Gratitude Training - Beware
Posted by:
jaded to the core
()
Date: May 31, 2011 11:14PM
There is a new LGAT on the scene and it goes by the name of Gratitude Training. Unbeknownst to me, I signed up for the training based on a "friend's" recommendation. I actually learned a lot from the first part of the training, but took it with a grain of salt. The teachings are actually pretty useful and relevant to an extent. The part that I take issue with is the people who are qualified as "trainers" running the training. These people have no qualifications, which is not to say that they can't offer anything, but the zealotry that they preach with is tough to take. Also, they do not take no for an answer, which will end up biting them in the long run.
I tried to stay out of the long term training, repeatedly saying no to the staff. I was clear that the gratitude training was not for me long term. However, these groups are quite incestuous, so if you say no the trainers or staff, with whom you have no prior experience, they will tell your friend (the person who enrolled you) and get them to try to manipulate your decision. This is exactly what happened to me. I have since moved on from the Gratitude Training, but not after having gone to places I did not want to go. Feeling used and manipulated by the group is a pretty bad feeling, especially knowing that they repeatedly take advantage of people's vulnerability. Having been in the training long enough, they brag about enrollment rates and how many people stay with the training from phase to phase. This is completely disgusting because they do not look at the individual's situation, but think that their method is right for all, which it is clearly not. These people are leaches and prey on innocent people, and will never look in the mirror to admit it.
Of course, trying to tell this to them is 100% useless. They can't see the damage that they are doing in people's lives, because they are drunk on the kool-aid. They think their training is the best thing since sliced bread. When they end up reading this, they will instantly dismiss it because it threatens their whole existence. Without the training, their lives would have no meaning, which is really sad, but when they elevate themselves above others, they need to be brought back down to reality. They are not changing the world, but they sure make it out to seem like it during the trainings with emotional music and love bombing. They do a great job of hooking people in at their weakest point, and not letting them go.
All I hope is that people will do their homework before entering a group like this and do not fall for the altered states that friends or family might be under when recruiting new members. These states pass, and most all will have fallen out with this group after the ecstasy fades. These groups remind me of multi level marketing, but for the spiritual marketplace. There are only a couple of people who do well in the group and they feed off of the work of others, but "empower" others to believe differently.
I tried to stay out of the long term training, repeatedly saying no to the staff. I was clear that the gratitude training was not for me long term. However, these groups are quite incestuous, so if you say no the trainers or staff, with whom you have no prior experience, they will tell your friend (the person who enrolled you) and get them to try to manipulate your decision. This is exactly what happened to me. I have since moved on from the Gratitude Training, but not after having gone to places I did not want to go. Feeling used and manipulated by the group is a pretty bad feeling, especially knowing that they repeatedly take advantage of people's vulnerability. Having been in the training long enough, they brag about enrollment rates and how many people stay with the training from phase to phase. This is completely disgusting because they do not look at the individual's situation, but think that their method is right for all, which it is clearly not. These people are leaches and prey on innocent people, and will never look in the mirror to admit it.
Of course, trying to tell this to them is 100% useless. They can't see the damage that they are doing in people's lives, because they are drunk on the kool-aid. They think their training is the best thing since sliced bread. When they end up reading this, they will instantly dismiss it because it threatens their whole existence. Without the training, their lives would have no meaning, which is really sad, but when they elevate themselves above others, they need to be brought back down to reality. They are not changing the world, but they sure make it out to seem like it during the trainings with emotional music and love bombing. They do a great job of hooking people in at their weakest point, and not letting them go.
All I hope is that people will do their homework before entering a group like this and do not fall for the altered states that friends or family might be under when recruiting new members. These states pass, and most all will have fallen out with this group after the ecstasy fades. These groups remind me of multi level marketing, but for the spiritual marketplace. There are only a couple of people who do well in the group and they feed off of the work of others, but "empower" others to believe differently.
Re: Gratitude Training - Beware
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 02, 2011 11:14PM
Advice for anyone who is urged to attend a workshop of ANY kind
Breaks should be every 90 minutes. Period. I was told that humans naturally zone out every 90 to 120 minutes and lose critical thinking. If this is a true learning environment and not indoctrination, you should get breaks every 90 minutes.
You should not be given so much homework that it cuts into the amount of sleep you need. Running on a sleep deficit wears down critical faculties. Its been found that sleep deprived people are as impaired as persons who have had a couple of drinks of alcoholic beverage. Dont change your life or attitudes if you are in this state.
Before you go, examine the paperwork.
Tell them to send you the paperwork you will have to sign as a condition of participating. This can be sent online via snail mail or a pdf file.
What you want to know before you send payment is whether you will have to to sign paperwork in which you relinquish any right to sue or mediate for damages in case you are harmed during one of their workshops.
If they expect YOU to take responsiblity for your life, any program (not only the one discussed here, but any program) should take responsiblity for its own life transforming potential by acknowledging there are possible risks.
Physicians and licensed therapists do not require patients or clients to sign away rights to sue or mediate for damages in case of harm. They take responsibility for thier power.
If workshop organizers wont let you see this paperwork until the event and dont give you plenty of time to read it before signing it, get away, even if you have to drive home 200 miles.
Now...this advice goes for any human potential event, period. Some are great, some are not so great. YOu want to know when to recognize the risks are not worth it and how to get away, if something rubs you the wrong way.
These events are pre planned by the organizers, yet they will tell you to be spontaneous and unplanned. Uh Uh.
Someone may read this and say 'Oh, you are so negative and paranoid. Why not be open?'
The question is---open to WHAT?'
Here's the thing. These things are adventures.
People who take adventures in the great outdoors always plan for a possible emergency. People engaged in rock climbing, camping, hiking, take care to bring maps, carry rain gear, water purifyier tablets and food. They will also leave word with friends and families about where they go, and what route they plan to take and when they plan to come back.
THat way, if they fall and break a leg and dont come home on schedule, someone will have the information needed to inform the Search and Rescue unit that covers the area.
This pre-planning is not paranoia. It is realism and respects that all true adventure includes the unknown and risk.
Well, we need to know how to prepare for social/pschological adventures.
The folks who run these programs plan the event and the environment very carefully.
THose of us whom they want to attend as new members--we need to plan too.
So that if we see that a storm is brewing we have our own means of transportation and can go home.
And if someone says, 'But you have not experienced this, how dare you pass judgement'
I would reply 'Experiences can be misleading. There are some kinds of experiences I *know* I can do without.'
And valuing heart and experience at expense of the mind is not a divine truth. And it is not a stance that transcends and includes all else.
Romanticism exists only among those who dont have to worry where their next meal or set of meals, come from.
Instead it expresses a bias that is not transcendental, but originateds in a particular belief system--in this case, Romanticism. Romanticism, a Western belief system and set of attitudes, arose from the middle and upper middle classes starting in the mid-18th Century. Much of what we think we know about "transformation" "shamanism", buddhism, and other Asian religions has been biased and filtered through Western Romanticism, which priviliges experience and heart and self expression.
Now, here are nuts and bolts ways to prepare for a promised transformational adventure--you know, just like the wilderness people do, when to turn around and go back.
10) Watch for the hype factor. If people seem childishly invested in the marvellous personality and public persona of a leader, even if its someone who is a social justice activist--be careful.
11) If that person keeps telling certain Big Stories again and again, and the crowd just eats it up--watch out. If people get hysterical and accuse you of cynicism, of being a hater, or of being an atheist if you question the glorious personality, the story, the achievements of the Great Person--watch out.
Other precautions
Precautions for Attending MultiDay Events (not just the one discussed here)
Only only go to an event, especially a multiday event, in your taxi, bus or car. Never surrender your car keys or cell phone. If you need coffee to function, bring caffiene tablets and some protein powder in case they try to stick you on a low protein no-caffiene diet. A few energy bars up the sleeve are always good.
Next, despite this being scorned as selfish and un Green, dont have anyone carpool with you. Why? Because if you decide you want to leave, if you have buddies who rely on you for transportation and they want to stay, you'll be stranded. Let them do their own thing, just leave.
If you want to leave and they say others want to leave, and can you give them a lift, refuse, even if you look like a selfish person. They may be trying to delay your departure.
Wait until you are at home before negotiating your refund or prorate. Dont try to get your money back at the event. Just get home to your familiar surrounds first.
====
Ask (loudly)whether there will be breaks and how often they will arrange breaks.
Demand to know how late in the evening the event will be. They preplanned it and they should be able to give a specific answer.
Dont disclose too much personal information on forms. Find out if if they are taking precautions about confidentiality. You dont have to tell total strangers what you do for a living. Thats between you and the tax revenue department. You dont know who handles the data at their office. What if someone splits and decides to swipe a list of names and sell it?
Ask if you are going to sharing intimate painful material from your life during the event. Ask also whether you will be filmed or recorded or if anyone will be taking notes. If they are evasive or try to put you on the defensive ('Why are you being so negative?') get out
If the room is blocked out not letting in sunshine no clocks, if the chairs are situated inches apart and they clean up after you and re arrange the chairs after every single break--its a controlled environment. Leave.
Breaks should be every 90 minutes. Period. I was told that humans naturally zone out every 90 to 120 minutes and lose critical thinking. If this is a true learning environment and not indoctrination, you should get breaks every 90 minutes.
You should not be given so much homework that it cuts into the amount of sleep you need. Running on a sleep deficit wears down critical faculties. Its been found that sleep deprived people are as impaired as persons who have had a couple of drinks of alcoholic beverage. Dont change your life or attitudes if you are in this state.
Before you go, examine the paperwork.
Tell them to send you the paperwork you will have to sign as a condition of participating. This can be sent online via snail mail or a pdf file.
What you want to know before you send payment is whether you will have to to sign paperwork in which you relinquish any right to sue or mediate for damages in case you are harmed during one of their workshops.
If they expect YOU to take responsiblity for your life, any program (not only the one discussed here, but any program) should take responsiblity for its own life transforming potential by acknowledging there are possible risks.
Physicians and licensed therapists do not require patients or clients to sign away rights to sue or mediate for damages in case of harm. They take responsibility for thier power.
If workshop organizers wont let you see this paperwork until the event and dont give you plenty of time to read it before signing it, get away, even if you have to drive home 200 miles.
Now...this advice goes for any human potential event, period. Some are great, some are not so great. YOu want to know when to recognize the risks are not worth it and how to get away, if something rubs you the wrong way.
These events are pre planned by the organizers, yet they will tell you to be spontaneous and unplanned. Uh Uh.
Someone may read this and say 'Oh, you are so negative and paranoid. Why not be open?'
The question is---open to WHAT?'
Here's the thing. These things are adventures.
People who take adventures in the great outdoors always plan for a possible emergency. People engaged in rock climbing, camping, hiking, take care to bring maps, carry rain gear, water purifyier tablets and food. They will also leave word with friends and families about where they go, and what route they plan to take and when they plan to come back.
THat way, if they fall and break a leg and dont come home on schedule, someone will have the information needed to inform the Search and Rescue unit that covers the area.
This pre-planning is not paranoia. It is realism and respects that all true adventure includes the unknown and risk.
Well, we need to know how to prepare for social/pschological adventures.
The folks who run these programs plan the event and the environment very carefully.
THose of us whom they want to attend as new members--we need to plan too.
So that if we see that a storm is brewing we have our own means of transportation and can go home.
And if someone says, 'But you have not experienced this, how dare you pass judgement'
I would reply 'Experiences can be misleading. There are some kinds of experiences I *know* I can do without.'
And valuing heart and experience at expense of the mind is not a divine truth. And it is not a stance that transcends and includes all else.
Romanticism exists only among those who dont have to worry where their next meal or set of meals, come from.
Instead it expresses a bias that is not transcendental, but originateds in a particular belief system--in this case, Romanticism. Romanticism, a Western belief system and set of attitudes, arose from the middle and upper middle classes starting in the mid-18th Century. Much of what we think we know about "transformation" "shamanism", buddhism, and other Asian religions has been biased and filtered through Western Romanticism, which priviliges experience and heart and self expression.
Now, here are nuts and bolts ways to prepare for a promised transformational adventure--you know, just like the wilderness people do, when to turn around and go back.
10) Watch for the hype factor. If people seem childishly invested in the marvellous personality and public persona of a leader, even if its someone who is a social justice activist--be careful.
11) If that person keeps telling certain Big Stories again and again, and the crowd just eats it up--watch out. If people get hysterical and accuse you of cynicism, of being a hater, or of being an atheist if you question the glorious personality, the story, the achievements of the Great Person--watch out.
Other precautions
Precautions for Attending MultiDay Events (not just the one discussed here)
Only only go to an event, especially a multiday event, in your taxi, bus or car. Never surrender your car keys or cell phone. If you need coffee to function, bring caffiene tablets and some protein powder in case they try to stick you on a low protein no-caffiene diet. A few energy bars up the sleeve are always good.
Next, despite this being scorned as selfish and un Green, dont have anyone carpool with you. Why? Because if you decide you want to leave, if you have buddies who rely on you for transportation and they want to stay, you'll be stranded. Let them do their own thing, just leave.
If you want to leave and they say others want to leave, and can you give them a lift, refuse, even if you look like a selfish person. They may be trying to delay your departure.
Wait until you are at home before negotiating your refund or prorate. Dont try to get your money back at the event. Just get home to your familiar surrounds first.
====
Ask (loudly)whether there will be breaks and how often they will arrange breaks.
Demand to know how late in the evening the event will be. They preplanned it and they should be able to give a specific answer.
Dont disclose too much personal information on forms. Find out if if they are taking precautions about confidentiality. You dont have to tell total strangers what you do for a living. Thats between you and the tax revenue department. You dont know who handles the data at their office. What if someone splits and decides to swipe a list of names and sell it?
Ask if you are going to sharing intimate painful material from your life during the event. Ask also whether you will be filmed or recorded or if anyone will be taking notes. If they are evasive or try to put you on the defensive ('Why are you being so negative?') get out
If the room is blocked out not letting in sunshine no clocks, if the chairs are situated inches apart and they clean up after you and re arrange the chairs after every single break--its a controlled environment. Leave.
Re: Gratitude Training - Beware
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 03, 2011 04:38AM
Feeling ecstatic is temporary. Its fun while it lasts, but it does not prove anything to be true.
And feeling high is temporary.
It is unsustainable.
Why?
Because the more ecstatic you feel, the more effort is needed, to get you high and then maintain that high. Its true whether its induced from social engineering (the group) or from taking doses of some sort of drug or heavy exercise.
All this causes heavy release of neurotransmitters.
Eventually, neurotransmitter depots become depleted. And, folks, that is when you come.....dowwnnnn.
You either return to your normal baseline or you feel as depressed or more depressed than when you started off.
Thats the point where the trainers will claim you just need to do the method more, and take yet another workshop.
A dope dealer will just offer to sell you more happy powder or pills.
Now people are gonna say, 'Well that is not my experience."
Experiences can be manipulated.
Two even a vivid experience can be misleading.
I once ran fevers between 101 to 104F. I felt as though I was freezing to death.
But my thermometer measured at 101=104 f.
I learned that in high fevers, the immune system is triggering release of cytokine chemicals and these mess with tempreture regulating centers in the brain, and you feel cold when you are actually fever hot.
And many drunks insist they are safe to drive a car--thats their experience.
But they cant walk straight lines when the police pull 'em over.
And feeling high is temporary.
It is unsustainable.
Why?
Because the more ecstatic you feel, the more effort is needed, to get you high and then maintain that high. Its true whether its induced from social engineering (the group) or from taking doses of some sort of drug or heavy exercise.
All this causes heavy release of neurotransmitters.
Eventually, neurotransmitter depots become depleted. And, folks, that is when you come.....dowwnnnn.
You either return to your normal baseline or you feel as depressed or more depressed than when you started off.
Thats the point where the trainers will claim you just need to do the method more, and take yet another workshop.
A dope dealer will just offer to sell you more happy powder or pills.
Now people are gonna say, 'Well that is not my experience."
Experiences can be manipulated.
Two even a vivid experience can be misleading.
I once ran fevers between 101 to 104F. I felt as though I was freezing to death.
But my thermometer measured at 101=104 f.
I learned that in high fevers, the immune system is triggering release of cytokine chemicals and these mess with tempreture regulating centers in the brain, and you feel cold when you are actually fever hot.
And many drunks insist they are safe to drive a car--thats their experience.
But they cant walk straight lines when the police pull 'em over.
Re: Gratitude Training - Beware
Posted by:
JohnHammond999
()
Date: March 06, 2015 01:46AM
The newest LGAT on the block or cult is "Gratitude Training" The training is led by Ray Blanchard, the company owned by a fanatic Jo Englesson and trainer groupies like Liliana Barr. This company is hungry to expand to takeover and spread stuff. People become clones. Honestly, my alarm bells started going off the moment I walked into the room. Several control/power plays were established right off the bat. I walked out after 3 1/2 hours of a lecturing and 3 trainers followed me out. I told them that I didn't like being manipulated that this was not a spiritual retreat, etc... They talked in circles until I announced I had to use the restroom. I then creeped out of the restroom only to be spotted and followed again. I called a friend quickly on my cell and ignored them. After about 5 minutes they left and my ride showed up. It was very creepy so, I started researching them and they are Like Lifesrping.
Luckily I didn't pay for the first session! They apparently give scholarships to reach out to more people. If you end up paying they will give you your money back but only if you attend level one and two completely. So, they have time to hook you.
They give you the first one for free to sope you in. Now they are expanding to Chalotte Gratitude. First one free again.
Luckily I didn't pay for the first session! They apparently give scholarships to reach out to more people. If you end up paying they will give you your money back but only if you attend level one and two completely. So, they have time to hook you.
They give you the first one for free to sope you in. Now they are expanding to Chalotte Gratitude. First one free again.
Some earlier posts
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 06, 2015 06:38AM
The entire culteducation dot com website is searchable.
Go to the homepage here: [www.culteducation.com]
Search slot is in upper right hand corner.
Type in the name of any person or group that interests you.
Hit the 'search' button.
[www.culteducation.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2015 06:58AM by corboy.
Go to the homepage here: [www.culteducation.com]
Search slot is in upper right hand corner.
Type in the name of any person or group that interests you.
Hit the 'search' button.
[www.culteducation.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2015 06:58AM by corboy.
Re: Gratitude Training - Beware
Posted by:
chaseb
()
Date: September 30, 2015 08:52AM
Thank you Gratitude I am grateful for all that I have created as a result of the trainings, and being part of this amazing community. Two years ago I walked into Part 1, surviving in life, yet unfulfilled. I paid my bills on time, had friends and family that loved me, and what most people would call a pretty good life. I didn't need fixing, I had what I thought I wanted in life. But I had always felt like something was missing. I yearned for more, I knew I had a purpose, something bigger, but I wasn't sure what it was yet. It seems that some people are born with a purpose a vision, and I didn't have one. I was wondering through life, until one day a friend invited me to go to Gratitude Training. I walked into that room not having felt my heart in over 20 years, you see I learned that life hurts, and it's easier to shut down than to feel all that this amazing world has to offer. I was numb. By the time I completed Part 1, I felt again, I experienced love for another and from another. During Part 2, I realized that I didn't have it all figured out, and that was ok. I was on this journey of life, and I was ready to dig in and learn as much as I could about myself, about how I contribute to the world. As a fitness coach I thought I was doing my part, helping people live better lives, but after Part 2 I saw a possibility for so much more. I hadn't yet scratched the surface of what I was capable in life. By the time I completed the Part 3 Masterful Living course, I had a new family of people to turn to for support in my downs and with whom I could celebrate in the best of times. I discover that I have the ability, no the duty to be all that I can be for others, and for myself. I learned to experience joy, I learned to overcome my fears, I learned that I can live a lasting legacy on the world simply by being me, by being who I have always been deep down. So what have a created as tangible results from the Gratitude Trainings? I decided to see the greatest in my partner even in the darkest of times, to honor our commitment to having a loving, trusting, and honest relationship, no matter what, and this year we got married! I made a choice to breakthrough my fear of failure, and trust myself, to choose to follow my heart even when the situation wasn't working. The tangible result of learning to trust again, was that I bought out my business partners this year, and turned a failing business into a thriving one. I am now the proud owner of my own fitness center, I employ a full staff, and have made the dream I had a decade ago become a reality. I shifted my conversation around money, and stopped living in resistance to my own success. I stopped sabotaging myself because I didn't believe in myself, and now I have the truck I always wanted, I have investments that will provide my family financial security and freedom, and I don't worry about money because I created the career of my dreams. I have everything I need and enough to be currently buying our first house together. So if you're looking for tangible results, proof of what the Gratitude Training is, or is not, here it is. The Gratitude Training is the method through which I discovered my purpose, my vision. The Gratitude Trainings gave me the tools to create financial freedom, to create the career I always dreamed of, to have the relationship I always wanted with the woman of my dreams. The Gratitude Training is the single most valuable and profound thing I have ever done in my life, and the best gift someone could give them self!
Re: Gratitude Training - Beware
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: September 30, 2015 09:03PM
Gratitude training appears to be yet another LGAT (large group awareness training).
Anyone considering an LGAT should investigate the deeply troubled history of such groups as EST, the Forum, Landmark Education, Lifespring, NXIVM, Mankind Project, Sterling Institute of Reltionship and others.
See [www.culteducation.com]
There have bee personal injury lawsuits, wrongful death lawsuits, ongoing complaints and bad press for such groups over the years.
LGATs typically have the same problems as what is also called "mass marathon training."
See [www.culteducation.com]
13 liabilities of encounter groups, some of which are similar to characteristics of most current mass marathon psychotherapy training sessions:
They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.
They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.
They lack clearly defined responsibility.
They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.
They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.
They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.
They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.
They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.
They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.
They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.
They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.
They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.
They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions.
The groups were determined to be dangerous when:
Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change.
Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to create or force a breakthrough in every participant.
Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that was the one single pathway to salvation.
Leaders were true believers and sealed their doctrine off from discomforting data or disquieting results and tended to discount a poor result by, "blaming the victim."
Many LGATs use coercive persuasion to gain undue influence over participants.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Given the troubled history of LGATs I would not recommend an LGAT to anyone for anything under any circumstances. There are far safer and more mainstream alternatives such as continuing education, counseling from a licensed professional, community sponsored support groups and simply talking out issues with old friends, family or a trusted mentor.
There is no objective scientifically measured evidence that LGATs accomplish anything other than influence the way people subjectively feel. No LGAT has published a peer reviewed scientific study in respected credible journal that demonstrates objective results such as higher income, lower divorce rate, decreased need for medication or counseling or higher grades for students amongst its graduates.
Instead LGATs rely upon polling the subjective feelings of past participants about the training rather than measuring objective results. No doubt LGATs can influence the way people feel. And the emotional testimonials of graduates demonstrate this.
What an LGAT does is download the philosophy of its creator as a remedy for whatever problems people may have. LGATs call this "taining" or an educational seminar, but it is more like a crusade for converts.
Anyone considering an LGAT should investigate the deeply troubled history of such groups as EST, the Forum, Landmark Education, Lifespring, NXIVM, Mankind Project, Sterling Institute of Reltionship and others.
See [www.culteducation.com]
There have bee personal injury lawsuits, wrongful death lawsuits, ongoing complaints and bad press for such groups over the years.
LGATs typically have the same problems as what is also called "mass marathon training."
See [www.culteducation.com]
13 liabilities of encounter groups, some of which are similar to characteristics of most current mass marathon psychotherapy training sessions:
They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.
They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.
They lack clearly defined responsibility.
They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.
They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.
They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.
They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.
They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.
They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.
They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.
They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.
They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.
They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions.
The groups were determined to be dangerous when:
Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change.
Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to create or force a breakthrough in every participant.
Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that was the one single pathway to salvation.
Leaders were true believers and sealed their doctrine off from discomforting data or disquieting results and tended to discount a poor result by, "blaming the victim."
Many LGATs use coercive persuasion to gain undue influence over participants.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Given the troubled history of LGATs I would not recommend an LGAT to anyone for anything under any circumstances. There are far safer and more mainstream alternatives such as continuing education, counseling from a licensed professional, community sponsored support groups and simply talking out issues with old friends, family or a trusted mentor.
There is no objective scientifically measured evidence that LGATs accomplish anything other than influence the way people subjectively feel. No LGAT has published a peer reviewed scientific study in respected credible journal that demonstrates objective results such as higher income, lower divorce rate, decreased need for medication or counseling or higher grades for students amongst its graduates.
Instead LGATs rely upon polling the subjective feelings of past participants about the training rather than measuring objective results. No doubt LGATs can influence the way people feel. And the emotional testimonials of graduates demonstrate this.
What an LGAT does is download the philosophy of its creator as a remedy for whatever problems people may have. LGATs call this "taining" or an educational seminar, but it is more like a crusade for converts.
Re: Gratitude Training - Beware
Posted by:
Blurb
()
Date: November 27, 2015 01:33PM
I have been through the entire Gratitude training, but not without a skeptical eye and a refusal to "drink the kool-aid" when something rubs me wrong. Here are my experiences of the program:
First, the icky stuff.
- Yes, there is a moderate amount of pressure to put increasing amounts of money into the program, and eventually to recruit others to do the same. This pressure is encountered during the final day of each program, with an atmosphere similar to a timeshare sales pitch. If you don't intend to continue to the next level, all you need to do is say "no" and stick to it when asked to reconsider. You aren't asked to recruit new members until you've been in the program for a while and it's not treated as mandatory to recruit any particular number. In theory you can complete the entire program without recruiting anyone. Personally I don't care for the pressure to recruit, but I have managed to navigate the training without violating my own personal principles.
- While I think that anyone could benefit from the program in theory, in reality it just isn't for everyone. The exercises are designed to take you outside of your "box", and not everyone who walks through the door is really willing or ready to do that. There were people in my group who simply didn't buy in to the concept, and they got nothing out of it. It happens.
- The atmosphere can be abrasive at times. I say "abrasive" and not "abusive" because it's designed to push your buttons in a non-threatening way. It's all by design, and done quite ingeniously with the purpose of exposing your hang-ups so that you can work on them. Again, some people just cannot handle that long enough to learn from it. If you push through and stick with it, the learning opportunities are tremendous.
OK, having addressed the negatives, here are the positives:
- The training works. I don't know how else to say it. You show up because you want change in your life, and Gratitude training delivers exactly that. The further you go with the program, the more dramatic the results become. To a person, every single member of my Part 2 group showed clear and unmistakable signs of having made a major leap in maturity and control over their lives. Speaking for myself, I have NO doubt that the training was effective in my own personal development.
- It's probably worth the money. The beginning is cheap (free in some locations) and it delivers a quality product. The later parts carry a substantial price tag, but they also offer you the opportunity to focus on financial success as an outcome -- and more importantly, they do exactly what they advertise in terms of giving you a transformational life experience. For me, the improvement in my professional and financial life was worth the cost of attendance. That being said, it really is important to know when to say "no" with regards to spending 4 figures on a seminar.
- You make AMAZING friends. Going through the training bonds you to your classmates like you just wouldn't believe. In a very short timeframe, you go from complete strangers to lifelong friends. And it's not a shallow relationship either -- your entire experience of each other is built around principles of trust and support. For someone like me, who has always maintained small social circles, it's pretty amazing to be able to walk into a room of 20 diverse people and be completely open and genuine with every single one of them. This is one of the BIG payoffs of the whole experience.
While I'm on a roll, I want to touch on some of the liabilities listed in the post above:
> They lack adequate participant-selection
> criteria.
Participants are screened for psychological and medical dangers (ie, heart problems) which could be problematic. Beyond that, there are no selection criteria that I know of. If you want to attend the training, you can attend.
> They lack reliable norms, supervision, and
> adequate training for leaders.
Leadership in the Gratitude organization is HIGHLY structured. Everything is done "by the book" in terms of procedure and accountability. The volunteer leadership goes through intense training in order to keep their positions, and the lead trainers' bios are on the website.
That being said, I personally felt rather distrustful of the staff at first. I realize in hindsight that the initial lack of trust is deliberately structured into the program. Trust develops as part of the training itself, and eventually I came to realize that the staff is really quite dedicated and sincere in their vision of providing a better life for the trainees.
> They lack clearly defined responsibility.
I didn't experience this as an issue.
> They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and
> pseudoreality.
Not sure what this means exactly. There are certainly portions of the program that operate around visioning and meditation exercises, but it's not like they're trying to hypnotize people or anything.
> They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of
> relationships.
I'd say quite the opposite, in my experience it fosters greatly improved patterns of relationships. In the short time since I did the training, I can tick off all the relationships that improved dramatically for me -- my ex-wife and I are friends again, I have led the healing process of two long-running family conflicts, my co-workers have complimented me on showing up better at work, and I have had far more success in talking to women. And I don't think my experience was exceptional... this is pretty much the norm among people in my training group. 90% of it is simply getting social anxieties out of the way so that you can speak to people from your heart without fear of rejection.
> They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of
> ego defenses.
Perhaps it pushes this boundary a bit, but fundamentally the training isn't about getting rid of ego defenses. The point is to recognize them, master them, and deploy them willfully. Personally I feel pretty comfortable with that philosophy.
> They sometimes teach the covert value of total
> exposure instead of valuing personal differences.
The first part of this sentence is gibberish to me, but I would agree that there are moments when personal differences aren't given a very high value. In large part, that happens by design in order to draw out your response and then try and identify what exactly it is that you've built up around your personal differences which results in resistance when they're challenged. It's almost always a learning experience, and occasionally you simply take a stand if necessary and hash it out with the trainer.
> They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles
> and behavioral strategies.
This is actually addressed directly by the trainers -- participants are specifically instructed to give it a couple of days before making any major life decisions. Unfortunately there will be some people who take away an incomplete idea of what the training is really supposed to do for them.
> They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor
> of "experiencing" without self-analysis or
> reflection.
"Experiencing" is central to the training, so this resonates a little bit. But there is a TON of self-analysis and reflection involved as well. Critical thinking is something you should have mastered before you walk in the door, yes?
> They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent
> their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real
> agenda.
I haven't experienced this with Gratitude training.
> They sometimes focus too much on structural
> self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of
> democratic education; as a result participants may
> learn more about themselves and less about group
> process.
Nothing about this is represented as an opportunity to learn about "group process".
> They pay inadequate attention to decisions
> regarding time limitations. This may lead to
> increased pressure on some participants to
> unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.
This probably happens to an extent, when trainees are trying too hard to "win" the game of self-improvement.
> They fail to adequately consider the
> "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group
> participation (or] adverse countertransference
> reactions.
I honestly don't know what this even means.
> Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what
> participants should experience and believe, how
> they should behave in the group. and when they
> should change.
The trainers can certainly be rigid in this sense. Be prepared for it. That being said, your experience is your experience. Nobody is going to try and dictate it to you.
> Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and
> assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional
> breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic
> experience, and sadistically pressed to create or
> force a breakthrough in every participant.
"Sadistically" goes too far. The trainers certainly do press every participant to achieve breakthroughs... that's what they're being paid to do. Cathartic emotional breakthroughs are at the core of the training, so yes, they are highly valued in this context.
> Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that
> was the one single pathway to salvation.
Gratitude is non-religious so this doesn't enter into the equation.
> Leaders were true believers and sealed their
> doctrine off from discomforting data or
> disquieting results and tended to discount a poor
> result by, "blaming the victim."
I would say the trainers believe very strongly in their process. They insist on buy-in from participants, and frankly it's very hard to imagine someone who's really opening up and failing to get results from this program. In my limited experience, nobody got poor results after putting in genuine effort toward success.
> Many LGATs use coercive persuasion to gain undue
> influence over participants.
This is so vague I'm not really sure what it's meant to address. "Undue influence" meaning what exactly?
Hope this is helpful. As a whole, I'd say that it's a highly worthwhile experience to try the first part. If you see results, continue with the program because it WILL get more powerful (A LOT more powerful) and if you don't see results after the first part, it's still useful as general leadership/relationship practice.
First, the icky stuff.
- Yes, there is a moderate amount of pressure to put increasing amounts of money into the program, and eventually to recruit others to do the same. This pressure is encountered during the final day of each program, with an atmosphere similar to a timeshare sales pitch. If you don't intend to continue to the next level, all you need to do is say "no" and stick to it when asked to reconsider. You aren't asked to recruit new members until you've been in the program for a while and it's not treated as mandatory to recruit any particular number. In theory you can complete the entire program without recruiting anyone. Personally I don't care for the pressure to recruit, but I have managed to navigate the training without violating my own personal principles.
- While I think that anyone could benefit from the program in theory, in reality it just isn't for everyone. The exercises are designed to take you outside of your "box", and not everyone who walks through the door is really willing or ready to do that. There were people in my group who simply didn't buy in to the concept, and they got nothing out of it. It happens.
- The atmosphere can be abrasive at times. I say "abrasive" and not "abusive" because it's designed to push your buttons in a non-threatening way. It's all by design, and done quite ingeniously with the purpose of exposing your hang-ups so that you can work on them. Again, some people just cannot handle that long enough to learn from it. If you push through and stick with it, the learning opportunities are tremendous.
OK, having addressed the negatives, here are the positives:
- The training works. I don't know how else to say it. You show up because you want change in your life, and Gratitude training delivers exactly that. The further you go with the program, the more dramatic the results become. To a person, every single member of my Part 2 group showed clear and unmistakable signs of having made a major leap in maturity and control over their lives. Speaking for myself, I have NO doubt that the training was effective in my own personal development.
- It's probably worth the money. The beginning is cheap (free in some locations) and it delivers a quality product. The later parts carry a substantial price tag, but they also offer you the opportunity to focus on financial success as an outcome -- and more importantly, they do exactly what they advertise in terms of giving you a transformational life experience. For me, the improvement in my professional and financial life was worth the cost of attendance. That being said, it really is important to know when to say "no" with regards to spending 4 figures on a seminar.
- You make AMAZING friends. Going through the training bonds you to your classmates like you just wouldn't believe. In a very short timeframe, you go from complete strangers to lifelong friends. And it's not a shallow relationship either -- your entire experience of each other is built around principles of trust and support. For someone like me, who has always maintained small social circles, it's pretty amazing to be able to walk into a room of 20 diverse people and be completely open and genuine with every single one of them. This is one of the BIG payoffs of the whole experience.
While I'm on a roll, I want to touch on some of the liabilities listed in the post above:
> They lack adequate participant-selection
> criteria.
Participants are screened for psychological and medical dangers (ie, heart problems) which could be problematic. Beyond that, there are no selection criteria that I know of. If you want to attend the training, you can attend.
> They lack reliable norms, supervision, and
> adequate training for leaders.
Leadership in the Gratitude organization is HIGHLY structured. Everything is done "by the book" in terms of procedure and accountability. The volunteer leadership goes through intense training in order to keep their positions, and the lead trainers' bios are on the website.
That being said, I personally felt rather distrustful of the staff at first. I realize in hindsight that the initial lack of trust is deliberately structured into the program. Trust develops as part of the training itself, and eventually I came to realize that the staff is really quite dedicated and sincere in their vision of providing a better life for the trainees.
> They lack clearly defined responsibility.
I didn't experience this as an issue.
> They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and
> pseudoreality.
Not sure what this means exactly. There are certainly portions of the program that operate around visioning and meditation exercises, but it's not like they're trying to hypnotize people or anything.
> They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of
> relationships.
I'd say quite the opposite, in my experience it fosters greatly improved patterns of relationships. In the short time since I did the training, I can tick off all the relationships that improved dramatically for me -- my ex-wife and I are friends again, I have led the healing process of two long-running family conflicts, my co-workers have complimented me on showing up better at work, and I have had far more success in talking to women. And I don't think my experience was exceptional... this is pretty much the norm among people in my training group. 90% of it is simply getting social anxieties out of the way so that you can speak to people from your heart without fear of rejection.
> They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of
> ego defenses.
Perhaps it pushes this boundary a bit, but fundamentally the training isn't about getting rid of ego defenses. The point is to recognize them, master them, and deploy them willfully. Personally I feel pretty comfortable with that philosophy.
> They sometimes teach the covert value of total
> exposure instead of valuing personal differences.
The first part of this sentence is gibberish to me, but I would agree that there are moments when personal differences aren't given a very high value. In large part, that happens by design in order to draw out your response and then try and identify what exactly it is that you've built up around your personal differences which results in resistance when they're challenged. It's almost always a learning experience, and occasionally you simply take a stand if necessary and hash it out with the trainer.
> They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles
> and behavioral strategies.
This is actually addressed directly by the trainers -- participants are specifically instructed to give it a couple of days before making any major life decisions. Unfortunately there will be some people who take away an incomplete idea of what the training is really supposed to do for them.
> They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor
> of "experiencing" without self-analysis or
> reflection.
"Experiencing" is central to the training, so this resonates a little bit. But there is a TON of self-analysis and reflection involved as well. Critical thinking is something you should have mastered before you walk in the door, yes?
> They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent
> their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real
> agenda.
I haven't experienced this with Gratitude training.
> They sometimes focus too much on structural
> self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of
> democratic education; as a result participants may
> learn more about themselves and less about group
> process.
Nothing about this is represented as an opportunity to learn about "group process".
> They pay inadequate attention to decisions
> regarding time limitations. This may lead to
> increased pressure on some participants to
> unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.
This probably happens to an extent, when trainees are trying too hard to "win" the game of self-improvement.
> They fail to adequately consider the
> "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group
> participation (or] adverse countertransference
> reactions.
I honestly don't know what this even means.
> Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what
> participants should experience and believe, how
> they should behave in the group. and when they
> should change.
The trainers can certainly be rigid in this sense. Be prepared for it. That being said, your experience is your experience. Nobody is going to try and dictate it to you.
> Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and
> assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional
> breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic
> experience, and sadistically pressed to create or
> force a breakthrough in every participant.
"Sadistically" goes too far. The trainers certainly do press every participant to achieve breakthroughs... that's what they're being paid to do. Cathartic emotional breakthroughs are at the core of the training, so yes, they are highly valued in this context.
> Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that
> was the one single pathway to salvation.
Gratitude is non-religious so this doesn't enter into the equation.
> Leaders were true believers and sealed their
> doctrine off from discomforting data or
> disquieting results and tended to discount a poor
> result by, "blaming the victim."
I would say the trainers believe very strongly in their process. They insist on buy-in from participants, and frankly it's very hard to imagine someone who's really opening up and failing to get results from this program. In my limited experience, nobody got poor results after putting in genuine effort toward success.
> Many LGATs use coercive persuasion to gain undue
> influence over participants.
This is so vague I'm not really sure what it's meant to address. "Undue influence" meaning what exactly?
Hope this is helpful. As a whole, I'd say that it's a highly worthwhile experience to try the first part. If you see results, continue with the program because it WILL get more powerful (A LOT more powerful) and if you don't see results after the first part, it's still useful as general leadership/relationship practice.
Re: Gratitude Training - Beware
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: November 27, 2015 11:13PM
To whom it may concern:
LGATs (large group awareness training) like Gratitude is in business to essentially sell the philosophy of the LGAT leader or owner. Most LGATs around today copy other LGATs. The most established and successful LGAT is probably Landmark Education, formerly known as EST (Erhard Seminar Training) founded by Werner Erhard.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Landmark, which claims to provide its participants with "breakthroughs," has a history of complaints, labor violations, personal injury lawsuits and bad press.
In fact, there is no scientifically measurable results that has ever been established based upon objectively researched facts and published in a credible scientific journal about the effectiveness of LGATs.
Landmark, which seems to pull in the most money, certainly has the resources to fund such a study, but has chosen not to do so.
Such a serious scientific study could measure objective results gained directly from the training and retained after one year, two years, three years, perhaps five years out, amongst its graduates measured against an outside control group.
Objective results would include such things as a lower divorce rate, higher grades in school, higher income and job promotions, less need for anxiety medication, less need for professional counseling, etc.
Instead LGATs like Gratitude most often rely upon surveys and polling that measure subjective results about how people feel about the training.
No one doubts that LGATs can influence the way people feel, which has been compared to psychological and emotional manipulation.
See [www.culteducation.com]
The paper describes the basics of coercive persuasion often used by controversial seminar selling for-profit companies like Landmark Education.
I would not recommend an LGAT like Gratitude or Landmark training to anyone under any circumstances. There are far safer alternatives such as counseling with a licensed professional, continuing education, specific community support groups regarding a certain issue or need and/or simply talking to and sharing your problems with family, old trusted friends and past mentors.
Beware!
Don't be tricked or trapped by any training programs that promises amazing results, but cannot objectively prove its results are real. meaningful and lasting.
Remember that such programs can be risky and never sign away any of your legal rights through a waiver before entering such a program.
Protect yourself legally and through research before considering any seminar training program.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2015 03:35AM by rrmoderator.
LGATs (large group awareness training) like Gratitude is in business to essentially sell the philosophy of the LGAT leader or owner. Most LGATs around today copy other LGATs. The most established and successful LGAT is probably Landmark Education, formerly known as EST (Erhard Seminar Training) founded by Werner Erhard.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Landmark, which claims to provide its participants with "breakthroughs," has a history of complaints, labor violations, personal injury lawsuits and bad press.
In fact, there is no scientifically measurable results that has ever been established based upon objectively researched facts and published in a credible scientific journal about the effectiveness of LGATs.
Landmark, which seems to pull in the most money, certainly has the resources to fund such a study, but has chosen not to do so.
Such a serious scientific study could measure objective results gained directly from the training and retained after one year, two years, three years, perhaps five years out, amongst its graduates measured against an outside control group.
Objective results would include such things as a lower divorce rate, higher grades in school, higher income and job promotions, less need for anxiety medication, less need for professional counseling, etc.
Instead LGATs like Gratitude most often rely upon surveys and polling that measure subjective results about how people feel about the training.
No one doubts that LGATs can influence the way people feel, which has been compared to psychological and emotional manipulation.
See [www.culteducation.com]
The paper describes the basics of coercive persuasion often used by controversial seminar selling for-profit companies like Landmark Education.
I would not recommend an LGAT like Gratitude or Landmark training to anyone under any circumstances. There are far safer alternatives such as counseling with a licensed professional, continuing education, specific community support groups regarding a certain issue or need and/or simply talking to and sharing your problems with family, old trusted friends and past mentors.
Beware!
Don't be tricked or trapped by any training programs that promises amazing results, but cannot objectively prove its results are real. meaningful and lasting.
Remember that such programs can be risky and never sign away any of your legal rights through a waiver before entering such a program.
Protect yourself legally and through research before considering any seminar training program.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2015 03:35AM by rrmoderator.
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