Help In Dealing With A Girlfiend in Quixtar
Posted by:
Nightbird
()
Date: January 14, 2005 02:27AM
I don't date much, and recently met someone is pretty much the person I've been looking for as long as I have been dating. Of course you can guess the one rub: She's a Quixtar-ite. For convenience, I'll call her Dawn.
At this point, she has some legs, but nobody that is really active and trying to build their downline. Dawn has been working at this for a while, but seriously working at it for about 6 months. She goes to 1 business organizational meeting a week and 1 open meeting a week. Of course she (and her partner, a friend) buy all the tools recommended and she goes to the conventions. As in most cases, she and her friend heard about it from trusted family who heard about it from trusted family. The head of the local "team" has been in since something like 1995 (or whenver Quixtar began), but is still working his day job. He's a good enough guy, and allows me to come to some of their parties. Many evenings Dawn is showing "the plan" or going out to malls and places to find contacts.
Dawn is in this because she is a creative and very sensitive and altruistic person with high ideals. She doesn't want to work 40 hours a week for the rest of her life, and she knows there are many people who feel the same way, and wants to help them. She doesn't want the fancy houses of a diamond, but to be able to spend her time on her hobbies and interests. She is not materialistic, but wants to make diamond so she can be free of a pay job for the rest of her life. I do not know how often she listens to tapes or reads all their books. I do sense that she is coming under presure from upline to convert me. I have a small business. Right now I make about what I made as a teacher, but over the next year, I'll be doing much better. I would even be able to hire her in 6-12 months, in a position that would allow her to use a lot of her creativity. She would, in the long run, be able to do some of the idealistic things she wants to if she worked with me.
I've researched Quixtar. I've been to sites like MLM Survivor, Former Diamond, and Merchants of Deception. I know the numbers. (Actually, when you put numbers in front of me, I can't help but to do them.) I know the basic setup of what's going on in this organization. While, on the one hand, it isn't really any of my business, I dread what will happen if she does make diamond and finds out that what she's been saying for years is a lie. She is very idealistic and stands by her morals.
The other day, she was telling me about an upcoming convention. She said I could come, that it was $90 pre-reg, and $100 at the door. I asked how many people were coming and she said 5,000-8,000. I asked a few preliminary questions like if the fee included rooms (no), or anything but admission (no). Rather quickly, I started muttering, "Let's see, $90 times over 5,000 is going to be about half a million, or a lot more. That's a lot of money coming in." She replied that renting a colesium is expensive. I asked, more or less rhetorically, if it should cost half a million to rent one for a weekend. She didn't answer, and I could tell she was uncomfortable. I think that may be good, since it indicated she may actually still have room for quesitons about Quixtar.
I've dropped a few questions like this from time to time, and she responds with something like, "It's expensive to rent rooms like that." If I mention anything more, like, "Yeah, but that much? Are you sure?" she doesn't have a response. Maybe I'm being devious, but I'm hoping that a few of these questions, here and there, will make it easy for me to tell her just how much profit they make on the weekly meetings (I used to deal with event coordinators, so I have some idea, even without checking).
I don't feel I can just come right out and say, "Hey, they're frauds. You, your partner, your family, even the guy that's doing okay with this, are being fooled. Here's the proof," and show her some of the material I've found. I think if I did, she'd believe me, but that would crush her dreams and probably ruin our relationship. Even if things worked out, that puts me in a terrible "I'm right, and saved you, and you don't know what you're doing" position.
Sorry for all the background, but I wanted to describe the person involved, and let people know that you don't have to tell me the truth about Quixtar.
So here's the questions: I've seen a lot of resources that talk about what Quixtar really is, and what kind of ordeals people have been through, but where are resources that tell people how to DEAL with this? Is there anything out there that gives me ideas of how to gently reach someone who thinks Q. is the answer to all things financial? Does anyone have experiences they can share about how they've reached people in Quixtar, or what it's taken for IBOs who think they can succeed to learn the truth?
Please, don't give me links that tell me how bad things are. I want to hear what people have done, or have found useful in helping them (if they were an IBO) or others who were IBOs see what's going on. Stories, ideas, other forums for those who have had to face this, whatever (is there a Quixtar Anonmymous for those involved with IBOs?) would be appreciated.
Thanks!
At this point, she has some legs, but nobody that is really active and trying to build their downline. Dawn has been working at this for a while, but seriously working at it for about 6 months. She goes to 1 business organizational meeting a week and 1 open meeting a week. Of course she (and her partner, a friend) buy all the tools recommended and she goes to the conventions. As in most cases, she and her friend heard about it from trusted family who heard about it from trusted family. The head of the local "team" has been in since something like 1995 (or whenver Quixtar began), but is still working his day job. He's a good enough guy, and allows me to come to some of their parties. Many evenings Dawn is showing "the plan" or going out to malls and places to find contacts.
Dawn is in this because she is a creative and very sensitive and altruistic person with high ideals. She doesn't want to work 40 hours a week for the rest of her life, and she knows there are many people who feel the same way, and wants to help them. She doesn't want the fancy houses of a diamond, but to be able to spend her time on her hobbies and interests. She is not materialistic, but wants to make diamond so she can be free of a pay job for the rest of her life. I do not know how often she listens to tapes or reads all their books. I do sense that she is coming under presure from upline to convert me. I have a small business. Right now I make about what I made as a teacher, but over the next year, I'll be doing much better. I would even be able to hire her in 6-12 months, in a position that would allow her to use a lot of her creativity. She would, in the long run, be able to do some of the idealistic things she wants to if she worked with me.
I've researched Quixtar. I've been to sites like MLM Survivor, Former Diamond, and Merchants of Deception. I know the numbers. (Actually, when you put numbers in front of me, I can't help but to do them.) I know the basic setup of what's going on in this organization. While, on the one hand, it isn't really any of my business, I dread what will happen if she does make diamond and finds out that what she's been saying for years is a lie. She is very idealistic and stands by her morals.
The other day, she was telling me about an upcoming convention. She said I could come, that it was $90 pre-reg, and $100 at the door. I asked how many people were coming and she said 5,000-8,000. I asked a few preliminary questions like if the fee included rooms (no), or anything but admission (no). Rather quickly, I started muttering, "Let's see, $90 times over 5,000 is going to be about half a million, or a lot more. That's a lot of money coming in." She replied that renting a colesium is expensive. I asked, more or less rhetorically, if it should cost half a million to rent one for a weekend. She didn't answer, and I could tell she was uncomfortable. I think that may be good, since it indicated she may actually still have room for quesitons about Quixtar.
I've dropped a few questions like this from time to time, and she responds with something like, "It's expensive to rent rooms like that." If I mention anything more, like, "Yeah, but that much? Are you sure?" she doesn't have a response. Maybe I'm being devious, but I'm hoping that a few of these questions, here and there, will make it easy for me to tell her just how much profit they make on the weekly meetings (I used to deal with event coordinators, so I have some idea, even without checking).
I don't feel I can just come right out and say, "Hey, they're frauds. You, your partner, your family, even the guy that's doing okay with this, are being fooled. Here's the proof," and show her some of the material I've found. I think if I did, she'd believe me, but that would crush her dreams and probably ruin our relationship. Even if things worked out, that puts me in a terrible "I'm right, and saved you, and you don't know what you're doing" position.
Sorry for all the background, but I wanted to describe the person involved, and let people know that you don't have to tell me the truth about Quixtar.
So here's the questions: I've seen a lot of resources that talk about what Quixtar really is, and what kind of ordeals people have been through, but where are resources that tell people how to DEAL with this? Is there anything out there that gives me ideas of how to gently reach someone who thinks Q. is the answer to all things financial? Does anyone have experiences they can share about how they've reached people in Quixtar, or what it's taken for IBOs who think they can succeed to learn the truth?
Please, don't give me links that tell me how bad things are. I want to hear what people have done, or have found useful in helping them (if they were an IBO) or others who were IBOs see what's going on. Stories, ideas, other forums for those who have had to face this, whatever (is there a Quixtar Anonmymous for those involved with IBOs?) would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Help In Dealing With A Girlfiend in Quixtar
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: January 14, 2005 06:04AM
I'll just give you a guys point of view.
If it were me, I would just tell the truth. No games.
I meet women all the time, who are into various cults, sects, MLM, Amway-Quixtar, religions, etc.
I pretty much just call it like I see it, while being polite.
As far as YOUR money and business, that is so easy its not funny.
What would you do if a vendor came to you with some crackpot idea for something to rip you off?
"Hmmm, thanks but no thanks".
That's all I tell people, no thanks, not interested.
It seems to me you are afraid she will leave you if you just stand up for yourself?
Also, Quixtar tries to get the spouses involved, as you are finding out.
So sorry for being so blunt, but do you really want to get serious with a Quixtar junky?
If its just dating, if it were me I would tell her the facts, and let her do what she wants with HER money.
But not ONE CENT of my money.
If it were me, I would just tell her the facts. The "Diamond" thing is a trick, its a con-game.
Also, Quixtar/Amway people wreck all their friendships, I don't want that crap in my life.
So that's my opinion.
Just tell it like it is. That's what i do, and would do, and will do. How can one do anything else but be yourself?
Coz
If it were me, I would just tell the truth. No games.
I meet women all the time, who are into various cults, sects, MLM, Amway-Quixtar, religions, etc.
I pretty much just call it like I see it, while being polite.
As far as YOUR money and business, that is so easy its not funny.
What would you do if a vendor came to you with some crackpot idea for something to rip you off?
"Hmmm, thanks but no thanks".
That's all I tell people, no thanks, not interested.
It seems to me you are afraid she will leave you if you just stand up for yourself?
Also, Quixtar tries to get the spouses involved, as you are finding out.
So sorry for being so blunt, but do you really want to get serious with a Quixtar junky?
If its just dating, if it were me I would tell her the facts, and let her do what she wants with HER money.
But not ONE CENT of my money.
If it were me, I would just tell her the facts. The "Diamond" thing is a trick, its a con-game.
Also, Quixtar/Amway people wreck all their friendships, I don't want that crap in my life.
So that's my opinion.
Just tell it like it is. That's what i do, and would do, and will do. How can one do anything else but be yourself?
Coz
Help In Dealing With A Girlfiend in Quixtar
Posted by:
Nightbird
()
Date: January 14, 2005 06:43AM
When she brings up the topic, I point out that I have my own business, that I've spent a long time building it, and that I don't have time to squeeze in another business. I'll soon have more free time, and when that happens, I'm going to point out that her business is anything but part time, and I'm not about to give up my hard earned free time to do something that is producing as few rewards as Quixtar is for her.
I wouldn't say it's specifically a fear of losing her, and it's not about standing up for myself. It's not that simple. When you are the one who smashes someone's dreams, there's a lot of fallout with that. (That's why I took the time to point out what she thinks Quixtar will give her.) Even if the relationship stays intact, it can be devastating, in this case for her, her friend, and what amounts to 2 families involved.
I worked for years in residential treatment. I learned a lot about seing people's dreams and concepts of reality taken apart. The result is a lot better if the person decides, by him or herself, that their viewpoint is wrong. There's also the point that if a person decides something on their own, their sure of it. If someone else tells them, there's always a question left.
That's why I'm hoping to get ideas and comments. For example, what was it that lead IBOs to step back and see something was wrong? Was it numbers? Was it going broke? Was it a friend who basically did what amounted to an intervention? What have people here seen that influenced them or others to leave Quixtar?
I wouldn't say it's specifically a fear of losing her, and it's not about standing up for myself. It's not that simple. When you are the one who smashes someone's dreams, there's a lot of fallout with that. (That's why I took the time to point out what she thinks Quixtar will give her.) Even if the relationship stays intact, it can be devastating, in this case for her, her friend, and what amounts to 2 families involved.
I worked for years in residential treatment. I learned a lot about seing people's dreams and concepts of reality taken apart. The result is a lot better if the person decides, by him or herself, that their viewpoint is wrong. There's also the point that if a person decides something on their own, their sure of it. If someone else tells them, there's always a question left.
That's why I'm hoping to get ideas and comments. For example, what was it that lead IBOs to step back and see something was wrong? Was it numbers? Was it going broke? Was it a friend who basically did what amounted to an intervention? What have people here seen that influenced them or others to leave Quixtar?
Help In Dealing With A Girlfiend in Quixtar
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: January 14, 2005 10:05AM
Why not try some of the anti-Quixtar, anti-Amway websites?
There might be some more specific methods from them.
There is not that much Amway/Quixtar traffic on this site.
But let me tell you this. I knew a few guys who went crazy for Amway. These guys would NEVER stop trying to sell me, no matter what i said. In the end i had to end the friendship, it was too toxic for me.
We don't have to give up our dreams, we just have to be smart about them.
Personally, i don't approve of meeting someone, and then trying to change them or save them. It doesn't feel good to be saved or changed.
But to change someone, its a process of "shifting beliefs".
You shift beliefs by new experiences, and new information, over time.
You do the same thing Quixtar is doing, but just the opposite.
Good luck.
But bottom line, sometimes people have to learn things the hard way. If it were me, i would just tell it like it is, and let the facts fall where they may.
That can produce a Cognitive and Belief shift.
Try this link
[www.culteducation.com]
Coz
There might be some more specific methods from them.
There is not that much Amway/Quixtar traffic on this site.
But let me tell you this. I knew a few guys who went crazy for Amway. These guys would NEVER stop trying to sell me, no matter what i said. In the end i had to end the friendship, it was too toxic for me.
We don't have to give up our dreams, we just have to be smart about them.
Personally, i don't approve of meeting someone, and then trying to change them or save them. It doesn't feel good to be saved or changed.
But to change someone, its a process of "shifting beliefs".
You shift beliefs by new experiences, and new information, over time.
You do the same thing Quixtar is doing, but just the opposite.
Good luck.
But bottom line, sometimes people have to learn things the hard way. If it were me, i would just tell it like it is, and let the facts fall where they may.
That can produce a Cognitive and Belief shift.
Try this link
[www.culteducation.com]
Coz
Help In Dealing With A Girlfiend in Quixtar
Posted by:
ULTAWARE
()
Date: January 14, 2005 11:27AM
Nightbird,
I lost a spouse 0f 20+ yrs (no, not for any other reason ) due to LEC, but my daughter (who tried to stop my now ex from driving away by jumping on the hood of my ex's car) after an intervention attempt endured that & sees what one of her best friend's (& mom & dad) are wrapped up into
Gather info/knowledge, support groups - BE CAREFUL tho-keep your logical/discerning side eyes wide open ALWAYS....being nice, supportive - IMO- ain't gonna do SQUAT - they are altering the techniques.....
I don't mean to scare ya, just jolt ya into an awareness of how powerful this crap (all groups who use the techniques) is
Plz E-m if you think I might be able to help....
P.A.X.
I lost a spouse 0f 20+ yrs (no, not for any other reason ) due to LEC, but my daughter (who tried to stop my now ex from driving away by jumping on the hood of my ex's car) after an intervention attempt endured that & sees what one of her best friend's (& mom & dad) are wrapped up into
Gather info/knowledge, support groups - BE CAREFUL tho-keep your logical/discerning side eyes wide open ALWAYS....being nice, supportive - IMO- ain't gonna do SQUAT - they are altering the techniques.....
I don't mean to scare ya, just jolt ya into an awareness of how powerful this crap (all groups who use the techniques) is
Plz E-m if you think I might be able to help....
P.A.X.
Help In Dealing With A Girlfiend in Quixtar
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: January 15, 2005 04:25AM
Help In Dealing With A Girlfiend in Quixtar
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: January 15, 2005 06:57AM
Here is a video and transcript from Dateline exposing Quixtar fraud. Show aired May 7, 2004.
Watching this video should really shake someone's Beliefs up.
Coz
[cpserverp4.com]
[msnbc.msn.com]
Watching this video should really shake someone's Beliefs up.
Coz
[cpserverp4.com]
[msnbc.msn.com]
Help In Dealing With A Girlfiend in Quixtar
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: January 15, 2005 08:13AM
That video above is terrific, it exposes the entire scam.
The average person makes about $1,400 a year.
And you get to see the main Quixtar speakers on-stage live, they are all blatant sleezbag conmen. Its so obvious.
Especially the main guy, he is like a Mafia Don.
And then they expose another local Quixtar guy as a liar, and show how the guy actually has warrant for his arrest in another state for drug possession.
Criminals and con-artists.
Coz
The average person makes about $1,400 a year.
And you get to see the main Quixtar speakers on-stage live, they are all blatant sleezbag conmen. Its so obvious.
Especially the main guy, he is like a Mafia Don.
And then they expose another local Quixtar guy as a liar, and show how the guy actually has warrant for his arrest in another state for drug possession.
Criminals and con-artists.
Coz
Help In Dealing With A Girlfiend in Quixtar
Posted by:
Riddler
()
Date: February 02, 2005 02:06PM
Keep doing research on the internet, pal. :)
Also ask her "Why is it so much for the tapes and other tools?"
You touched the tip of the iceberg when you asked her about the rental for the auditorium, there are plenty more things slid under the rug around there! Get Steven Buttersfeild's book "Amway; The Cult Of Free Enterprise". It was a total eye opener for me. :shock:
By the way, if she's trying to drag you into it, maybe it's time to tell her you have a plan of your own. Like changing your phone number and telling her you are "sold" on someone else! :lol:
Also ask her "Why is it so much for the tapes and other tools?"
You touched the tip of the iceberg when you asked her about the rental for the auditorium, there are plenty more things slid under the rug around there! Get Steven Buttersfeild's book "Amway; The Cult Of Free Enterprise". It was a total eye opener for me. :shock:
By the way, if she's trying to drag you into it, maybe it's time to tell her you have a plan of your own. Like changing your phone number and telling her you are "sold" on someone else! :lol:
Help In Dealing With A Girlfiend in Quixtar
Posted by:
ULTAWARE
()
Date: February 03, 2005 01:17PM
Cosmo p'
I agree with alot of the point you make but all is not just black or white...
My wife did a 187 degree chg during/after/post LEC, for diff reasons than the ways others have suffered. IMO, each individual A"incident" is an event "unto itself".....the preach is self improve ("but we can't tell ya beforehand what it might be-surprise!) but the delivery is something Edgar Allen Poe might be proud of!!! :P
ok, if you think that Edgar was asssociated with the Catholic Church, you are too young to even know the secret of the Beatles Abbey ..... :wink:
Anyway CP, I do not mean to make light of your comments, it's just that too many of us [humane Beings] (IMO) totally look at things as "they are either A or B" , "white or black"," male or female", shrub or Dem, etc...
Rent the movie "They Live" (It's an oldie, but....)
There are many sides to an opinion...yours, mine, theirs, the $ - making one (prevalent, IMO), C-risktion ( :wink: ), the "correct" one [sorry (not) LEC] AND the true one...
As Always, THaNX for your contributions...I really appreciate it your comments, along with other deeplyaware, senstitive members...
LEC - CULT or CULTURE??????
PAX
I agree with alot of the point you make but all is not just black or white...
My wife did a 187 degree chg during/after/post LEC, for diff reasons than the ways others have suffered. IMO, each individual A"incident" is an event "unto itself".....the preach is self improve ("but we can't tell ya beforehand what it might be-surprise!) but the delivery is something Edgar Allen Poe might be proud of!!! :P
ok, if you think that Edgar was asssociated with the Catholic Church, you are too young to even know the secret of the Beatles Abbey ..... :wink:
Anyway CP, I do not mean to make light of your comments, it's just that too many of us [humane Beings] (IMO) totally look at things as "they are either A or B" , "white or black"," male or female", shrub or Dem, etc...
Rent the movie "They Live" (It's an oldie, but....)
There are many sides to an opinion...yours, mine, theirs, the $ - making one (prevalent, IMO), C-risktion ( :wink: ), the "correct" one [sorry (not) LEC] AND the true one...
As Always, THaNX for your contributions...I really appreciate it your comments, along with other deeplyaware, senstitive members...
LEC - CULT or CULTURE??????
PAX
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