I am new to this forum and am seeking some information.

I am close to a Landmark member who has completed up to and including SELP. I am very sceptical about Landmark and fearful about what it means for my friend. I have lots of questions but one issue is in view at the momnent.

My friend has made many disparaging remarks about those who are ill saying that this is "their racket". This seems also to extend to those who are dying through terminal illness which is apparently because those people "have not enrolled those around them in the possibility of a cure".

Whilst I would acknowledge there is a mind/body/spirit dimension to illness, particularly terminal illness, I don't think this is what is meant by these remarks. Can anyone shed any light on this part of the Landmark belief system?

Thanks for reading this :)

The fallacy of Landmard's "philosophy" is that each of us, individually, is completely responsible, and, in fact, a ~creator~ of everything that happens to us. It's a bizarre and absurd fantasy that makes no sense to anyone unless they are hypnotized or brainwashed or otherwise manipulated into some kind of megalomaniacal and solipsistic mental illness. Though the philosophical presuppositions can be argued ad nauseum, in the real world only fools or the insane think they have complete control over anything. Too silly for words, really. Landmark's assumption of control over illness is in the same category as Mary Baker Eddy's view of it as a personal failing or "falling from grace." Not to say there aren't millions of people walking around with "diseases" they've either created in their own imaginations or brought upon themselves, but Landmark and its cousins all over-estimate in the extreme the extent of personal power to effect health. Actually, they are in the business of selling power, or the illusion of power, to those who imagine themselves to have too little. It's just philosophical snake-oil instead of the bottled variety.


Ellen

My Landmarkian doctor was operating on the philosophy of illness as rackets, except he didn't tell me he believed this until he got disgusted that I wasn't "taking responsibility" for my health. Unfortunately, this belief is starting to seep into the mainstream. I've seen the posters in mainstream medical forums suggest to others to investigate why they are "choosing" to be sick.

Doc's girlfriend has become a self-appointed spokesperson for Falun Gong and I've seen transcripts of interviews in which she states that "physicians now know that at least 70% of illnesses are psychosomatic." A Google search traced this claim to Scientology and no where else.

What is ironic about LE and other groups is how they choose to stay in the dark ages of science. Epilepsy at one time was thought to be possession by evil spirits. IBS not too long ago was thought to be caused by emotional problems, but science has enough evidence now to show that it's the IBS that causes depressive symptoms.

What is dangerous is that medicine doesn't have effective therapies for many conditions, like migraines, women's problems, prostate problems, and when someone is fed up after trying anything, LE's philosophy that you are causing the problem can be very attractive.

Hi,

This is a very interesting and important debate. To instill the belief that the victim is fully responsible for their illness is not new. I have found this paper dating back almost 30 years ago (see below). It is also called "The ideology of choice" by some authors.

This ideology serves very well New Age cults because if their methods of endoctrination causes psychological or other damages to you, they will always revert to this ideology and say that the victim is to blame, not the organization.

Note also that in the medical world, patient who suffer from lung cancer due to smoking are often being blamed for their illnesses. But of couse, love and compassion takes over, and we do everything to find a cure. Also, isn't it the Tobacco companies that are ultimately responsible for creating the addiction and illnesses? I think court cases have demonstrated clearly that it is indeed the case. In the same vein, cults-like organizations should bear the responsibility for creating psychological damages to their victims. And of course, it is unacceptable to blame patients in terminal phases for their illness! This is outrageous.

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Int J Health Serv. 1977;7(4):663-80. Related Articles, Links

You are dangerous to your health: the ideology and politics of victim blaming.

Crawford R.

This article describes the emergence of an ideology which blames the individual for her or his illness and proposes that, instead of relying on costly and inefficient medical services, the individual should take more responsibility for her or his health. At-risk behavior is seen as the problem and changing life-style, through education and/or economic sanctions, as the solution. The emergence of the ideology is explained by the contradictions arising from the threat of high medical costs, popular expectations of medicine along with political pressures for protection or extension of entitlements, and the politicization of environmental and occupational health issues. These contradictions produce a crisis which is at once economic, political and ideological, and which requires responses to destabilizing conditions in each of these spheres. These ideological initiatives, on the one hand, serve to reorder expectations and to justify the retrenchment from rights and entitlements for access to medical services, and, on the other, attempt to divert attention from the social causation of disease in the commercial and industrial sectors.

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Having been at the recieving end of much coaching about "my racket" I believes its just a load of manipulation to keep people dependant on landmark and its "technology". The unfortunate thing is that everyone in landmark feels they have the "right" to coach anyone else on anything else!!!

I was very sick for a while and kept working on my "racket" and my "story" and my "inauthenticity" and still got sick... many in landmark believed it was still a racket etc but when I collapsed I noticed they still rang an ambulance and I still had surgury and blood transfusions. I was sick and needed medical attention.

When I was talking to the dr he said there is [b:4071038935][u:4071038935]no[/u:4071038935][/b:4071038935] way that what was wrong was "emotionally caused". I have a disorder that requires me to monitor certain aspects of my health. If i do this I am well. If i dont I will get sick again. There was no racket, nothing I could have done to talk my body into getting well! I take medication and will continue to do so for the rest of my life.

People fall for this "racket" crap and make others feel badly by using it against them.

Having said all this I know that stress and emotional things can cause illness but its not a racket or a story its stress or something else!

I also want to point out that somethings can be dealt with by talking them through and natural remedies. But there are some that can't and its recognising the difference that counts. Landmark does not recognise anything but its own propaganda

Well said!

Something else that should be looked at carefully by people being manipulated by alternative practitioners, LE coaches, or anyone for that matter. The notion that things will get worse before they get better can be used to keep someone dependent. My doctor did "try" some herbs and "safe" supplements for my original symptoms, which made me sick. He didn't stop them but rather insisted it was the healing that was taking place and that if I stopped, I would never get better. Similarly, really bad therapy or crazymaking technology a la LE can worsen a person's emotional state, but they will likely be told that this is normal, good even, part of the journey. Legitimate therapy can be difficult, but it shouldn't cause depersonalization or emotional collapse.

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The notion that things will get worse before they get better can be used to keep someone dependent.

The hard thing with this is if what someone may be dealing with is emotional often it does get worse (Or appear to) when talking it through. but this is short lived usually where as companys like landmark or other con artists usually keep it going for a long long time.

It was amazing to me to note that as soon as I started in on the medication and following the drs advice and stop listening and trying to fix myself by using landmark technology I got well very quickly.

My mother believed in this as well. When I was younger, she believed in it so strongly that she never took any of us to the doctor or dentist. She seemed to have mellowed out on that one as she got older (probably because the evidence before her demonstrated how false it was -- I think part of her belief system was that she could also avoid ageing if she believed strongly enough that she wouldn't age, but then as time took its inevitable toll...)

I did notice that she was much more likely to believe in the possibility of herself having a genuine illness than anyone else. So, if she was "coming down with a cold", it was a real one, but if I was catching a cold, I was just "looking for attention". Landmark and its analogues really mess with people's perceptions.

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but if I was catching a cold, I was just "looking for attention". Landmark and its analogues really mess with people's perceptions

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This is very true. One of the things I heard a lot of was "you are enrolling everyone in your story of ill health"

I could never work that out because If i was "enrolling" surely they wouldn't keep coaching me on how I wasn't sick?

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sonnie_dee

This is very true. One of the things I heard a lot of was "you are enrolling everyone in your story of ill health"

I could never work that out because If i was "enrolling" surely they wouldn't keep coaching me on how I wasn't sick?

Oh Lordy....you can see how this would get just about anybody all tied up in knots if they valued their job, their position, the group of people they were with, the labor they had put into the endeavor, the future they envision with the group, etc., etc.

It is just sooooo silly. And so cruel, to do this to someone.

Not only does the person have to suffer the disease, but the "idea" that they did it to themselves. How could you possibly feel worse. It's like living with your own worst enemy - YOU. Of course, that means giving over to someone else, specifically, your "coach," who is positioned to be a better, illness-free friend to your very own pathetic self. Yikes! Manipulative, predatory, and ruthless. An "upline" exploitive "friend" who is positioned to profit from your labor, sap your energy, and suck the life out of you. All the while having you "believe" they are working in YOUR interests. Quite a trick! And absolutely disgusting.


Ellen