I'm a little nervous writing this because of my experience with LE has led me to believe that I will be "out of integrity" by not confronting the people/organization directly with this issue. But here I go.

About 9 years ago, I took the Landmark Forum on the urging of my future Mother-in-Law (who has had nothing but positive experiences from Landmark - changes even I can see. She is much more warm and open now, but I digress).

I had a wonderful experience and for the first few weeks I was on cloud nine. Everything seemed to be going right. Until I realized that it was unrealistic to live the "Landmark" world in the "real" world. Eventually things went back to pre-Forum status. I did, however glean some positive things from it.

I went to the 10 session seminar afterwards, and felt increasingly ill-at-ease with what was being offered. During this seminar, many people completed the Advanced course and were absolutely glowing and gushing about how life-changing it was. We were encouraged to attend a night session about the advance course (of course).

So I did, and had the first of two psychologically damaging encounters with Landmark. When it came time for the person next to me to ask if I would enroll in the advanced course, I said no, it wasn't the right time for me.

Then the pressure started. The person next to me was a plant, I swear, because he kept asking - oops, I mean "requesting" that I enroll. I kept saying no, I "choose" not to. I naively thought that by using their language, I could talk my way out of it.

Apparently this was not acceptable. Another woman got in on the action and offered to pay for me. I refused again. I rose to get a drink of water and this man followed and told me that everytime I said no that my demeaner got colder and colder and I got more and more closed off. Gee, I wonder what would cause me to do that.

I was determined not to break. However the leader (who I forget who it was, but I think it was Richard Condon) and several (3-4) other people must have sensed the disturbance, as I was now surrounded by people telling me I had to take the advanced course. I was so far away from the doors I didn't feel I could bolt as I didn't want to make more of a scene.

Eventually, the leader wore me down and took me, trembling to my toes to the registration table to enroll. I regretted it the minute the check left my hand. He was so "proud" of me.

Geez, reading this I realize how sick it all sounds. Just out of interest, I will tell you I did not return to my seminar and I withdrew my enrollment (losing $100 in the process). I was disgusted at how I was treated and my anger at Landmark took a long while to abate. I was told by my MIL that he was let go, but I think that was just at the Chicago center, since his name still pops up.

For some crazy reason, a few years later I decided to review the Forum (must have been temporary insanity). I was ok on Friday, and on Saturday my father got a hysterical phone call from me forgiving him for his harsh discipline growing up. They told me later this was very disturbing to them. They were concerned about my mental stability. I thought all was well, and I got praise and acceptance for my actions from the staff and leader. Sunday we were sitting there when everyone is obscenely overjoyed and I start trembling, my heart pounding, my head swimming. I tried to wait it out but it just got worse (imagine having someone sitting behind you with a loaded pistol pointed at your back). I called over a staff member and explained what was happening and she said I must be confronted with some issue. At this point, my survival instinct kicked in and I fled, and called my husband to pick me up.

In those years between Forums, I had been treated for depression and anxiety, but hadn't needed treatment for a few years. I think the stress of the Forum re-activated my anxiety disorder that had been dormant for so long. I still suffer from anxiety from time to time.

Now my husband was coerced by his parents to take the Wisdom Course, I went to the first family night and enrolled. To be honest, it was a much gentler course and I had much more control over what I took to heart, probably because of my earlier experiences. I got a lot out of it, but would I take it again? Probably not. I think I'm done with Landmark, as is my husband. In fact, he didn't want to do the Wisdom Course, but did it out of love for his parents. Throughout the Wisdom Course, when people would share their breakthroughs, I became very cynical. For some, all I could think is that they needed some real therapy, for others, their total immersion in everything Landmark seemed more of an avoidance of real life, than a solution to their problems.

Others, no amout of "transformation" education was going to help them.

While I can see where there may be some good in these programs, there are too many instances where things can go horribly wrong.

Thank you for listening, I needed to get it off my chest. I still feel guilty saying anything negative about LE, considering that I got such mixed results, and my mother-in-law and her family is still very involved. Plus, I knew from experience how confrontaional it could be and for some reason thought it wouldn't cause me psychological problems.

Next time I get the urge, I'll grab a self-help book from the library instead. Far less confrontational.

Hi Amy, and welcome!

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I'm a little nervous writing this because of my experience with LE has led me to believe that I will be "out of integrity" by not confronting the people/organization directly with this issue. But here I go.

No need to feel nervous. Try to recognize that this "out of integrity" concept is a form of manipulation, more subtle than the outright manipulation you encountered when you were surrounded and pressured to sign up for the Advanced Course, but manipulation just the same.

Think about it. Why would Landmark try to make you feel guilty about speaking out about Landmark with people outside of Landmark? Because you might learn the truth? Because then they can't manipulate you into dismissing your discomfort?

Feel free to discuss your experiences here...there are people here who've been through similar things, and people (like me) who've watched loved ones go through it.

Welcome again.

Glam

Thanks Glam! I also feel like I'm betraying my inlaws in some way because they cannot find fault with the program. But I realize that I can express anything here.

this is a shame the way landmark abuses people and its
a shame the way the people that obviously have already
been brainwashed into believe they are enlightened somehow
cooperate with it.

this is abuse people . u can call it some thing else if u makes
u feel better about yourself but this is abusive behavior.

now with that being said, it wont stop. there arent enough
people in the united states to come against abusive behavior
to stop it. the christian right uses basically these same
tactics thourgh their politicians . if u dont believe me

read the news.

In my mother-in-laws defense, she did give them hell about how I was treated and was told that it would never happen again. Somehow I don't believe it.

And for the most part, I did the Wisdom Course for my husband, I didn't want him there alone, when he already didn't really want to be there.

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Then the pressure started. The person next to me was a plant, I swear, because he kept asking - oops, I mean "requesting" that I enroll. I kept saying no, I "choose" not to. I naively thought that by using their language, I could talk my way out of it.

Apparently this was not acceptable. Another woman got in on the action and offered to pay for me. I refused again. I rose to get a drink of water and this man followed and told me that everytime I said no that my demeaner got colder and colder and I got more and more closed off. Gee, I wonder what would cause me to do that.

I was determined not to break. However the leader (who I forget who it was, but I think it was Richard Condon) and several (3-4) other people must have sensed the disturbance, as I was now surrounded by people telling me I had to take the advanced course. I was so far away from the doors I didn't feel I could bolt as I didn't want to make more of a scene.

Eventually, the leader wore me down and took me, trembling to my toes to the registration table to enroll. I regretted it the minute the check left my hand. He was so "proud" of me

This is exactly how Landmark works. They manipulate everyone to get to this point. If you ever listen to what they say at the front, those that register are "encouraged" to talk to others about registereing.

The plants as you say are people who assist or have completed the course and are there for someone who is finishing and they will push anyone into doing it.

A few years ago Landmark tried to put in a change about the pushiness and for a short time it worked... but there were alot less people going into the courses so the pushiness came back pretty darn quick.

By the way what has been written is not "out of integrity" Landmark is out of integrity by their own behaviour!

boy I felt angry reading this. I remember when I started to shut these people out of my life. I felt like talking about then would mean 'out of integity and all'. That soon changed with I heard other peoples stories. Then realizing that i wasn't the only one that had to deal with this. At least I didn't go into a mental breakdown. Some people do.

Actually nothing in your message seems 'out of integity'. You didn't make any negative comments about the forum. You just stated you experience and what is the use of confronting these people. They will just try to manupulate you more into believing that your wrong or suppressive or whatever else they could pull out of the air.

Amy this is exactly what people should know about the forum before even start the introduction. people should know what it is that is going to happen while attending the seminar.

I have a question, how did your husband respond? and did you ever try to bring him to the forum? was he against it?
Normally the forum insists a lot on you bringing your family.

thanks
key.

u seem to have a tendency to insist that there is something
good in landmark. until u relieve yourself of this way of thinking
i believe u will probably go back again.

u have basically said they there abusive, not in those terms
, they would not let u leave without signing up.

hopefully u dont have some kind of emotional problem that
landmark fulfills for u.

stand up for yourself. say no. dont give them your money and
dont attend programs. if u cant do this u will again be
in their clutches.

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patrick-darcy
u seem to have a tendency to insist that there is something
good in landmark. until u relieve yourself of this way of thinking
i believe u will probably go back again.

Hey, give her a break! She has a right to her opinion. She's done Landmark and you haven't, and if she says she got something good out of it along with the bad, who are you to tell her that her feelings are not valid? Now who's doing the brainwashing?

I've never done Landmark but I know a lot of people who have, and all of them say they got a lot out of it too. The only thing that kept them from going back was the ridiculous price of the courses. If it wasn't so damn expensive, I would have checked it out just to see what it's all about.

I appreciate this woman's honesty in posting here, because I think she gives a true picture of what goes on in Landmark. Nothing in life is black & white - it's a mix of good and bad. If there wasn't SOME good in Landmark's teachings, do you think the pressure & manipulation alone would be enough to make so many people go through the classes? How else would they suck so many people in?