Researcher:

Has research been conducted by scientific means regarding your claims about eye movments and by what professionals specifically?

What studies can you cite that were sponsored by what institution?

And were the results then peer-reviewed and subsequently published?

If so, please cite the title of the subsequently published research/study, the publisher and its publication date.

This information did not appear on your personal website.

It seems your claims have been discreditted though. The Skeptic's Dictionary notes this.

See [skepdic.com]

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...the research regarding the necessity of the eye movement component is currently inconclusive...No one has been able to adequately explain how EMDR is supposed to work.

And eye movement theory has little, if anything, to do with the subjects or groups discussed at this board.

I don't see anything compelling within your posts to demonstrate otherwise. And this has nothing to do with Landmark or any other group discussed here.

It seems like you are using this board to promote your theories, rather than contribute in any meaningful way to the discussion here.

Just out of curiosity has anyone else received the "I want an empty and meaningless life." sales pitch? :?:

Oh one more thing that I remember. The last weekend I was with my ex (when the LE salespitch came out.) She asked me what kind of thinker I considered myself to be. I told her I am an individual who doesnt follow anything simply because its the popular thing to do. I mentioned that I never want to be "one the herd."and that people who did were cows being led to the slaughter. She laughed at this crack, a very nervous and forced laugh. Mind you I said this before I had ever heard of landmark.
I look back now and realize why she reacted in this way. It was because I had unknowingly pegged LE.

Hi reyedge:


Back in the 1970s, est was called "cattle therapy."

Also, she was trying to get you to do her work; for purposes of recruiting, cults divide people into different psychological categories - so-called thinkers, feelers, seekers, doers, and game-players. Analytical types, those who are more emotional, those on some type of "spiritual" path, and those who like action better than words. If you are too cagey to reveal yourself as one of the above, they'll try to rope you in with the "game" stuff. Of course, each type gets a different recruitment strategy.

What's the "empty & meaningless" pitch? That's supposed to be some kind of "punch-line" at the end of one of the training sessions. And a "double-lock-and key" type trick of a kind of "existential" hypnotic suggestion. (i.e. I instruct you to "forget" and then to "forget" that you have forgotten. Only in this case it destroys whatever meaning you gave to it and then destroys your reaction to this destruction - all the better to insert Landmark "meaning.")


Ellen

[quote="midonov123"

I suspect there is some kind of a link between thise whi have created that movie and the "Physics of Consciousness Research Group" that was funded by Werner Erhard in the 70's, but I couldn't find any documentation to confirm that. =quote]



Hi MD,

You've probably seen this but I'll post it here anyway, for anyone who hasn't:


(From Jack Sarfatti's Illuminati

In the Thick of It!)

[url]http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/hambone/si03.html[/url]


".....A former student of physicist John Wheeler [24], Robert Fuller was head of Werner's Foundation. Fuller had been President of Oberlin College but had suffered a mid-life crisis and had fallen under Werner's influence. Fuller now heads the World Watch Institute in Washington. Fuller [25] was jealous of Werner's fondness for me and that this was a factor precipitating my falling out with Werner. I was worried about the crypto-Nazi feel of the est-org, but I had hoped that Werner would get his intellectual act together and say something of genuine interest in terms of physics and philosophy. I was not at all subservient to Werner in his presence like most of the academics that surrounded and apparently adored him. Some of them called him the "new Heidegger" [26]. Professor Irwin Corey [27] made more sense. There was a lot of talk of Werner running for President one day. Werner said he would appoint me to be head of the National Science Foundation. Werner's brother Nathan Rosenberg was in the Navy as an aide to President Carter's Secretary of Defense Harold Brown. [28] Kevin Garvey [29] told me that Werner had fifteen of loyal estoids in the Carter White House. Werner was very active with trainings of government people in Washington D.C. Carter [30] had created Project Scanate [31] for remote-viewing of military targets by psychics. Werner used remote-viewing in his training and he also contributed money to SRI for that project."



[url]http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/hambone/people.html#erhard[/url]


"Born Jack Rosenberg, Erhard is the founder of est (Erhard Seminar Training) and the Forum.

Erhard is a former Scientologist, and brought many of their tenants and methods with him to est. A shortcut to understanding est is to imagine Scientology, except replace "science fiction writer" with "encyclopedia salesman".

In the mid 1970s, Erhard financed Jack Sarfatti and the Physics/Consciousness Research Group, and was involved with Michael Murphy and the Esalen Institute. According to Sarfatti, Erhard gave funds to the SRI remote viewing project.
(Sarfatti, Jack, "In the Thick of It")

John Mack was formerly on the board of advisors for est. Erhard is thanked in the Acknowledgments page of Mind Reach, the book by Harold Puthoff and Russell Targ describing the remote viewing research done at SRI."

What's the "empty & meaningless" pitch

empty and meaningless is supposed to be this point where you realise that life is empty and meaningless and every ounce of meaning we have in our lives we have put there... sometimes good meaning.. sometimes not so good.

What it also means is that every thing in your life... good bad or otherwise is your own doing! If your partner leaves you and you feel bad or upset this is your own doing, you are the one who put the meaning into everything. Empty and meaningless (if you truely accept this load of rubbish) would have you turn around and so...my partner left me. Ok and thats the end of it.

While I was involved in Landmark I used to get coaching on this A LOT. I guess I was a little too human because I sure as heck added emotions (meaning) and thoughts (meaning) and opinion (meaning) to everything.

Now I can see that you can't be empty and meaningless because that is what animals with out emotions are. Humans are emotive people.

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sonnie_dee
What's the "empty & meaningless" pitch

Doesn't it mean that your life is empty and meaningless without the big and happy Landmark family? To me, it's just an emotional hook to keep you in Landmark's circle of influence.

My ex-girfriend used to tell me that if it was not for Landmark, she would probably commit suicide!!!

MD

Quote
sonnie_dee
What's the "empty & meaningless" pitch

empty and meaningless is supposed to be this point where you realise that life is empty and meaningless and every ounce of meaning we have in our lives we have put there... sometimes good meaning.. sometimes not so good.

What it also means is that every thing in your life... good bad or otherwise is your own doing! If your partner leaves you and you feel bad or upset this is your own doing, you are the one who put the meaning into everything. Empty and meaningless (if you truely accept this load of rubbish) would have you turn around and so...my partner left me. Ok and thats the end of it.

While I was involved in Landmark I used to get coaching on this A LOT. I guess I was a little too human because I sure as heck added emotions (meaning) and thoughts (meaning) and opinion (meaning) to everything.

Now I can see that you can't be empty and meaningless because that is what animals with out emotions are. Humans are emotive people.

Actually all animals have meaning to entities in reality. At the lowest level it is a hard wired meaning that this entity is positive such as food, a mate, etc. and that entity is negative such as predator, competitor, etc. The capabilities human beings have is to consciously and volitionaly determine meaning. This requires correctly recognizing the advantage/disadvantage an entity has for one survival, purposes and values. To take away meaning is to try and make a human being into an inanimate object like a rock that can't even determine and act for it's own survival.

-- Caligari

Helo,

Is anyone awake? or are you so bzy workin extra hours to pay for that gas that is under IRAQ? "oh those young men & and women that are protectin' OUR oil! ('~]

People. will you ever wake up to what the Shrub & cronnnies are doin"?

Why do you think Blair only won by a "RCH" ?

USA people, how can you allow this?

PAX

[quote="sonnie_dee"


empty and meaningless is supposed to be this point where you realise that life is empty and meaningless and every ounce of meaning we have in our lives we have put there... sometimes good meaning.. sometimes not so good.

What it also means is that every thing in your life... good bad or otherwise is your own doing! If your partner leaves you and you feel bad or upset this is your own doing, you are the one who put the meaning into everything. Empty and meaningless (if you truely accept this load of rubbish) would have you turn around and so...my partner left me. Ok and thats the end of it.]



--This is where the break is, for some people, if they accept the idea and take to heart that they can (easily) let go, ignore, or disavow any bad or painful feelings that arise from the usual problems. When the "training" convinces you that the ~creation~ of those feelings and reactions to external events is an internal phenomenon, (ordinarily under SOME control and, perhaps, mediation by training, discipline, experience, and/or volition), is, rather, under TOTAL or COMPLETE control using "special" Landmarkian (scientological) ~technology.~ Part of the problem is that this actually works, (some of the time), and who wouldn't want to be able to eliminate the painful feelings of anger, fear, shame, and sadness that occupy most of us so much of the time. But the mechanism that makes this ~technology~ "work" is what might be seen as a volitional act of "dissociation." I imagine the act becomes habitual or reflexive with many followers and becomes a form of insanity because without a normal (negative) reaction to an untoward event, how would you know what an untoward event was? You would become farther and farther removed from reality and begin to live in a "fantasy" world - another way of saying "crazy."



[While I was involved in Landmark I used to get coaching on this A LOT. I guess I was a little too human because I sure as heck added emotions (meaning) and thoughts (meaning) and opinion (meaning) to everything.]


--....an indication of your mental health and strength. Congratulations.



[Now I can see that you can't be empty and meaningless because that is what animals with out emotions are. Humans are emotive people.]


--Actually, animals feel the full compliment of emotions, and, by all indications, in far more direct, pure, and intense expressions because they are not distorted by intellect. Remember, emotion is our SECOND most important "intelligence" - the one we relied on before we had or could use words. (The senses of smell, sight, hearing, taste, and touch are our first "intelligence." A chick might see the silhouette of a hawk in the sky above, but without the instinctive reaction of fright, it wouldn't know to run and hide. We humans retain some of these "primal" or instinctive fears, though we've come to discount or make little of them with the hubris of our intellectual capacity.) The real (genuine or honest) emotional reaction to life events is how we come to know what is of value. So the erosion of this capacity, through such practices as Landmark ~technology,~ degrades not only sanity but intelligence - it makes you crazy AND stupid.


Ellen