Thanks for the replies. :) It is a reassurance to know there is a forum here for information. I'm planning on dealing with these family members with kid gloves on. I don't plan on any confrontational conversations about their "training" until I feel it would help the situation. I'm hoping they come back to reality on their own.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to inform other possible recruits and other family members about what I know? I want to give them the information and see what they think but am worried that it will get back to my LGAT family members. Thanks...

Be very careful when talking to your friends and family members, what you consider non confrontational can to them seem extreemly confrontational.

Although I have never been involved in impact, I can say that with in Landmark (and I would assume that this runs true for impact) particpants are coached so fully that anything even slighty anti landmark or anti personal growth or the like is taken as confrontational.

To a degree even letting them know you are concerned can work against you but on the other hand once they can see "the truth" themselves they will appreciate that you saw it for what it was and told them so.. a catch 22 really

Good luck with your friends and family

I have actually attended all the trainings at Impact (some five years ago, but I am still involved to a minimal degree) and know what you're talking about. When people initially finish the training, they're riding on an emotional high and often seem like irrational 'born agains' in that they believe EVERYONE in the world should do the training. Of course, this is not the case, and I think that most graduates of Impact come to acknowledge this. During the third level of the training, there is indeed a big emphasis on enrolling people into the training, which serves both financial (keeps the training running) and personal (assists the trainee to put into action the leadership and empowerment tools they've been garnering throughout the course of their own training) purposes.

I tried desperately to get my own family to do the training five years ago, but have come to realize that they are own their own unique journey in life, and Impact doesn't have to be a part of that. Fortunately, unlike many major religions, Impact DOES NOT suggest to its trainees that NOT doing the training will lead to an individual being lost or suffering eternal damnation.

As far as spousal relationships go, I find that it has been best with both my partner and myself as graduates. As one could imagine, with involvement in any organization, when both partners are involved, there is a higher likelihood that they will both 'be on the same page' philosophically and in lifestyle.

One final note: the training is supposed to be a lifelong process, and often, new graduates are very diehard in their approach to learning lessons from life and instituting life-changing decisions. Impact does not support this, and asks the trainees to commit to not make any serious life changes (occupational, spousal, etc.) for, I believe, at least thirty days after the completion of the training. After this period, the initial feelings should have worn off and been replaced by a deeper wisdom that life is life, and that there are some things just left well enough alone.

I agree with an earlier post that if you simply allow them to make their pleas for you to enroll, they will eventually stop. If you feel like there's something for you at Impact, then, by all means, go. But Impact is not supposed to be something about force, and know that your family member's desire to see you all go is founded in love. They have seen the deep connection that they can share with seeming strangers through the course of their training, and now they wish to have that same connection with their partner, family, and friends. Perhaps they will realize that they can achieve this without having everyone they know go through the training, perhaps not, but at the core of the training is the idea that it is up to each of us as individuals to change the world, with or without Impact.

Best of luck to you!

There are basic problems in any mass marathon training such as Impact, Landmark Education or Lifespring.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Such programs have a long and troubled history of complaints, lawsuits, bad press and some have been linked to deaths and mental breakdowns requiring hospitalization.

These programs are potentially unsafe.

There are many safer alternatives where people are better protected. Such alternatives are administered by trained/licensed professionals that are accountable, such as marriage and family counseling, therapy from a clinical psychologist, a support group facilitated by a professional through a social service agency and continuing education at a community college or university program.

It is not necessary to take the risks involved in mass marathon training.

Of course groups like Impact, Landmark and Sterling are for-private privately owned companies. They are in business to make money, so there is pressure regarding enrollment and recruitment.

Many of the alternatives to such unlicensed and essentially unaccountable enterprises are nonprofit institutions or community services where such pressure to turn a profit for private owners does not exist.

Impact is a direct spinoff from Lifespring. This link:

[perso.wanadoo.fr]

Gives a good breakdown of who spawned from who. I couldn't get it to come up for me this morning, but the Guestbook on the awareness page has contained an ongoing battle of sorts between Impact grads and Harmony grads (they split from each other a few years back). There are some really creepy stories flying back and forth between these people about the owners of Impact, Hans and Sally Berger. From the looks of things, they have set themselves up to be "chosen ones" of a sort. They have also been accused of stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from their trainees. Its all pretty sorid, and worth the read if you have family members involved in Impact.

I appreciate all of the replies and I'm continuing to educate myself. As I wrote in a previous reply I've taken the approach of a supportive family member when dealing with these new LGAT "junkies". I have NOT outed myself in terms of how much I know, in fear of alienation. I've also delicately approached another possible recruit saying they saying at the most they should do a little research. However one of the LGAT graduate family member is very charismatic and people have always tended to be very influenced by his/her leadership. As with any family there is disfunction and any chance to solve a problem is met with the answer of "Impact Training will really help out, look what it did for me". What they don't realize is that there are so many more problems now that LGAT's have taken over any rational decision making.

I feel that I want to take the next step with these possible recruits and bring to light what I really know as I can't bear seeing more damage done. I know it's a catch-22 but I feel the need to do something. If I don't, there could be another 2 or 3 family members recruited within the next month. I know there is not an easy solution but does anyone have a recommentations in terms of how much should I start telling others what I know? Thank you...

If the group has been in existence for any length of time in your area, there are bound to be alienated and disaffected former members. If you can find any, they are a good source of information and may be willing to help you. Usually, once people have gotten through and gotten out of a cult, they are eager to "rescue" others. And they know where the secret "keys" are hidden, i.e., what questions to ask and how to respond to the cult defenses. Be prepared for a long wait, however. Cult involvements, for those deeply indoctrinated, can last years - like a love affair, or an addiction. They know how to target those parts of the brain

Read an early edition of "Snapping; America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change," by Conway and Siegelman.


Ellen

[quote="amrosie"...... During the third level of the training, there is indeed a big emphasis on enrolling people into the training, which serves both financial (keeps the training running) and personal (assists the trainee to put into action the leadership and empowerment tools they've been garnering throughout the course of their own training) purposes.]




--(No.....not "assists," but "compells" the "trainee" - the one "trained," as you would train a dog - not "leadership and empowerment tools," rather "emotional coercion, domination, and manipulation tactics," they've been, not "garnering," but "covertly inlfluenced and persuaded into accepting" in the course of their own "indoctrination," not "training.")



[I tried desperately to get my own family to do the training five years ago, but have come to realize that they are own their own unique journey in life, and Impact doesn't have to be a part of that. Fortunately, unlike many major religions, Impact DOES NOT suggest to its trainees that NOT doing the training will lead to an individual being lost or suffering eternal damnation.]



--Desperately? Sounds kind of scary. And pathetic.

And just because they don't use the words "lost" or "damned," doesn't mean they don't get the same sort of idea across.




[As far as spousal relationships go, I find that it has been best with both my partner and myself as graduates. As one could imagine, with involvement in any organization, when both partners are involved, there is a higher likelihood that they will both 'be on the same page' philosophically and in lifestyle.]


--Yes, not as likely to want to "deprogram" one another, at least initially.



[One final note: the training is supposed to be a lifelong process]


--Yikes!


[.... and often, new graduates are very diehard in their approach to learning lessons from life and instituting life-changing decisions. Impact does not support this, and asks the trainees to commit to not make any serious life changes (occupational, spousal, etc.) for, I believe, at least thirty days]


--Thirty days! You can't be serious.


[.... after the completion of the training. After this period, the initial feelings should have worn off and been replaced by a deeper wisdom that life is life,]


--Huh? "Life is life" constitutes "deeper wisdom?"


[and that there are some things just left well enough alone.]


--And you paid (?) how much for this "deeper wisdom?"



[I agree with an earlier post that if you simply allow them to make their pleas for you to enroll, they will eventually stop. If you feel like there's something for you at Impact, then, by all means, go. But Impact is not supposed to be something about force, and know that your family member's desire to see you all go is founded in love.]



--No it's not. It's founded in cult recruitment of others as a means to personal "salvation," "deliverance," or "transformation."



[They have seen the deep connection that they can share with seeming strangers through the course of their training, and now they wish to have that same connection with their partner, family, and friends.]



--No, they have seen an artifical and contrived "connection" designed by professional manipulators and hucksters to create false intimacy for recruitment and retention purposes.


[Perhaps they will realize that they can achieve this without having everyone they know go through the training, perhaps not, but at the core of the training is the idea that it is up to each of us as individuals to change the world, with or without Impact.

Best of luck to you!]



--Well, yes, the "love-bombing," rah-rah, high energy, focused attention, camraderie, and "learned optimisism" can be intoxicating for lots of people. But after and underneath that is a "core" change, that is, in exchange for all the feel-good aspects of participation, one has unwittingly given over "permission" to have his or her beliefs altered. These beliefs are such deeply held convictions and conjectures as those that concern how the world works and how other people behave. They are impressions, most coming from very early childhood, that have cohered or solidified into basic personality and character traits. Do you imagine people should be lured into this "deal" without knowing about the tactics that will be used on them? Do you think it is moral or ethical to sneak or worm your way into the innermost parts of another's mind without a full disclosure that that is what you are doing? What cults and LGATs do is more closedly related to religious conversion than to propaganda, though they are both in the same business - changing people's minds covertly to benefit mainly the leaders and owners.


Ellen

Thanks Ellen, so how do I start telling potential recruits who are friends and family members about the dangers? Should I just say "do some heavy investigating before you attend" or do I start spilling the beans and tell them everything I know? It seems that the people susceptable to LGAT recruitment are beyond logic and reason. They are looking for that emotional high.

I know the risk is great either way but my concious is screaming do something! Thanks...

If they haven't already gotten involved you might tell them that Impact is considered to be "cult-like" for the same reasons Lifespring, Landmark, and all the others are; that they are emotional/intellectual/spiritual "con-games" and use the same tactics, tricks, and deceptions to lure people in, arouse their curiosity and optimism about the future, and keep them coming back, once they've gotten involved. They start off by pandering to people's egos and preying on their hopes, and then use fear tactics once they've gotten their hooks in. You might tell them there is hypnosis involved, though they use different names like "processing" or something similar. You might tell them that some of the methods and material are originally from scientology and the Unity Schools of Christianity in the 1950s and '60s. If they express some curiosity and are not defensive, you might have a chance at short-circuiting the proselytizing, though the truth is not nearly as dazzling or intoxicating as the fabrications and illusions the cults offer. Imagine trying to talk a Jehovah's Witness, a Mormon, or a Christian Scientist out of their belief. Now you know what you're up against - minds "snapped" tightly shut. Some people will just have to endure a long, painful, and frightening course before their curiosity and/or doubt comes back to life - if it ever does.

Good luck,

Ellen