.

I'm asking because of my Dad. He was in it to his eyeballs with Summit in the 80's. It practically ruined him financially, and he was a real robot. It finally seemed to "wear off" in the 90's.

He told me last year that this group had been reformed and they'd "invited" him to return. <snort> He's been quiet about it since, but a couple of days ago I had a mildly disturbing convo with him, and he mentioned it three or four times. Including an anecdote about a colleague in which they discovered that they both did "training" because they were using the same vocabulary in their conversation together. He thought it was cool. Urk.

Anyway. Don't want to get too long winded here. I looked up their website and tried to analyse it with my stored up knowledge from here and the Awareness pages. But I'm having too many flashbacks to my "Dad the est-hole" interactions from my teen years. Part of me desperately wants to believe it's relatively benign. But I remember the 80's and quail with sick anticipation.

If anyone knows anything about these folks, heard anything I'd appreciate it if you post. I'm not really asking anything specific I realize. I guess I don't really know...what. I guess some of you might know what that feels like. :(

MPK

Hi.

I'm replying to my own post. I realize that this place is usually not very busy on the weekends, and that's ok. I just wanted to give a p.s. to my post. I take back what i wrote about "relatively benign". These folks are not benign. I know that.

I just wanted to give my honest state of mind to the forum. Anyone who has a parent or loved one given to one of these groups....just wants to hope. I have focused my thinking a bit.

I was 13 when my Dad started doing lgat seminars. I was in therapy when I was 13 for my parents divorce. My dad suborned my therapist and got information from her about my issues... and on our visitations weekends, did his "training" on me based on confidential information.

I just deleted 3 paragraphs about what happened to me as a result because I still don't trust.

Please don't so this to your kids. I was 13 when he started Lgats. I am 34 now, and still hurting.

mpk

Hi MPK,

Sure sounds like every other LGAT. One thing they don't seem to be able to do is figure out any different words to use. Amazing that the tired-out and hackneyed old things still work after all these years. Yes, they betray themselves in their lack of imagination.

Is this the first time you've written to a newsgroup? Was your parents' divorce before or during your father's involvement? What was your mother doing while he was involved with est?


Ellen

Hi elena.

Thanks for the reply. I don't post on message boards much. And never before about this issue. I've told a few of my friends. I'm glad I did because Landmark seems to be "discovering" my generation, and recruiting. My story has disuaded a few, or reinforced their aversion to the come-on.

Yeah, the language is pretty tired. It's amazing they still suck people in.

My parents were divorced before my Dad got into Summit. Sorry I wasn't more clear, he wasn't into EST. It's just the behavior that seems the same.
The divorce wasn't caused by the Lgat. He just pushed it a lot when he got into it. My mom didn't really catch on to what was going on until my dad put my name and our phone number to the Summit recruiters and they'd call, like constantly trying to get me to enroll. It was pretty sick. They'd say stuff like, "Don't you want to make your dad happy? Don't you want to support his new life?"

My mom listened in on one of these hard sells and told our parish priest. He called them up and told them to lay off, that it was against our religion. I'm no longer a Catholic, but I will always be grateful for the support. I don't know if Lgat's are really against the Catholic religion but it stopped the phone calls.

I guess now I'm just looking for ways I can deal with this as an adult, since it seems like more is coming down the pike.

MPK

Yes, Landmark seems to have just waited till most people forgot about the nonsense or a whole new generation grew up with no knowledge of the group's history. Opportunists, certainly. They are like weeds.

I could "deconstruct" the language used in the website you posted, but I think you already know that such notions as "creating an extraordinary life" isn't far removed from "creating a life you love," and L. Ron Hubbard's megalomaniacal "creating" this and that or whatever came into his mind, from whom it originated, at least in these current incarnations. The really ironic thing is that HE, ElRon, was able to "create" a new religion and fabulous wealth for himself and the adoration of his followers. It would be funny if it weren't so sick.

LGATs are all so similar. The differences are mostly cosmetic. They all use the same formula - whatever works in one is quickly copied by all the others. There's a "fictional" LGAT deconstruction on the Awareness pages and Margaret Singer also describes the sequence with which a typical LGAT seduces and indoctrinates its followers. (In the original edition of her book.)

I can't believe they had the nerve to try to recruit a child. It is astounding that there are adults who think this is OK. I can't figure out how these people haven't been put in jail. Well, you can sort of see what the game is, with your examples. It is to use emotional manipulation to advance your agenda, and they teach their followers to use the same tactics that were used on them. Shocking that they would do this to a child. Really.

I am sending you something in your private mailbox that you might find helpful.


Ellen

Quote

Yes, Landmark seems to have just waited till most people forgot about the nonsense or a whole new generation grew up with no knowledge of the group's history. Opportunists, certainly. They are like weeds

Elena, I think you are absolutely right. When I was introduced to Landmark I had never heard of it so had no negitive thoughts about it. I was open to what they had to say and that was probably what screwed me over! If you dont know about LGATs you can not be prepared for what they use to dupe you.

I wonder how much business has been lost due to the internet. They were able to thrive in relative secrecy for so long. Though she died a couple of years ago, Jan Groenveld's site is still up. She did a lot of work to keep the information available. You've probably already seen it, but I'll just post it here, for anyone who hasn't.



[www.caicusa.org]



Ellen