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Europeans define Landmark as a cult
Date: May 13, 2005 07:52AM

Could someone direct me to where I could find out which countries have determined Landmark to be literally a cult?

I realize that here in the states we do not techinically define Landmark as a "cult"...yet.

However I cannot help but wonder if our legal system ever takes into account the decisions of other countries in the definition of such things.

I cannot speak for everyone, but certainly when I hear or read someone describing Landmark as "cult-like" (I always assume its simply for the sake of American lawyers) what I instead hear loud and clear is just plain old "*CULT*."

IMO our American definition of "CULT" simply hasn't been sufficiently updated to include such "controversial" organizations.

A rhetorical question: (But an answer is welcome) I'd be curious, how in their cult definition, the Europeans got beyond the "charismatic leader" criterion that we here are so hung up on?


CNFT

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Europeans define Landmark as a cult
Posted by: midonov123 ()
Date: May 14, 2005 07:27AM

For France, you will find everything in the report from the National Assembly on cults at this address (in english):

[cftf.com]

Information on the About-Picard anti-cult law can be found here:

[www.religionandpolicy.org]

This anti-cult law is a world premier, and the key word is "suj├ętion psychologique" which translate to "psychological subjection"

I don't know about other countries.

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Europeans define Landmark as a cult
Posted by: herbie_k ()
Date: May 14, 2005 10:17AM

Here is a clipping from somewhere on the web. If you do a google search, you should find a link to the report itself in French as well as a link to a site where you can buy a translation into English for about $ 15.00


The parliament established a Commission of Enquiry on Cults that published a controversial report in 1996, entitled "Les sectes en France". The parliamentary report made a clear distinction between "religions" and "cults." Religions served the common good and enjoy religious liberty, while cults are obstacles to the common good and do not deserve the support of the public. The report published a list of 172 "dangerous cults," that included spiritual movements respected in other European countries.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Herbie_K

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Europeans define Landmark as a cult
Posted by: Toni ()
Date: May 14, 2005 01:18PM

I have read that Landmark is outlawed in France,
Scientology outlawed in Germany.

A prior issue of the Cultic Studies Journal wrote that the Italian parliment was debating the definition of thought reform groups in order to outlaw them.

USA law rarely, if ever, takes international laws into consideration.

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Europeans define Landmark as a cult
Posted by: Excalibur ()
Date: May 15, 2005 07:58PM

I know you want to know which countries, and by that I take it you mean which governments consider Landmark a cult. But as far as established cult information and awareness services and organizations worldwide are concerned, I found Landmark listed in the following countries: U.S.A. (except for Cult Awareness Network (CAN) which is now owned by a scientologist), U.K., Australia, New Zealand, France, the Netherlands, Switzerland and Israel. Mind you, these are the only one's I have found. I'm sure there are others.

The cult awareness network in New Zealand classifies Landmark as a "dangerous" cult. In Israel, they have ongoing problems with cults and missionary movements relentlessly trying to convert Jews to Christianity, yet one of the largest anti-cult groups there, Yad L'Achim, still devotes time and efforts to fighting Landmark. Check out this link to an article in the April 29 edition of the Jerusalem Post:

[www.jpost.com]

I recently wrote to the Wellspring Retreat, a residential treatment facility in Ohio that treats former cultists. I asked if they ever treated former Landmarkians and received a response from a Certified Cult Recovery Consultant (CCRC) who informed me that Wellspring has indeed treated many such individuals and others from similar groups.

The verdict is in - Landmark's a cult.

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Europeans define Landmark as a cult
Posted by: midonov123 ()
Date: May 15, 2005 10:09PM

Quote
Toni
I have read that Landmark is outlawed in France,
Scientology outlawed in Germany.

I never read that landmark is actually "outlawed" in France. It is listed as a cult on the 1995 National Assembly report, but it's not outlawed. I think the office in Paris is still in operation. However, their activities are probably closely monitored by the French authorities since the instoration of the About-Picard anti-cult law. However, this law has limited applicability and has not been used yet. If it has and if Landmark is outlawed, this is completely new and great stuff!

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Europeans define Landmark as a cult
Posted by: sonnie_dee ()
Date: May 17, 2005 12:47PM

It would be so interesting to hear how they train their recruits now to answer peoples questions about whether Landmark is a cult.

When training to be an introduction leader we had to learn how to answer that question using the back up of some group or something that had said Landmark was in no way a cult. I wonder what they say now when someone says "well in france" you have been officially labled a cult"!

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Europeans define Landmark as a cult
Posted by: Toni ()
Date: May 17, 2005 01:34PM

I am sorry, mindonov, I don't have the reference for where I read about Landmark in France. I just remember it.... hmmm...

The Italian parliment's debate is in one of the 2004 issues of Cultic Studies Journal. I'll dig around for the issue, then edit this message and post that link.

Corboy, do you know about Landmark's status in France?

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Europeans define Landmark as a cult
Posted by: Savernake ()
Date: May 17, 2005 03:10PM

I seem to recall that they are operating under an additional name in the UK (can't remember what it is, but I'm sure I read it somewhere). What's to stop them just setting up as something else in France?

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Europeans define Landmark as a cult
Posted by: midonov123 ()
Date: May 17, 2005 06:21PM

Quote
sonnie_dee
It would be so interesting to hear how they train their recruits now to answer peoples questions about whether Landmark is a cult.

When training to be an introduction leader we had to learn how to answer that question using the back up of some group or something that had said Landmark was in no way a cult. I wonder what they say now when someone says "well in france" you have been officially labled a cult"!

The cult leader in France, Alain Roth, says that Landmark was put on the cult list on the National Assembly report without asking him/them/Landmark. And he says Landmark is not a cult, that it is a mistake. Of course, the followers believe him. There is an excellent 2h documentary filmed in 2004 by France 3 called "Voyage au Pays des nouveaux gourous" that you can download from this site :
[www.prevensectes.com]
But it's in french.

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