Does anybody know anything about this MLM organization? I've read through much of the stuff here about Amway and other pyramid scheme-type groups and have learned enough to be slightly concerned.

I have an aunt whom I love dearly but must honestly describe as less-than-intelligent. She's given money to Joyce Meyer and is ripe to be exploited by the likes of a MLM scheme. A couple of years ago, she started with some group called "Sunrider" that sells things like tea and vitamins, household cleaning products that are supposed to be better than anything you can get on the market, etc. The first time I saw her after she became involved, she was babbling incessantly about how I would find the tools to improve my life, blah, blah, blah and if I wasn't interested in Sunrider, it was obviously because I was in a complacent rut and was too lazy for self-improvement. Like I said, she is not very intelligent, so it was probably one of the worst MLM sells ever delivered, but I am still concerned. She is far from wealthy but spends a lot of money on "miracle products" that are supposed to help improve this or cure that.

I'm just wondering if anybody has any information about this organization and if there's any history of people coming forward claiming to be ripped off or alienated from their family members that may not be supportive. If I end up approaching her with any information, I do not want her to go batty and wind up being told by someone within the organization that I don't love her and my objections to Sunrider are because I don't want to see her happy, when nothing could be more contrary to the truth.

My wife was/is involved with Sunrider. It is a typical ‘herbal products’ MLM like Herbalife. Take a look at:

[www.ncahf.org]
[www.mlmwatch.org]
[www.eskimo.com]

for more material on the organisation and its founders.

And
[www.quackwatch.org]
[www.mlmwatch.org]

for general information on MLMs.

Sunrider have a fairly standard MLM business model where the vast majority of distributors don’t make money, though I know one or two who do (as an adjunct to their activities as ‘holistic therapists’ etc). It can get expensive if you try to make it work as a business and aren’t succeeding – my wife spent $350 a month for three years (plus the conference trips and the tapes). Eventually she decided, despite extensive coaching from her upline, that it wasn’t viable for her – which may well happen to your aunt too. My wife is now settled as a consumer plus selling a few products to friends to help pay for her stuff. I’ll admit some of it (skin care, infusions) is OK, though expensive.

Frances, I certainly didn’t see any evidence that the company got involved with pressurising distributors at low levels to neglect/alienate their families if they are not supportive. That’s not to say that it couldn’t happen in an individual case if her upline (the people who recruited her) are so disposed. Do you know who they are? Can you speak to them to get an idea of their approach/motivation? They will be somewhere on the scale between encouragement and exploitation – I guess you are concerned they might be nearer the latter.

My suggestion would be to take it gently – don’t dump all the info on her or make it the big issue every time you see her.

One more thing to think about. What happens to the distributor when the ‘business’ doesn’t work out? How will you deal with this? Support is better than ‘told-you-so’. Will your aunt shrug it off or blame herself for getting involved or for not being able to make it work? This was the biggest problem in my wife’s case. She started beating herself up about her failure. Which was when her upline enrolled her into Landmark. But that’s another story.

Woody,
Thank you so much for the information. It is very much appreciated.

I don't know how deep my Aunt's involvement is and don't know who her immediate "upline" people are or their tactics. At first I was only concerned because she is far from wealthy and I didn't want her spending so much money on junk stuff that isn't doing anything to improve her health. After what I've read, I understand some of it can actually be bad for her. At any rate, the founder of this organization is a despicable person with bogus credentials (my Aunt often talks about how these products were designed "by a doctor." This man was anything but) and I don't want anybody in my family contributing to the success of this organization.

I agree with you about approaching her. There will be no "told-you-sos" or anything like that. My concern is for her health and happiness, not my personal victory dance because I was right or anything. I've sent an e-mail to my parents alerting them to a lot of the stuff I've read and think we should discuss as a family the best way to bring this matter to my Aunt.

Again, thanks.

There's a significant overlap with these groups. I guess the people who are attracted to one like the model of pyramid sales so much they see nothing wrong with getting involved with others. There were Amway people at the one Landmark Forum "Introduction" I attended.

"Dr." Chen, is a neighbor of mine. I see the information about the $92 (?) million-dollar fine he paid is in one of Woody's links. (As far as I know, he didn't do any time.) Funnily enough, he is also a Mormon. He was recently "counselled" to move his swimming pool by a Feng Shui "expert," which he did at great expense. I wonder if he really believes the Mormon cr*pola also. I'll betcha he does. Look what it's done for him, LOL. Like some member of a "cargo cult" who sees the huge silver birds bringing heavenly gifts down to earth, he probably thinks the white man's "god" is very, very generous.




Ellen

I only know of Sunrider here in Israel. My wifes uncle and his wife are invovled with it. While visiting with them...they told us all about Sunrider. Like how the cleaning products are so natural that you can drink or eat them and it will not hurt you. So, I looked at him and said Ok, take a shot of a cleanser and lets see. He gave me such a look and never did it. When they tried to recruit us, my wife and I we spoken to apart. Like the old police trick used in investigations. The also claimed that they used nothing but Sunrider products, which was not true. The bottom line is that I do not like MLM's...as they are nothing more than thinly disguised Pyramis schemes. Are they cult like? I cannot say...but based on my wifes uncle and his wife...it seemed like it.