Thanks for the link midonov, unfortunately I can't speak, read or understand french at at. Its a shame as I would have liked to read/hear it.

Quote

The cult leader in France, Alain Roth, says that Landmark was put on the cult list on the National Assembly report without asking him/them/Landmark. And he says Landmark is not a cult, that it is a mistake

This is extreamly typical of landmark education! If it weren't for the fact that I know it would be silly for me to do I would like to go to an introduction pretend to know nothing then ask about it being a cult using france as an example! see what the introduction leaders say

Quote
sonnie_dee
This is extreamly typical of landmark education! If it weren't for the fact that I know it would be silly for me to do I would like to go to an introduction pretend to know nothing then ask about it being a cult using france as an example! see what the introduction leaders say

Sonnie,

Essentially, they will quote the expert report from Dr. Raymond Fowler who declared that Landmark is not a cult. They will even quote Margaret Singer who had to declare publicly that Landmark is not a cult after she got sued by them. Actually, the report by Dr. Fowler is the one that caused me the most trouble in the beginning, but I remembered that psychology is not an exact science and even experts will disagree about the exact definition of a "cult". Landmark plays on this ambiguity about the terminology to say they are not a cult, and then claiming that they are perfectly ethical in their methodology. Margaret Singer described them as a controversial New Age group, and it is clear in her writing that their methodology is that of a cult.

An important report not publicized by Landmark is the one from Jean-Marie Abgraal (he is in the documentary), a report that is not elogious toward Landmark. He says "I never said it is a cult, I never said it isn't". And he continues by saying that they use dangerous methods that may very well go out of control. Of course, landmark will not refer to his expert report in their publicity exept to say that even J-M Abgraal says it's not a cult. They are expert at manipulating not only people, but information too. In science, we see this as fraud.

Yes that quote by Dr fowler was one we were expected to give. It was in a huge booklet of articles that everyone had to read.

From memory (and I could be wrong) we were also telling people that the cult awareness network had said Landmark was not a cult.

From what I now understand the cult awareness network is run by scientology and given Landmark is based in scientology of course they wouldn't name it a cult!

It doesn't suprise me that Landmark manipulates and takes parts of comments to suit themselves. Nothing like taking something out of context to change the meaning of it and landmark does this alot.

I do not know if the Church of Scientology still considers Landmark a threat in the 1970's they had put Erhard on their enemies list.

Jane Self, who I guess figured somewhere in the Forum/Landmark hierarchy, had a self-published book entitled [i:9d19f92e9c]60 Minutes and the Assasination of Werner Erhard[/i:9d19f92e9c] says, basically, that Erhard never did anything wrong and lays all the blame on the Church of Scientology. when I brought up Erhard's past on the pro-Landmark mailing list on Yahoogroups I got this denial smokescreen, straight out of the book. surprised that you did not know this.

I think that the CAN statement probably dates from prior to 1996 when CAN went bankrupt and the Church of Scientology bought them up. the current CAN website has no mention of Landmark, pro- or con. the website has propaganda directed against Margaret Singer, Rick Ross and Steve Hassan and nameless "Violent Deprogrammers" though. and they totally love "religious freedom"!

Quote
midonov123
For France, you will find everything in the report from the National Assembly on cults at this address (in english):

[cftf.com]

Information on the About-Picard anti-cult law can be found here:

[www.religionandpolicy.org]

This anti-cult law is a world premier, and the key word is "sujétion psychologique" which translate to "psychological subjection"

I don't know about other countries.

Thanks to all for the helpful information. And Vive la France! 8)

I always get a kick out of Europeans, for they're not so hung up bending over backwards to please all the people all of the time like many of here in the States seem to be. If such European legislation offends a few Nazis, Scientogists, "Landmarkians," and similar ilk, well, that's just that less many kooks for them to have to tolerate. Good for them!

CNFT

Great article from Jerusalem Post:

[www.jpost.com]

"...but also goes after Scientology, Hare Krishna, Falun Gong, Landmark Forum and other cults operating in Jerusalem "

Good news!

I watched 1h French documentary documentary “Voyage au Coeur d’une secte” that was presented on France-3 in 2004 (it took me a while to find the complete documentary through emule). The investigation into Landmark Education was carried out thanks to a journalist Laurent Richard (who was not paid by France 3), equipped with a hidden camera. He did the Forum training course and worked as a volunteer with the accounting department of the seat of the company in France!!!

The documentary was devastating to Landmark Education. A few days after the first diffusion of this investigation in may 2004, the Ministry of Labour and the ministry for finances decided to take several action against Landmark Education. Following these controls, the company ceased all its activities in France.

This is why you will not find France anymore in the lists of countries on the Landmark Education official website (check it out!)

Vive la France!!!

Quote

A few days after the first diffusion of this investigation in may 2004, the Ministry of Labour and the ministry for finances decided to take several action against Landmark Education

This does not surprise me at all, I think as a company globally they flout employement and labour laws regularly but get away with it because their staff don't do anything. The staff in my opinion are too brainwashed to even think like that.

While on staff, I regularly worked 12 to 15 hour days with out any breaks. I would go to take a break and my manager would say oh you can't go now I am about to go on a call or something similar. I was supposed to get one day off a week but every one would call me on a sunday when they needed something.

All staff are supposed to have one weekend off a month but this was a bit of a joke in most places. Annual leave was only available if you could get enough volunteers to do your job while you were away. I regularly had to end up cancelling my leave because there was no one to do my work.

I finally managed to get one week away and I left the region. My boss rang me and I had to do work from the hotel room and then pay for the toll calls and faxes that I had to do.

When I left I seriously thought about laying a complaint with the labour department but at the time I was just so thankful to be out that I left at that, looking back I wish I hadn't but whats done is done.

Ya know,

I think lec has been "outlawed" in the state of critical thinking since creation but hey, it's just IMO. (;~]

PAX

How 'bout we come up with ideas to combat/lead to change, rather than "bitch" about lec...it's strong shit...but ...one single step...starts a journey..

C'mon, many of us are/have suffering (ed) but what have we done to take the offensive? I say this from my own spin - cyle, it's time to STOP & return the shit to the owner.....This has nada conncection to R. Ross....
The only way to stop 'em is thru people power...in these cases, peoples power..

You non-commentors, if you read & agree and posters, contact me....the time has arrived NOW, to act...

PAX