My husband is currently at the training for the Great Life Foundation, located in Salt Lake City. I had no clue what he was getting himself into until 10 min before he left for the first meeting and I read about it online. From everything that I can find on it and other LGAT's like it, I am very worried about him. He won't tell me anything that is going on b/c of the code of conduct he has to follow. I told him that I didn't like that at all- since we should not be keeping secrets from each other. He has miraculously given up drinking caffeine of any kind (even though I've been trying to help him with that for months), spends hours on his homework that he won't share with me and neglecting other duties between our family and church. He comes home at 1 in the morning and today, left again at 9:30 b/c can't be late. He promises me that he will be a changed man when this is all done. I woke up this morning to hear some of his phone conversation and everything he spoke of (arc support, red/black game, yelling, etc...) is stuff I have read about and I don't like. He's mad that I am not supporting him, but I don't know how! He won't tell me what is going on, is gone ALL day long, leaving me alone with 3 young children. I don't see any changes b/c he spends all his time either on the phone or writing in his journal for the class. He's even expressed interest in me attending the same meetings, but I've flat out told him that I won't and have no interest in it at all.

Can anyone please give me some more information about GLF? What can I do to support him? What is life going to be like when he gets done? I'm so scared and worried sick about him. I feel like I'm loosing my husband already and the more he attends these classes, the further away he slips.

Thank you for you help... I just don't know what else to do.

I was at this classes graduation and all I can say is:

1) The trainers have no qualifications for the mental and physical stress they put people thru.
In your face yelling,no bathroom breaks or food or water for 5 hours at a time....beating on chairs.
People at graduation had bandages on their hands from this. 13 hour class sessions. Very little sleep due to the fact
when you are trying to sleep your mind is so overworked from this shit you have been thru it is still highly active.
This is to break you down to where you are putty in their hands. Everyone at Graduation looked HAPPY but extremely EXHAUSTED.
Watch ONE WHO FLEW OVER THE COOCOOS NEST to see the look I am describing. mY PARTNER DIDN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE ME WHEN I WALKED UP!!!!
5 years together and after 4 days with this group she forgot what I look like!

2) The whole training is based on UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. All the trainees feel coming out of this that they now have that UNCONDITIONAL LOVE within the
group because of all the
shit they went thru together. They now feel safe in the group and thats what keeps the money coming in. even though they would never associate with each other if it hadn't been for them being locked in a room together for 13 hours crying and screaming at each other.

They will sign up for more classes right away to support each other so they can continue their "JOURNEY" together. (CULT comes into play here)
As well as call everyone they know to tell them how AMAZING it was and LIFE CHANGING and they should go!

3) Anyone that doesn't support them on their JOURNEY is against them and will eventually be left. No matter how much logic you throw at them they will see you as "INSECURE CAUSE YOU HAVEN'T GONE"..."NEGATIVE AND CLOSED MINDED"....."JEALOUS"...."YOU ARE PLAYING THE VICTIM ROLE BECAUSE YOU DON'T GET IT".

4) You can spend one normal minute with them and think everything is okay then the next they have these bad VIBES about you that make them second guess why you are together and you are the single source of CONTENTION in their life.

5) Any conversation will eventually lead to GREAT LIFE in one way or another..from "Don't say anything negative about it"...to it could be them trying to now analyze you with set up questions and playing the trainer with you " Can you ever remember being angry at your dad? How did that make you feel?" or just non stop phone conversations in your presnece about GREAT LIFE to friends. You will hear the same stories over and over as this is their sales pitch! They are given these feel good stories to walk away with and pass on to new recruits.

6) This forum is like HOLY WATER TO A VAMPIRE for them. They will accuse you of taking the words of internet strangers over theirs and thats how they start letting go of the relationship. Even though there is 11 years of complaints on here from former grads and trainers it holds no water! (No pun intended)

7) They were prepped on how to deal with negative feedback on this thru their training but they will still seek out their ANGEL if you stump them with a counter question. Their ANGEL has been thru at least 3 of the trainings and is well stocked full of counter answers.

8) You are now not just up against your husband but his new FAMILY as well if you want to get him back. The minute he feels confused it's straight to the phone to get in contact with either his ANGEL or buddy!

9) They use music to set the tones and these songs will trigger intense feelings for many years to come if they got sucked in!

10) The best trick of all the trainer ,staff group or ANGEL will use is this and it's GOLDEN...GENUIS REALLY!!!!!!!!!

If you ask your husband to test the group or his ANGEL about leaving just to see what they will say or do...they will tell him "I am just glad you went and
it doesn't change anything between us...we will always be friends!"

THIS IS THE MOST MANUPILATIVE METHOD YET CAUSE IT NOW SHOWS THEM "THEY" DO HAVE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE FOR THEM AND THAT MAKES THEM WANT TO STAY NOW MORE THAN EVER!!!!!! YOU BY SUGGESTING THIS HAVE JUST PROVEN YOURSELF UNLOVING AND UNSUPPORTAIVE AND YOUR OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!

11) PART 2 and PART 3 are suppsossed to be way more intense and draining so if he signed up.....it's gonna get worse!

12) TRAINEES WILL QUICKLY GET ANRGY AT ANY CHALLENGE OF THE TRAINGingS GAMES OR TECHNIQUES OR EVEN THE VALIDITY OF THE TRAINER HIMSELF!

13) He will tell you he is not allowed to make any life changes for at least 30 to 60 days. BUt keep in mind he wasn't controlled at all. He was just TOLD what he could or couldn't do for the next 30 to 60 days. (Logic has no place in his mind anymore)

14) Brett the trainer actually said "Imagine if we told people you are gonna cry and scream and beat on chairs...How do you sell that?" SELL is the key word!!!!

15) Your husband if sucked in will walk away feeling he didn't pay enough for his training...like it was so amazing he would have gladly paid more.

MY FINAL THOUGHTS:

1) IF IT IS ABOUT UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND THE TRAINERS AREN'T PAID.......THEN WHY DO YOU HAVE TO PAY TO BE TRAINED?????
DID MOSES CHARGE FOR HIS READINGS OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? DID JESUS CHARGE TO HEAL THE BLIND?

2) THE MORE LOGIC AND AWARNESS YOU THROW AT THEM THE FURTHER AWAY YOU DRIVE THEM...RIGHT BACK INTO THE WAITING CHANTING GROUPS ARMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3) CATCH 22 OF THIS WHOLE THING IS IF YOU DO NOTHING AND THINK IT WILL PASS IT GETS WORSE!!!! THEY HAVE CONFERENCE CALLAS AND TEXT MESSAGES AND EMAILS AS WELL AS REUINIONS AND MORE TRAINING TO KEEP THEM CONNECTED FULL TIME!!!!!

4) THEY AREN'T SUPPOSSED TO MAKE ANY LIFE CHANGING DESCIONS FOR 30 TO 60 DAYS BUT THEY ARE ASKED TO SIGN UP FOR MORE CLASSES BEFORE THEY LEAVE THE FIRST ONE!!!!!! HUGE RED FLAG!!!!!!!!! NEXT CLASS IS USALLY WITHIN 10 DAYS AFTER GRADUATION.....ENOUGH TIME TO GO OUT AND RECRUIT BUT STILL STAY NUMB TO LOGIC!!!!!!!!!!


GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR HUSBAND....I WISH I HAD SOME SORT OF ANSWERS FOR YOU BUT I AM IN THE SAME BOAT!!!!!

Scaredwife,

Your post certainly deserves widest exposier. I have quoted it on the Impact Trainings thread. The distressing changes in your husband are probably more acute than chronic. Sooner or later all processed people learn that LGAT training does not live up to its promises.

Dont mention Rick Ross or the website. Those names are like holy water thrown upon a vampire.

If the subject of Rick Ross's message board comes up, a standard way many groups use is to refer to us as the Rick Ross anti-cult cult.

Rick does not keep his work a secret. No one arrives at this website unless they have chosen to do so.

And RR.com does not invade other peoples websites with pop up adds, nor do we prosyltize.

And...registration for the message board is free. And...this message board has been up and running for NINE YEARS and registration is still free.

If you dont like anything here, you can log off, walk away, and no one will dispute your right to do.

What we dont permit are trolls. And we have had a lot of trolls, precisely because this site is a protected sanctuary where people can say things they have experienced and that they either do not like or are worried about, concerning a specific group or guru.

So thats another deflector shield many groups are learning to use--calling us the Rick Rossers or the Rick Ross Anti Cult Cult.

In a way, maybe this is a a back handed compliment.

The thing that scares me the most about GREAT LIFE is that they have programmed that artifical HIGH all the trainees experience on cue!


How else do you make 50 people in a room with 50 different problems all feel the exact same way at the exact same time?
Everyone walking around holding up 4 fingers begging for hugs?

If you are a sane rational person you would have to question how genuine a premanufactured HIGH really is. Or I would at least hope so.

This is a brief rundown of chemicaly what is happen in the brain during a 4 day great life session

While not identical, most LGATs follow the following basic process:

1. Spend the first 80% of the training convincing participants that they are worthless "assholes"
2. Put the participants through numerous exercises and create an environment where participants feel inadequate, highly stressed and guilty
3. Pepper the stress with relaxation techniques before inducing stress again
4. Push this to a climax (breaking point / "breakthrough")
5. Deprive participants of sleep and create mental exhaustion by giving few breaks, having very long hours and giving home work on top of this
6. Spend the last 20% of the training telling participants that they have "graduated" and that they are now wonderful. Lots of hugging, dancing, affirmation

What these trainings are doing is simply creating stress and a sense of no self-worth while depriving people of sleep. By applying and removing stress the courses condition DOPAMINE production to remain at higher and higher levels (much like adrenaline kicks in quickly, but takes a while to calm down.) As the training ends the stressor is removed and replaced with affirmation - participants are now producing dopamine but are not using it and their synaptic clefts are flooded with dopamine, in much the same way as taking cocaine causes flooding of the synaptic cleft.

Conveniently the follow up workshop is two days later - at this stage not only will most peoples' dopamine production still be up, but they will have had the chance to sleep and so the dopamine produced for staying awake will also flood the synaptic cleft. Excessive spending and generosity (who remembers either offering (or being offered) to pay for someone else's course - someone you'd met four days earlier?) are common symptoms of hypomania so for LGATs it's nice to get a group of people together - who are feeling a euphoria that they don't understand - and ask them to buy something. This is why you have to buy the next course NOW - the longer the delay, the greater the chance that the high (and impulsivity) will have worn off.

TO BE VERY CLEAR STRESS AND SLEEP DEPRIVATION BOOST DOPAMINE LEVELS BEYOND NORMAL AND, ACCORDING TO THE DOPAMINE HYPOTHESIS FOR BIPOLAR DISORDER, BEYOND NORMAL DOPAMINE LEVELS ARE WHAT CAUSE MANIC AND HYPO-MANIC SYMPTOMS. THE BEHAVIOUR, AND DESCRIBED FEELINGS, OF LGAT PARTICIPANTS READ EXACTLY LIKE HYPOMANIC / MANIC SYMPTOMS.

This is not rocket science – it is easy enough for any person to understand.

scared wife,

It's been a month, have things gotten any better? This probably isn't the forum to learn how to "Support" as it's purpose is primarily to vent and express concerns. There's actually some great information on here albeit pretty one sided. I've had several friends and a business partner go through Great Life. It seemed weird to me at first as well, but I've noticed some pretty cool changes since they attended. My business partner is much more accountable and we seem to get along a lot better. I suggest asking them questions about what they are learning, or what they want to work on. That seems to be the lingo they use. I'm not sure that the way they get there is as important as whether or not they change for the positive. You probably won't lose your husband. Many of those who post on these threads haven't been throught the groups they post about and are guessing about what is really happening. They do describe the processes that occur fairly well on this site though. I wouldn't worry so much about how he's learning and just focus on what he wants to be better and how he plans on getting there. Not sure if this helps or not, but I can see how a spouse could be scared by such fast changes and intense committment to a process you don't understand.

Scared wife:

Large group awareness training (LGAT) has a deeply troubled history of complaints, litigation regarding personal injuries and bad press.

The most prominent LGAT is Landmark Education.

See [www.culteducation.com]

You might find this research paper done by a psychologist who attended an LGAT helpful.

See [www.culteducation.com]

He notes 13 liabilities evident in most LGATs.

1. They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.

2. They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.

3. They lack clearly defined responsibility.

4. They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.

5. They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.

6. They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.

7. They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.

8. They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.

9. They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.

10. They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.

11. They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.

12. They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.

13. They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions.

He also points out four danger signs.

1. Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change.

2. Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to create or force a breakthrough in every participant.

3. Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that was the one single pathway to salvation.

4. Leaders were true believers and sealed their doctrine off from discomforting data or disquieting results and tended to discount a poor result by, "blaming the victim."

Typically apologists for LGATs will attempt to discredit criticism by either dismissing people that have not done the LGAT as uninformed, or if they have done the LGAT and are dissatisfied dismissed that criticism as someone who was "uncoachable" or some other thought terminating label.

LGATs frequently use coercive persuasion techniques.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This research paper by a sociologist explains how such techniques are employed.

They rely upon four factors.

1. The reliance on intense interpersonal and psychological attack to destabilize an individual's sense of self to promote compliance

2. The use of an organized peer group

3. Applying interpersonal pressure to promote conformity

4. The manipulation of the totality of the person's social environment to stabilize behavior once modified

I am sorry to learn of your husband's involvement in an LGAT.

I would not recommend an LGAT to anyone for anything, given the history and problems they represent.

See [www.culteducation.com]

You might find some these coping strategies used in dealing with cult members helpful.

Most LGATs would not fit the criteria that defines a cult, but are often "cult-like" in their dynamics, concerning the recruitment and retention of members.

I hope this is helpful.