Speaking from personal experience of a Landmark Forum, the high I experienced was definitely physical rather than psychological. That became clear to me in the days and weeks after my attendance of the Forum. I felt strange (albeit a happy strange) and was aware that my feelings were not simply the warmth that comes from being surrounded by people who love you. I felt superhuman and yet I knew I wasn't. I felt supreme confidence & yet I knew it came from nowhere as my life was still in the same stuck place that led me to the Forum in the first place. My feelings of confidence did not come from a new self belief in my talents gained from the Forum but from a physical sensation in my body.

I think as a society in the West, we've lost the warmth of being part of a community which many mainstream religions offer. Whilst I can't believe in any of those mainstream teachings I can see the satisfaction to be gained from being part of a community like that. In the past I used to wish I could believe to be part of something but I know I can't. The ideologies make no sense to me.

For those who are athiest/agnostic - they might be tempted by the false promises of LGATs because of the social side. That is how I got drawn in. People at my introduction night telling me how much they got from LM, with big welcoming smiles. Creepy in hindsight but when you're alone and lonely its very tempting.

I think as humans we are all social creatures and the cult of individualism is hard for most of us. We all need others and that is what LGATs feed on.

The physical high which I experienced due to the extreme physical and psychological stressors on my body was a new experience for me. Initially it was gratifying but when it took a long time to die down, I became worried that this wasn't a good thing. I guess I'm lucky that was my take on it. Another person might simply have wanted more.

I'm very grateful to the OP for starting this thread because its helped me understand further the strange sensations I experienced after participating in a LGAT.

Good mooorning members!

For all those interested for whatever reasons in this topic, lets celebrate the ninth year of this message board with a peep at the Golden Oldies--a member named Guy, who corresponded on the old Google listserve as 'Guy Fawkes'.

Guy was a former operator in Landmark, got out and made quite a stir when arriving here and providing inside knowledge.

Guy also communicated with various trolls.

Here are the posts from this estimable member. Begin at the bottom of the page and then read your way upward.

[forum.culteducation.com]

We are Social Beings--This is Our Glory and Our Danger


And if you go to this page, you will see where 'Guy' identifies as a former employee.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Many want your attention, your time, your vitality and your money.

Trust but verify.

Fact check anything and anyone before you give your time attention and your heart.

Thoughts for the tenth anniversary of 9-11

Terrorists can only kill maim and destroy property.

Only we can destroy our living identity as Americans by turning bigoted and opting for mere security at the expense of civil liberties.


Citizenship is not a spectator sport

A society that needs heroes to appear in every generation to save it is a society in decline.

'Unhappy is the land that needs heroes'--Bertold Brecht

"You become what you do"

Gustav Hasford 'The Short Timers"--

(The novel on which the film Full Metal Jacket was based.)

Another early page of posts.

If you see strings of code words, those represent quotation marks.

[forum.culteducation.com]

From Guy
'FL' stands for Forum Leader

[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

Quote

"I got so focused on doing the work that my career suffered... to the point that I eventually the only option open to me was to go on staff..."

Read that again...

"I got so focused on doing the work that my career suffered... to the point that I eventually the only option open to me was to go on staff..."

Again...

"I got so focused on doing the work that my career suffered... to the point that I eventually the only option open to me was to go on staff..."

This is no joke.
You might think that GC4062 had some choice there.

You would be mistaken.

Everyone I knew on staff was there because of this.

Everyone.

When you get "squeezed through the funnel", what we called it, you are pared down to "who you are as possibility". This usually comes to some high falooting statement about the "possibility of mankind" or if you are really "clean" just "possibility".
You are wide open for deep programming at this point.
You should see the faces of those that fail the "funnel". The look of someone that will never be able to experience the "integrity" of living their lives from "possibility". Everything else is a shallow replacement.

"Being is Source"
"Doing arises from Being"
"Having arises from Doing"

If we were going to have any "integrity" with our being, doing, and having, it gets very narrow.
This leaves you with only one "real" option: staff.
Nowhere else would bring "completion" to your "existence".
Where else could you "have" from what you "do" because of "who you are".
Everything else "rings" hollow.

The "Holy Mission" to bring "possibility to mankind".
It's funny now to remember the conversations about getting rid of that thought that were really meant to implant it more deeply. The old NLP trick.

Most of staff never knows what hit them. Even most of the FL's.
The duped of the duped.

Eliciting culpability from anyone below "source" may be a waste of time.
Jack sources Harry, Joan, Steve, Nancy, Mark, Randy, Jinnendra, Laurel, etc...

Like the common Nazi defence: "we were just following orders", we were twisted through the "funnel".

Unfortunately, our own little "Adolf" is basking in the sunshine laughing his ass off, rolling in piles of cash.

When you find out it's a ponzi sham, it rapes you. You are never the same afterwards

and also from Guy

Quote

The meme of "responsibilty" is used to get you to "acountable"/at fault for your illness. That's why he used the "common denominator" theme. The dissonance comes in when he states that "people have very little control over their lives".
"No control/yet responsible".
ZORK!!!!
Only "sourcing" gives control.
Source is Jack/Werner.



Quote:
Hope

Quote

Both my doctor 's and LE's consistent reference to "responsibility" is the most deeply embedded meme for me. After the "love-bomb" phase of my visits with the doctor, he started slipping in the suggestion that I was the "common denominator" in any and all problems, but at the same time, and I didn't put 2 + 2 together at the time, he would say that people have very little control over their lives. He really stressed his perception of me being a control freak when I first declined an invitation to go to an Intro night at LE and when I declined the use of Ecstasy to uncover suppressed emotions.

And also from Guy

[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote

To GC4062,
I haven't gotten their shit out of my head yet. Sorry, I wish I could tell you differently. It makes me want to blow my head off. Some days are spent wrestling the voices I here internally from the programming.
This shit has ruined countless friendships, relationships with family and my career. My reputation is forever smeared with their filth.
I wish I could say I was more powerful than their programming and could just whisk it away. If I did I would be lying.
The LEC lie.

Elena-

At LEC it's being "Source". A slight word switch from "god". A puerile leftover from Jack and Ron's narcissistic meglomania.

Again, to make things clear, all the material provided above is from an early correspondant to this message board who chose the handle, 'Guy' and who corresponded on the old Google listserve alt.fan.landmark under the handle 'Guy Fawkes'.

Guy reported having been an employee of LEC, giving a remarkable perspective.

Because this message board is nine years old, earlier posts tend to be buried under more recent ones.

Guy's posts are well worth reading in their entirety--new visitors to this board risk missing out on them unless some of us act as docents and guide them to these great classics.

Guy wrote:[quote]." This is a new form of cult using the methodolgy of cult procedures, while seeking to avoid the segregating nature of religion...

Having the variety of differing church members participating and voicing support is supposed to give the perception that LEC is exempt from cultic properties. Matter of fact LEC wants you to go back to your church and bring in your pastor and the flock. Just think what kind of $$$ they'll bring in for the coffers.

Rookie is right on about motivating factors. LEC uses that knowledge of human motivation to garner revenue

The center staff of LEC is incredibly low paid. The work on salary and average somewhere around 70 hours per week.

We get so hooked on the mind virus that we forego reason.

Money was not the impelling influence for me to go to work for LEC and become an employee. I was making way more money than they would pay.

I thought it was about making a difference in the world.:rolleyes: Silly me. Once I got there though: It's numbers, numbers, numbers, etc... :D

Numbers=revenue.

We're led to believe that numbers=making a difference.

The only difference being made is what Werner is having for dinner on his yacht.

This is where the false nature of the monster rears it's ugly head. Money is the motivation for the company. Everything else is just more advertizing to generate more recruits and revenue.

The game is to get recruits to bring in revenue while they think they're saving the world(their family, friends, environment,etc...).

Glen,
After you read "Influence (by Cialdini-Corboy)and those other books mentioned you will get a clear picture of the dynamics involved.

As to your other question, I became aware I was in a cult. GC4062 may concur with his his own experience.

It is not the cult of a Branch Davidian nature.

There is no written dogma to follow. It is all spoken.

We did not hole up in a compound fighting off the ATF. We did spend enormous amounts of time at the centers fighting off "resignation and cynicism"
:rolleyes:.

That was one of the "battle-cries".

"Standing for a world...blah, blah, blah..." was another rallying call to arms.

Dissent is excoriated. Critical thinking is reduced to "cynicism" and expelled.

This is a new form of cult using the methodolgy of cult procedures, while seeking to avoid the segregating nature of religion.

Having the variety of differing church members participating and voicing support is supposed to give the perception that LEC is exempt from cultic properties.

All it really shows is that we were craftier in our methods in garnering revenues. "You can be one of them and still be one of us." Matter of fact LEC wants you to go back to your church and bring in your pastor and the flock. Just think what kind of $$$ they'll bring in for the coffers.:D:D:D

LEC attempts to master the perception of itself. Inside of it's own philosophy is that you can mold other peoples perception of you to your benefit. All you have to do is read any of their propaganda with some critical thinking applied to see their attempt to position themselves as a credible venue.

If you can get people to think that you are credible, you've won the battle for their minds.

There is no credibility to their company.

Training is a joke.

The only credentials you need to become a Forum Leader is producing numbers=recruits=revenue.

[forum.culteducation.com][/quote]

and from a person who led Introductions:

Hi, I understand how groups like this can affect those with bipolar disorder, inducing episodes. My question is a bit different... What percentage of these groups members have bipolar disorder? Does it mirror the population at large or is there something to these groups that is particularly appealing to someone with bipolar disorder who may not be completely happy with their life?

I ask because I was part of a questionable group, I saw people have bipolar episodes, I knew other people telling me they were bipolar but were able to go off their beds when they entered, others were discouraged from seeing their psychologists, etc. So when I see a large number of smart, ostensibly-capable people subjecting themselves to something that I very quickly figured out was wrong (quickly, though not easily or without struggle), I wonder how many of those who continue to subject themselves are suffering from untreated or poorly treated psychological issues.

Again, to restate the question (and speculative answers are fine), do aspects of these groups appeal to those with BPD, is BPD overrepresented in those joining, and does BPD explain why some stay in?

You betcha.

It's no great leap to the conclusion that people like Werner Erhard have figured out ways to dove-tail themselves and their programs into the normal to mild swings most of us feel. I suspect those more seriously affected by mood cycles -- whether diurnal, hormonal, nutritional, reflexive, deprivational, trauma or disease-related, pharmaceutical, etc., etc. -- are especially vulnerable to the euphoria-inducing combination of tricks and tactics utilized by the folks at Landmark FU-cation and all the similar programs.

Here's how I think it works: Landmarkers "fuse" their messages of "positive-thinking" and "recruit more people" onto the higher levels of the cycling and likewise piggy-back critical thoughts or impulses to leave the group to the lower ones. In addition, there are parallel "programs" that are seeded into the gullible that involve issues of identity, self-assessment, and emotional vulnerability. It becomes a braid of conflicting sensations and impressions that are very difficult to tease apart, and, at some point, ignoring reality turns into a mandate for survival -- or at least feeling good about surviving.

What you've stated above is reason enough to put these quacks out of business. Encouraging people to discard medications who are in dire need of them to stabilize emotional illnesses is practicing medicine without a license.

What was the early evidence that tipped you off? (I recall getting up and leaving an "introduction" to Silva Mind Control when the "leader" suggested there were ways to walk through walls. I suspect it's similar to L. Ron Hubbard's "exteriorizing" or Werner Erhard's "remote viewing.")



Ellen

Hi iib

As someone with bipolar disorder, and as someone who has spent a considerable amount of time studying bipolar disorder, I can't see any reason that people with bipolar disorder would make up a greater portion of LGAT participants than they do of the general population. If anything people who are responsible about their illnesses (AND WHO ARE ADEQUATELY WARNED ABOUT THE TRAINING) would avoid them at all costs. Bipolar disorder is, however, a function of nature and nurture - nurture in the case of triggering mania is often a very stressful event coupled with sleep deprivation. Since LGATs provide the nurture component it stands to reason that you would come into contact with an elevated proportion of people that had been pushed into a manic or hypomanic state. It's a case of LGATs causing mania, rather than bipolar people being attracted to LGATs.

As a caveat I would acknowledge that if LGATs state (or at least hint quite directly) that they are some form of psychotherapy then possibly the type of bipolar person who is into alternative healing would be attracted to them.

DL