Quote
Bunny
I have great compassion to anyone who loses a loved one to this slick group who pieces together a little of this with a little of that to convince these vulnerable people that they they have lives without purpose and they (Pathways) have the tools to make them whole.

Very little sleep
Reveal their souls to strangers
They go spend a day in a nursing home to realize they will get old and time is short
After very little sleep on a weekend they go to a Christian church and have an opportunity to be baptized.
Bottom line...do not let anything or anyone (including your own children and family and career) get in the way of your own happiness.

Dr Phil adds a lot of drama to drama. He doesn't mind asking for money either. My suggestion is to decide what kind of person you want to be and put it in writing before you go to one of these LGAT's Pathways will give you the Title that you are looking for, but it will only be words and only those at Pathways will believe that is who you are. If you don't want to have to depend on the friendship and admiration of Pathway graduates for your self worth, look for direction elsewhere. Look at what you put in writing and then look for where you can learn skills to be that person. Pathways will show you that you are a looser and then "fix you" with a one size fits all" remedy.

Bunny and Rick Ross,

This program doesn't force anything on you. On the Sunday of the "Walk" you are encouraged to attend a church of your choosing. Most will go to the same church, and this church's pastor is a graduate of the program but is also one of the members of a popular Christian Contemporary Band. In my class, we had some that went to a Jewish temple, others just didn't go. Nobody was coerced into going and none were shunned for not going. As for sleep deprived, I never once was sleep deprived. I always got a good nights sleep, although I do like to stay up and chat with my classmates.
As for the comment about nursing homes, it is something that has to be approved by the nursing home before a group can go into the home. Nobody just "shows up". I myself went to the Veterans Home and spoke with the brave men and women who have served our country and were injured, or have become sick since their service. It was very humbling to go and to talk to these people. They are wonderful to speak to and they are full of love. The premise here is to connect with those who very often have no one to connect to. When we leave, if they ask us whether we are coming back or not, we have to be bold and tell them either yes or no. I told my new friends there, yes, and have returned twice since I was there the first time. BTW, I am not a veteran, but my best friend is and he also took Pathways with me. We met there.

Moderator, I cannot comment on how or what is giving this program a bad rap. It has been the very best thing I have ever done in my life, and I plan on taking all of their courses. Of course, no program is for everyone because everyone is different. But it worked for me, and I will continue to support this program monetarily even if I don't attend.

I have noticed that this forum is just a place to harbor hostility against a program they don't understand. If you didn't get anything out of going through the program, then you didn't play hard enough. You didn't give the program a fair shake.

Finally this is NOT the program that Dr. Phil is associated with. He has NO ties to it whatsoever. His original concept of this sort of therapy if you will was constructed between himself and I believe a woman with the last name of Ford. Early on those who took the program by Phillip McGraw would come out praising him for all that he did. Phil got a god complex and started steering this program a different direction than it was originally planned. Mrs. Ford decided to try and buy him out. Phil wouldn't sell, so she set out to take the core principals that she wrote into the program, and create her own. Pathways is the direct result of that program.

BTW, this program was before Phillip McGraw became Dr. Phil. He didn't get discovered by Oprah for about 10 years afterwards. Then he became Dr.Phil.

I hate that this program hasn't had the results for you as they have for me. I can only hope that you get your therapy somewhere else so that you too can be free.

The woman who developed Pathways is named Thelma Box. Phil used the curriculum she designed. Pathways gives McGraw awards at their graduations.

Dr Phil is sort of a know it all in my opinion. He is loud and domineering and the people on his show are a little hard to believe. The difference here is that we have control over our TV, but not our large group experience. Everyone at Pathways is experiencing the same thing. Everyone is being judged by their piers and semi-professionals.

There are many churched people who after a powerful sermon and an alter call decide to be baptized. It is a response to a very strong emotional power surge. I am not surprised that Pathways resorts to this non-intellectual level. So now the baptized Pathways member is a Pathway student and a born again Christian. Pleasing Kevin Walker and God; when only the week before he was confused about who he was.

The victims are friends and family members who are not convinced that Pathways has the solution for their lives to be happy and have meaning. We are the know nothings. We are no longer worthy because we just don't get it.

Cult is such a strong and misunderstood word that it is easy to dismiss. I would call it brain washing and manipulating by way of emotion with only a one sided argument of reason.

If you had a good experience and made a best friend there good for you.

I would like to post regarding this topic. Much of what has been said has articulated 2 sides to this issue. I think in my opinion I am in the middle on this issue. I believe that this organization does have certain behavioral tendencies that would indicate that it is a cult and some that don't.

If there is an issue between 2 parties and or negative energy of other individuals towards another even if its baseless and or was caused in part by the incompetence of the facilitators and or TA's then it is a cult because of the way that you are insulted and it hinders the very training that they intend to promote. I would be very weary of an attorney named Martin Boyd and a so called LPC who is not professionally trained in clinical by the name of Laurie Mitchell as they are individuals who don't promote 2 sides of an issue properly or fairly. If others in the training view you as negative energy it defeats your purpose this happened to me over another individual who's cousin I knew but they didn't know. The way the setting is I felt very uncomfortable to express my concerns and I noticed this person's wife asked them whether he was lying and they accused me of promoting and or jeapordizing the secrets of the room. Even when I disclosed to said privately that my conversation with their wife was only about whether they were someone I knew who was what I thought was their last cousin based on last name and genetics. Of course I commented off the cuff to others in the class only my side of the story and was ridiculed. Then in addition when they say that money is not an issue if you overpress your classmates they can be offended because some people can't afford the walk. My roommate felt that way about me and I had to explain to him due to misunderstandings and multiple messages that in fact it was the organization that encouraged me to "SURRENDER" and ask other classmates for financial help as an option and they do stress that I would advise against such behavior. I was able before I walked out of the walk to convince this individual that in fact I did not seek to shake this person for money. When I explained to them NOT TO SELL their antique family guns but rather another unncessary gun the funds achieved would not have been enough to help me when he had his expenses. This gentleman understood the misunderstanding to his credit after 20 minutes of conversation which occurred during a 2 hour break where most of it was spent ONLY WITH OTHER MEMBERS and NOT WITH THE ABILITY TO CONTACT FAMILY OR TAKE CARE OF OTHER PERSONAL THINGS. I think based on this experience that during the training itself that privacy is not present there is an over application of requiring or strongly encouraging after the day's training to spend all free time with those in the training. Again that to me even as verbose as I am I still want my privacy especially when many of the things you hear about other people humble you and can also depress you further. So a real break from that from the people in that room is recommended. If you join this please keep these points in mind and outside the room keep a healthy moderate distance from other members of the room. Also make sure that your name is not dragged through the mud the way mine was. Frankly, this organization is in my opinion is away from its roots and would be more suitable if some of these issues were resolved AND It returned to its roots by having some one who is in fact not an LPC but rather a PHD in Psychology who is clinically trained in addition to being trained with their methods. If they strongly view you as a threat they will not let you at least defend an attack made at you. Its so irritating because Mr. Boyd is in fact a criminal lawyer of all people you know that everyone is innocent till proven guilty and he and Mitchell made my life very difficult and they also did that to another individual. They act like judge jury and prosecutor and that is not fair and that does indicate in mind in addition of what I spoken about Cult tendencies.


HOWEVER, given the actual specific definition it is not a cult. But I can see how many here can feel that way given my experience. My advice do not seek help from this organization UNLESS they obtain a Licensed PHD Clinical Psychologists so their methods can be regulated by the State.

I want to follow up on my previous comments. I am looking to possibly sue these guys I don't know that I can but I did have a discussion with a licensed Clinical Psychologist. He said that any type of humiliation is grounds for loss of license for the LPC. The LPC of Texas regulators can unfortunately go after her Laurie Mitchell only. They can't go after Boyd or the organization. I decided not to go that route but any suggestions on how to sue?

Mr. Moderator I never did hear from you or anyone else in here. Again I would be very cautious of this organization as I stated above. I do think I want to clarify on the definition of a cult I was in the Middle. HOWEVER as shown not for the contempt that the organization has. It now has even more powerful people than last year who are now on its new board. I would caution anyone who would join any group similar to this that unless it is regulated by the State where you can document or has some form of regulation and accepted practices to neutralize events that to avoid confrontation that would be best. To respond to Mr. Mr On your Mark. Mr. Boyd publicly humiliated me to the stage that I physically wanted to hurt that man. They do engage in humiliation. Remember I told you he's a criminal lawyer. That incident coupled with some childhood dreams and aspirations made me want to go to Law School so bad to stop people like him. When I felt the tendency of violence they would argue with me and not let me leave properly. Be careful of this group. No one told me how I could sue them. And moderator you never did reply but you allowed my comments to be posted. I would like a reply directly from you even if you don't post this comment.

Thanks,

rkhullar

Video online explaining working definition of a destructive cult.

See [www.youtube.com]

See [www.culteducation.com]

Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, who wrote the definitive book about thought reform (often called "brainwashing") also wrote a paper about cult formation. Lifton defined a cult as having the following three characteristics:

A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.

A process [is in use] call[ed] coercive persuasion or thought reform.

Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.

Also See [www.culteducation.com]

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

The group/leader is always right.

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving
validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

Ten signs of a safe group/leader.

A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.

A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses.

Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.

A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.

A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.

A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.

A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.

A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.

A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.

A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.

A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

Many of the things you described do occur but others that are very extreme that you described did not occur. I think they are careful in that regard. I say that because Texas is a deregulatory state. You could literally do anything and until your caught its nothing. There is no actual state level organization that could regulate them. One of the people who was a facilitator does have a Texas Certification and to have her examined is difficult. The process takes a year and a half and at the time back in 2016 the Psychological Board and Board of Counselors here was going through change. Not to be political but with Republicans running Statewide here a lot of things that need funding for more government services don't get funded so it takes longer. I have up to 5 years from the time of incident. I could still complain. I dont know how. Its not that simple. The attorney when he humilated me he used court techinques that would be used in criminal law. I get the feeling that Counselor Boyd used techniques that Prosecutors use. That this organization pays his bills I don't think his practice does. Your right unless we demanded to see how as a 501 C they operate and even then they probably would refuse. They should not be using Phil Mcgraw's name because Mcgraw sold his interest in 1984 for at that time a few hundred thousand dollars so he has nothing to do with it. NOTHING HE DOES TO MY KNOWLEDGE contradicts tradidtional Psychology he is or was clinically trained your LPC's which this lady was not. Also, going after the Attorney through the bar for defamation would be very difficult because he was not acting as an Attorney when he committed this act and so that is tricky. They are very astitute. Unless I can get past memebers within a 5 year rolling period and figure out how to do a class action civil suit it would be very difficult. I do think that they would be shut down if I sued Phil Mcgraw because they do use his name for the Mcgraw awards. So you described a lot of things and they because they are smart in the way they do things its hard even by definitions you have correctly set out for them to be considered an official cult even though I agree that they do border on it. The question is how do we find a way to either shut this organization down and bring them into the public eye because they are either are hidden OR there is positive press about them when there is press or at least have them siginificantly regulated so they can't get away with cult tendenecies and yet not do damage. I know based on what one of the people who is no longer with them as an employee but still is supportive of the organization told me and that is that they have had situations during this so called "WALK" where 10 people or more were forced out. So then becomes the question how do we hold this organization accountable or have it shut down.

See it would be very easy if the more extreme parts of what you laid out were present even in a Conservative state like Texas. But unfortunately they are not. That's the part that makes it hard to regulate these people especially here. What do we do so that this organization is either shut down or SIGNIFICANTLY REGULATED so that they can't do to me to any other individual. That's what I want to know.

Sincerely,

rkhullar

rkhullar,

Considering the desire to hurt the guy on stage, it sounds like they're deliberately hijacking your amygdala, and of course, in front of the whole group. This seems to be a common tactic in LGATS. Read this thread, if you haven't already. It's best to stay away and go through lawyers, if there is a need to communicate with them at all. They will do it over and over again, and tie you in knots.

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2017 04:01AM by kdag.

My daughter and son in-law has joined and become involved in Pathways Core Training in Dallas, TX. They have completely cut me out of their life and will not allow me to have any contact with my 5 year old granddaughter. I had been a huge part of my granddaughter's life since the day she was born. My daughter has been accusing me of things from her childhood that are not true, and she knows they are not true. My daughter and I have always been very close and have always had a great relationship. I truly believe that Pathways is a Cult and turns people against their families. When my daughter was still sending me messages even the content and the way things were said in the messages were not coming from my daughter, they were someone else's words! It has broken my heart that this is happening! I have heard that my granddaughter is acting out quite a bit, and I have been told by professionals that this could be her way of grieving the loss of our relationship! I have reached out to Pathways and they will not answer any of my messages. It is clear they have something to hide!

A Heart Broken Mother and Grandmother in Mississippi!

Hello all, I am back.

I am glad to see other folks have enough active brain cells to google this group.

I will be back soon with an update.

mfox2010.