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Why Landmark is so conflicting and create so many problems
Posted by: midonov123 ()
Date: July 13, 2005 03:26AM

I’ve been reading a lot about New Age recently. It has become clear to me that Landmark and other self-development programs offer what has been referred to as a “paradigm shift” in peoples life. Of course this is not new. But I understand much better now.

The term paradigm shift was made popular by the American historian of science Thomas Khun, and he defines it as a transformation of “the entire constellation of beliefs, values, techniques and so on shared by the members of a given community”. It is actually a revolution (not necessarily for the better though) and Kuhn emphasizes that competing paradigms cannot co-exist and that it is “impossible to reconcile the two opposing visions”. This explains in simple terms why pro-Landmark can never reconcile with it’s detractors. I have experienced this myself with my ex-girlfriend, and because of the impossibility to reconcile our different point of views, I came to the conclusion that Landmark was a destructive cult. Of course, the counter argument was for her to say that I was running a racket in saying that and the only way to resolve the difficulty was to “give in” and accept the “paradigm shift”. Enough to drive anyone crazy, isn’t it?

The paradigm shift being proposed is fundamentally a New Age set of beliefs (I will not expand on this here), and this is why these self-transformation groups are often called New Age groups. For example, Landmark’s long term plan to transform the world and achieve world peace by year 2020 is clearly a proprietary version of the “Age of Aquarius” (remember the famous song?)! The study of the New Age Movement helps me in clarifying the beliefs put forward by Landmark and others. This is not to say that the New Age vision is all bad or destructive. It’s simply irreconcilable with the traditional world view. I read that the various expressions of the new Age paradigm shift are:

- the passage from Newtonian Mechanistic physics to Quantum Physics (this is why the cult movie What the Bleep do We Know – the movie about Quantum Mechanics and the creation of your own reality – is so popular among the Landmarkians and other New Agers).

- a switch from exaltation of “reason” to an appreciation of “feeling, emotion and experience” (this is why Landmarkian will insist you MUST “experience” the Forum for example and that you cannot understand by “reason” only)

- a switch from the dominance of masculinity and patriarchy to a celebration of feminity an individuals and in society (that one I like!)

Of course, there’s nothing wrong with Quantum Mechanics (it’s the greatest discovery of physics) and the celebration of feminity is great also. But playing with peoples feelings and emotions can be dangerous when done by non-professionals (Landmark leaders and pseudo “coaches”) who may have a hidden agenda. What is really a problem is that Landmark and other groups transform some of the participants into deployable agents and free manpower, and this is somewhat disturbing, though not illegal (except in France). This is the hard selling deceptive pitch everybody is infuriated about (including me).

But even that being put aside, it remains that Landmark and other self-help programs are playing with peoples deeper emotions and feelings that may result in a “paradigm shift” in their sets of values (the so-called “Transformation”) which according to Khun cannot co-exist with the old (non-transformed) one. This explains why people go home “transformed” and start a revolution inside their own head, and with family and friends that causes problems, sometimes very serious ones. I believe this is why some people become psychotic too after attending. The emotional burden due to the irreconcilability of two different visions is simply too intense for some ill prepared people. Not only is it conflicting, it is also dangerous because those who go into these programs usually have no idea of what is being proposed to them. This is the deceptive and unethical part and this is what I hate about Landmark. It’s like an aggression on peoples mind, life and personal integrity using deception, trickery and intense manipulation. People have no idea that the ultimate goal is to put them in a state of intense confusion in order to get them hooked to the new (New Age) system of beliefs ... so they will keep participating, taking advanced courses, work as volunteers, and believe they are in a “win-win” situation when they might very well be in a “win-loose” situation. A situation where they have lost their sense of “reason” and replaced it with an appreciation of “feeling, emotion and experience” (see above). Actually, they may have lost their critical thinking and freedom of the mind.


That’s all for now. Thanks for reading.

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Why Landmark is so conflicting and create so many problems
Posted by: Toni ()
Date: July 13, 2005 08:04AM

Mid:
As usual, very well stated.

Thank you :!:

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Why Landmark is so conflicting and create so many problems
Posted by: ULTAWARE ()
Date: July 16, 2005 11:47AM

M & t,

M, you , IMO, are right on it...exactly what I experienced with my ex - wife of 22 yrs..after lec, she was the flip - side of a rational human being...spewing "cassette-like" dogma...AND yes, I agree, why don't they give any info before hand (the real reason they don't advertize? "cause they really offer nothing?)

PAX to you both.....

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Why Landmark is so conflicting and create so many problems
Posted by: sonnie_dee ()
Date: July 16, 2005 03:46PM

What you have writen is dead on the mark and very insightful! I wish I knew then what I know now about Landmark!

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It has become clear to me that Landmark and other self-development programs offer what has been referred to as a “paradigm shift” in peoples life. Of course this is not new. But I understand much better now.

It is actually a revolution (not necessarily for the better though) and Kuhn emphasizes that competing paradigms cannot co-exist and that it is “impossible to reconcile the two opposing visions”. This explains in simple terms why pro-Landmark can never reconcile with it’s detractors

Landmark uses the term paradigm shift in their introductions and they tell you what it is (well their meaning of it). They dont mention (of course) that their paradigm will oppose your own for the most part and that this will cause so much conflict unless you shift to theirs. It is of huge concern that people are getting into this with out knowing what they are really getting into!

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Why Landmark is so conflicting and create so many problems
Posted by: midonov123 ()
Date: July 18, 2005 09:53AM

I got this letter from a Landmark graduate. It's short, but I find it very loaded. I can see clearly how irreconciliable that person has become to non-Landmarkians. Can anybody make any sense of it?

Quote

"I've spent years on self development studies and do my best to coach others on authenticity. Everything else isn't real! However, reaching one's core is not as easy as it sounds - lots of layers to discard. I try to live as I was intended. Just being is sometimes hindered by the ever present, pesky but necessary ego."

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Why Landmark is so conflicting and create so many problems
Posted by: Toni ()
Date: July 18, 2005 10:42AM

Mid:

There is not sense to be made of that message. It's metaphysical hoolabaloo. (sounds like my parents, and years later my exboyfriend.... LOL & ouch..)

The message is a backhanded insult to you, and exaltation of the person who wrote the message. The person who wrote the message is doing their hard work. While you are hindered, because you identitify with that pesky ego which prevents you from true authenticity.

Of course, you were the honest direct person in the relationship, and the Landmarkian was hiding behind LEC scripts. That is beside the point.

Shaking my head here in bewilderment. It is all so sad.

It won't ever make sense to you. Thank heavens! Keep it that way. :D

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midonov123
I got this letter from a Landmark graduate. It's short, but I find it very loaded. I can see clearly how irreconciliable that person has become to non-Landmarkians. Can anybody make any sense of it?

Quote

"I've spent years on self development studies and do my best to coach others on authenticity. Everything else isn't real! However, reaching one's core is not as easy as it sounds - lots of layers to discard. I try to live as I was intended. Just being is sometimes hindered by the ever present, pesky but necessary ego."

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Why Landmark is so conflicting and create so many problems
Posted by: midonov123 ()
Date: July 20, 2005 06:44AM

This is the answer I gave to the "pesky ego" letter I got (see my post above). I don't expect any reply from that person, and again, our positions are irreconciliable.

So, my answer is as follows:

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"I find the concept of authenticity very elusive. How can someone be authentic when under the influence of a group like Landmark? In my view, this is in blatant contradiction with the very concept of authenticity. So you will always be stuck being authentic about your inauthenticity. Landmark is full of contradictions and inconsistencies. I live an authentic life. This is why I will never participate in Landmark or live under the influence of any such organization.
...

So, keep searching for your authenticity, keep struggling about your inauthenticity, but please try not to make too many victims along the way. "


I've always been good at making ennemies. I guess this is part of my authenticity!


Michael D

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Why Landmark is so conflicting and create so many problems
Posted by: YZFR1 ()
Date: July 20, 2005 08:43AM

Having attended no introduction to Landmark but having completed both the Forum and Advanced course i thought id comment.

I enjoyed the course, discovered some new tools that have allowed me to view thing differently and experienced a deeper level of understanding with my friends and colleagues and it was inspirational seeing a number of people re-connect with their families and friends.

Im a well educated person who holds a senior role in a global company and having attended many motivational/educational and business related course throughout my year's, i believe can evaluate this course with a non-bias opinion.

I found the course to be both challenging and inspiring, i felt this course allowed you to have a look at what you have created in your life, how you created it, and what you would like to create moving forward. How you translate this is totally up to the individual.

This course i feel isn't for people who may need "professional" help, or suffer form a mental condition and are seeking a course to "fix" their lives, my view is that this is designed for educated people with broad life experiences that are willing to look at their past, be open to evaluating it and able to look at their future.

Like any course some people have positives and negatives, but unless you actually complete the course you really cannot comment.

From my point of view i wasnt i forced to do anything, i always had the choice to say "no" and also had the opportunity to leave if i so desired (with my money refunded).

All i can say is personal experience accounts for my view and my view alone.

Ill leave you with a quote;

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

Friedrich Nietzsche


Kind Regards

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Why Landmark is so conflicting and create so many problems
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 20, 2005 07:40PM

YZFRI:

You are entitled to your opinion.

But if you take the time to do some research you will find that Landmark Education has a deeply troubled history of complaints, personal injury lawsuits and bad press.

Many graduates of courses that have posted here don't agree with your assesment of its programs.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This is a research paper authored by a psychologist that specifically points out the problems with mass marathon training such as Landmark Education.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This is the Landmark Education archive page within the Ross Insitute that contains press reports, personal tesitmonies etc. about the history and problems previously mentioned. Note the links to pages about EST and the Forum also included at the top.

There are many first hand experiences of graduates and reporters who took the courses Landmark offers and they offer their assesments.

Based upon the serious complaints I have received I would not recommend Landmark Education and/or its programs to anyone under any circumstances and see it instead as a risk and potentially unsafe.

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Why Landmark is so conflicting and create so many problems
Posted by: midonov123 ()
Date: July 21, 2005 06:49AM

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YZFR1
Im a well educated person who holds a senior role in a global company and having attended many motivational/educational and business related course throughout my year's, i believe can evaluate this course with a non-bias opinion.

The fact that you are educated doesn't mean you know enough about Landmark to make an unbiased judgment, especially after having been influenced by a Forum leader for 3 days non-stop!

Take some time off, educate yourself and think about those who suffer because of Landmark. The fundamental problem is that Landmark create a "addiction" using coercive influence techniques. Maybe you're not hooked yet, but some poeple get hooked and their life and relationships are turned upside down. And Landmark does that knowingly and deceptively to have free workers and deployable agents, otherwise they would go bankrupt. Their insidious and deceptive business practices are at the core of their operations. But perhaps you will agree with their unethical methods since the important is to make money, right?

MD

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