Hi,

I did the Landmark forum and Advanced three years ago. Thank god I was warned before I went and do these courses. Friends of mine, who did the same courses, advised me to just enroll, follow the course, simply say no to everything they would ask and get the hell out of there afterwards! This because the 'hardcore' landmarkers are a bunch of headcases (which is true!!) Safe to say I followed this advise.

Most of the things I learned at landmark (greek filosofie, budism, zen etc... so nothing new under the sun) helped me a great deal. my view of life is down to earth and totaly relaxed. Not that I am promoting landmark (because it is and will always be a marketing-money-money-machine) here, but I would like to point out that I experienced the course and kept everything that I could use in my life and threw away that what I could ot use (as normal in life right?).

Nevertheless: I did the course and got hell out of there! Because most people that hang on become strange indeed... so I do understand most of the views written down here.

My tip is... just enroll, follow the course, simply say no to everything they would ask and get the hell out of there afterwards!

Hi akira76,

You wrote:
"but I would like to point out that I experienced the course and kept everything that I could use in my life and threw away that what I could ot use "

Do you feel comfortable to disclose what you threw away in you life?

Thanks
Oz :)

You're not promoting Landmark...but your tip is to enroll? Is there a conflict there?

Glam

everyone who pays for the course or has somebody else pay for the course feeds the machine.

it may seem morally neutral to take a course or two, don't recruit anyone and drop out. still, you have given them a minimum of $395.

as Manichean as that sounds.

The tip to enroll, do the course, say no to everything makes absolutely no sense. Why pay a minimum of $375 to be manipulated and used as pawns to make more money, and say no to everything?

All the ideas from greek phil, zen, etc, are bastardized and twisted at a Landmark Forum. Why pay for that? Why do you suggest people become part of a marketing and money-making machine and then get the hell out of there? No pun intended, but I don't get it.

it bothers me that anyone who says anything remotely positive about LEC gets jumped on here.

aware and sophisticated (when it comes to LEC in particular and in general) participants can get something from Landmark. my aunt-in-law does not seem any worse for it. some family friends I knew seemed to have gained from it.

the for/against rigid categorization here bothers me.

if nothing else, it alienates grads who haven't grown up to realizing that LEC has screwed them yet and who might we do not attack them and make them go away.

to reiterate. dollars given to LEC for courses end up helping to perpetuate some shady practices. I consider that a major strike against the (sensible) idea of going through training, taking what you can take, leaving the rest.

I don't understand it either, Hope.

My major realization is it takes time to admit to yourself you were scammed, which is why akira says take the course but say no to everything else.

Unfortunately the course is often held without blame, very much how the guru is held without blame (Thanks Corboy!!!!). But ex-participants always blame the extremists' behavior on the individuals or the center, never the course. When you think about it, the course is being treated like a blameless, sacred entity with a life of it's own that should be guarded, protected and passed on …. plaaaah, what a load of crap … and I paid for this *scratches head* :roll:

Some people get addicted from the first puff/snort/injection/course, so I don't see why anyone would advise anyone else to do such things.

Hey, does anyone here watch the Power Puff Girls .... come on, you can admit you watch it while the kids have it on!! They had an episode were Mojo Jojo had to give language lessons for community service .... he's rhetoric always reminds me, in a humorous and enjoyable way, of lec's round about way of explaining. In this particular episode, the PPGs had to get the talking dog to teach everyone to talk correctly again. :lol: If we only had a talking dog here.

for standing up for any LEC grad who might have found something positive in the Forum. Even the Devil works hard -- nothing is completely evil! I do wish I'd had Akira76's "heads up" prior to my Landmark experience, though. I walked into it during a low point in my life, and frankly was apprehensive and sceptical about the whole thing. I did know it was an offshoot of EST, which was alarming. At the time, though, I thought I needed a jolt to get me out of my rut. And, I didn't know about the RR Forum. If I'd thought to research LEC, I'd have never done it.

What saved me from swallowing the whole Landmark line was that scepticism, which persisted in spite of our Fearless Leader's attempts to silence that "inner voice".

I found the admonition to understand, forgive and profess love for parents a very fine thing, though I know there are those who had horrendous home lives who'd find this difficult if not impossible. I enjoyed considering different ways of looking at things, whether that "thing" was what we know (what we don't know we know, what we know we don't know, blah, blah, blah) or how we percieve the completion of tasks and goals. Rather like mental gymnastics. I "tried on" these different ways of perceiving things, said "well, that's interesting", and moved on.

I loathed the grammatical foolishness. English is a fine, expressive language, and doesn't deserve the torture Landmarkers inflict on it. Clearly a propagandistic use of the language. A "thought stopper" as some here have called it.

I did not appreciate being "gaslighted" on the first evening of the Forum and was alarmed the next day to see how the "Gaslighting" had skewed the perceptions of some of my Forum mates. They allowed themselves to be convinced that what they KNEW to be true was NOT true, according to the Leader. At that point, I determined to "get my money's worth" out of the Forum, but resist the manipulations. I think I was pretty successful, except for one exercise ("Empty and Meaningless"), where I do believe I entered a trance-like state. It is the only portion of the weekend I have trouble recalling.

As the weekend wore on, I began to suspect that some of the participants were scripted, though I had no way of proving that. The same people "shared" throughout the weekend over and over. Well, we've all known those persons who crave the limelight! I never once spoke up in the "big room", and never experienced the "catharsis' during the fear exercise and others. In fact, the "fear" exercise was another tipoff that it was all a put-on.

By the third day, and especially on the "graduation night", talk about "enrollment" dominated. By then, I figured I'd gotten all I was going to get out of the Forum. (Forgive & love your parents, don't be afraid to look at things in a different way. That's nice.) I got slammed by our Fearless Leader for not enrolling a single soul. Funny, but that didn't get me all fired up to drag my friends to Landmark.

In spite of the downside, I left the Forum weekend with a euphoric feeling. OK, it was exhaustion and sleep deprivation -- I was giddy! :D

While I still had that "glow" on, I started work on my business website. Would I have done it otherwise? I'm sure I would have, eventually, but I had this energy from the Forum and I put it to use. Good thing? You bet!

The bad thing emerged as I realized that we Grads were expected to do nothing but bring in new recruits and volunteer for Landmark. During one of the follow-up seminars, we were handed cards to indicate our willingness to volunteer. Funny, there was no place to indicate a "no" answer! I left my card blank, though because the vols in the back are watching us, and everything is picked up in order, I knew that they knew who left the card blank. Things got unpleasant for me as the seminars went on. I didn't finish the series and did not sign on for further Landmark activities.

I'd advise anyone who feels compelled to try Landmark to keep these things in mind and ask if you really want to expose yourself to blatant manipulation. If your life is a shambles, a counselor, clergyman, or friend would be better than any LGAT. I doubt the good I got was worth the $$ I spent, but on the other hand, LEC didn't get a single recruit through me! In fact, I tell people (if it should come up in a conversation) not to bother with Landmark, that the dangers outweigh the good.

At the very least, people attending a Landmark event should be better informed prior to signing up. But they won't get the straight skinny from the Landmark website and Landmark's devotees!

in large part "what Landmark teaches" comes out of the participant.

I cannot think of any other way that some people who do it can come out changed for the good, others not or overall less flawed than the person who came up with est.

(he had what I think of as a partial or distorted enlightenment experience or one that he later distorted to suit himself.)

the vague and general rule going something like, it depends on the person who takes the training.

Hi Acid Reindeer:

Quote

everyone who pays for the course or has somebody else pay for the course feeds the machine.

it may seem morally neutral to take a course or two, don't recruit anyone and drop out. still, you have given them a minimum of $395.

I consider that a major strike against the (sensible) idea of going through training, taking what you can take, leaving the rest.

it depends on the person who takes the training.

some people who do it can come out changed for the good, others not or overall less flawed than the person who came up with est.

aware and sophisticated (when it comes to LEC in particular and in general) participants can get something from Landmark. my aunt-in-law does not seem any worse for it. some family friends I knew seemed to have gained from it.

I'm pretty new here, so I'm finding some of your posts kind of confusing. On the one hand, you feel that spending any money on the courses feeds the machine, but on the other, you feel that aware and sophisticated people can (sensibly) get something from Landmark.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I'm honestly not sure what you're saying. Do you feel people should not do Landmark? Or that, if they're aware and sophisticated, they should, because they can get something out of it?

I'm sure that, somewhere in the Landmark training, there are bits and pieces that make sense or are somewhat helpful, but doesn't it make sense to get that info somewhere else, rather than subjecting yourself to 3 days of psychological yukkiness and possible psychological harm in order to glean a decent concept or two?

You may agree with my last sentence completely -- I'm just trying to get a handle on things. It might be that you're just expressing the opinion that it's not helpful to come down on new people here who've found something positive to say about Landmark, because that scares them away from this forum and doesn't help them learn what's happened to them. Which I agree with.