Hi All,

I was the first New Zealander to go to the Cenacolo in Medjugorje without having gone to community in an English speaking country first. I was in my mid 30's and left after a few months as I had a back sprain so bad physio's wouldn't touch me for 6 weeks when I finally got home. They would not let me see a DR whilst in the Cenacolo and kept all my personal items like passport, watch, ID for 3 days after I left in the hope I would return. I left 2 days after an Australian left and he lent me enough money to keep me alive till I had some wired through. When we returned to get our personal items 3-4 days after leaving my Australian friend was threatened and assaulted by the leader of the Cenacolo in Medjugorje. This was one of the most disturbing experiences of my life.

I am now happily married, hard working in the addiction sector and am drug free not through the Cenacolo. None of the people who speak to pilgrims in the Cenacolos have left Community!!!!! It is very easy to be clean and sober in an environment that has no access to drugs or alcohol! I believe that had I stayed longer, I would have been more damaged not just physically but also more emotionally and definitely socially as this is an institution. Almost all my fellow inmates had their passports held by legal judges and very few detainees were there of their own free will. This is not what they show pilgrims........and any family member who puts down their loved ones for leaving community, stay there first yourself for a longer period and then judge them!!!!!!

[Moderator's note: Posting contact information is against the rules.]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2011 08:57PM by rrmoderator.

being in possession of a passport that is not of your belonging is a federal offence... and i know form personal experience after working in france for a number of years in a position of some authority that france take this offence very seriously.

the only organisation that would have the authority to do this would be the french foreign legion, for obvious purposes.


this is some serious shit, and frankly, i would advise anyone to stay away form not only this cult, but, any organised religious group.


fuck me, id love to go over their and create the biggest shit storm that they could ever experience. id like to see some catholic church fuckwit try and assault me. it would be the last few seconds he would spend on this earth...


im so glad i got on to this forum to get some truth from it. but still, i may take a trip over their to sort it out once and for all...

Can see nobody has been on here for a while. Was with the guys at Mary Immaculate for 11 days last April. The longest of any trip back there I've ever had and I want to say I had a great time! The Festival of Life, Easter celebrations, and the osprey who decided to pay us a visit (not to mention the dolphin at the beach) made it all worthwhile.

Started finally with a Catholic religious order just days after that. Have been in it for a month. It's all good, but nothing, one way or the other, is quite like Cenacolo!

Also have a friend who is traveling to Lourdes tomorrow morning and is hoping to see the Community there. Feel very excited for her!

Mike, still looking for contact if you see this page again. But I won't be online a year from now if I go into the postulancy stage of my experience here.

Good Morning and buiongiorno,

Jay, I remember you when I was in Lourdes and through the Community in Florida. You need to get a few things straight about the Community before I re-enter there. They guys there were really harsh to you but you never write about it which is why you need to be honest with yourself and start to stand up for yourself because you are ridiculous in their eyes. I liked you because I saw how shy and how dedicated you are but you need to be honest with these people when you write about the community. It is no a sanctuary like you present it and even the parents get a false sense of what goes on there. Here's how I see it:

The community is a place where the guys get together and pray while working, fasting through acquiescence of The Holy SPirit and through and accomodation of Christ himself where he is present in their lives whether thy pray or not. These guys suffer in a way that not even the partents would be able to handle and they don't understand the suffering that they endure on a daily basis. Much of the suffering is self inflicted in a way that involves guilt which happens through massives self evaluation of their lives as they see it. They suffer daily because of the guilt placed on them by the community at time but mostly through a self evaluation that is imposed on them through Jesus Christ and all The Angels and Saints. This is something that you need to understand because these people out here are getting the wrong impression of what life like there is like because you are not being honest about your time there which is what the community proposes. You need to stop writing about all the praying like they are monks to be idolized because it is very far from the truth and you know it.

What you need to know if that life there is very hard for most of these kids which is what they are, children whose parents leave them because they have no clue how to raise them and foster them in a way that is necessary. What they need is a love so enduring that only Christ himself can give. They are so sensitive to the atrocities of life that most of them can't stand what is going on around them and that's what you bring them by talking all this nonsense as if most of these kids are studying for the priesthood. They aren't priests and neither are you if you can't be honest about your time there. I was there when they ridiculed you so I know from experience how harsh they can be because it isn't a place for a gy like you who is honest and sincere in his search for God but wouldn't a monastary be better for you than a place where you don't understand the mentality or sufferered to the extent they have as far as the community is concerned. I know this is a harsh letter but you need to understand that you do no good telling people things that don't represent the truth as it is which is the Community is a place where drug abusers and the mentally ill go due to a lack of love in the community outside. God fosters them and cares for them in a way that not even they know. It is a place so pure that not even their ridiculous notion of life sometimes can cause them harm because GOd and on God treats them in a way they deserve which is harshness because that is the penalty they pay for the suffering causted by those around them. They suffer so that others can enjoy the peace of life of not having a child that they can't endure and in that suffering so help me God they will receive Paradis in the life after this life which is just life as I know it. It is neither the end nor the beginning because God knows all and sees all even the terrible things that you and I cary in our monds and in our hearts. We tear our bodies apart, we destroy our souls with our needless suffering that we often times impose on others. So you need to stop all of this ridiculous talk of prayers and monastic like visions in your mind and get real with yourself because I know who you are and you are so full of yourself with this priest talk that it makes the other guys laugh at you. Be yourself and stop acting like your some mystic of somthing.

I write this because the parents out there need to know what it's like for their children. I made some mistakes before with what I wrote but I am growing in a faith that was compromised in the community because I fell into arrogance, self pity, and grandiosity to the point where it hurt others. There is nothing in this world that is more important than the truth itself even if it is a bit harsh at times. I love you John but you need to hear it in a way that the community proposes which you don't do very often. They style may be rough but you know the truth inside which is that they guys make fun of you incessantly and to the point where it hurts you because they want you to see how prideful and ridiculous you are to think of all these priestly things about the community. It is and isn't about that but that is reserved for the priests who see you as very childish in your approach to reason and to the point of all the prayers that are necessary. Prayers are very important but if they don't reside in the heart then they become meaningless. You need to understand this because many of your prayers aren't realized because you lack a real faith in the very people you attempt to help and how can you help if you can't understand the very mentality of the people you are attempting to befriend through faith. You need to re-examine yourself in a way that's very hard if you really want to gain an understanding of what they community is all about. You have no clue as to the real difficulties that these kids face and they are kids, trust you me. They suffer in ways you can't even begin to understand and I'm upset because people out there have no understanding of the harm they put on these kids through the stigma of self denial even in themselves. You are puny in their eyes and will remain puny as long as you understand only what you see in yourself. You need to get a grip and share if this bothers you. Trust I saw what they did to you when Jeff and I were in the Forno while they wanted to show a videotape of what you did to yourself. You know who this is and Jeff and I stood up for you because I honestly believed through Jeff's reasoning that what they were doing was wrong. It took a lot to do this but I only realized it because of what did to you in the Kitchen and trust me when you fell down I laughed at first and then realized how cruel I was which is why I reversed course when I did. You need to understand that I forgive you in the sense that you take a bed from someone who needs it because Albino feels a guilt from what happens to you there but he is also trying to teach you how cruel these guys can be so that you can get ready for the confessions that these kids give. There is such a cruelty in them that even I don't understand myself sometimes. I see it in me all the time. I get sexual when I pray, I lose focus on things that are important, and I live guilt inside myself to the point of self pity which is a terrible sin. Jese came to forgive and in his foregivenss he gave us light so that we wouldn't have to walk his shoes even if the Community proposes it.

This is what the community is you guys and don't you buy anything you hear from those folks sometimes. Yes it is a place of joy but only after some serious reflection about what we live inside of ourselves. What is joy except hatred unmasked? What is Light except what the Light of God can offer you? What is Wisdom except Love manifested in the form of energy on these kids through the acquiescence of the Holy Spirit in a way that only God can understand. Even the Co0mmunity doesn't always understand what is going on but you make it sound so easy. Those kids in Lourdes would have punished you for your carelessness if I hadn't stepped in. You nearly killed somebody because you couldn't watch what you were doing and I stepped in a told them to be nice to you because that is what you needed. You were bleeding and nearly cracked your skull because you thought it was your right to be there because you were on some holy pilgrammage but you had no right to be there, trust you me. I should have let them do it because they were primed and had I not stepped in they would have destroyed you with their tongues. They were getting ready for it when I told them to stop because it was an innocent mistake but it wasn't. You have no business there because you don't understand us, so stop bothering Albino because you are a joke to the kids. Promise me that. Take another vocation because there is no way you can be a priest to these kids and it is an obsession to the point of compulsion that you live in the thought that you can be of benefit to these kids because you can't. Even the priest there have so much difficulty because there aren't enough of them to deal with the hell they hear in their confession, trust you me. Glauko is the only one and maybe Ivan if he hasn't gone soft that understands how difficult it really is. They let them run because they understand the hurt that exists in these kids. They suffer so bad that they have nightmares to the point of panic attacks like I do. They scream and their hearts poiund because of the voilence inflicted on them by both their families and the outside world and even more violence inflicted on one another becauase there is no other place to take it if they don't have prayer in their lives.

So get this straight. I like you but I don't like you in the community because you make them suffer even more when they inflict their violence upon you. Even talking to you is weird for them because you don't accomodate their way of life. You need to get a grip on yourself before you head back there because they eat you up everytime you go and you fill the house with a spirit of ridiculousness when you are there. You take food from someone who needs to eat. You take a bed from someone who might not have a place to sleep. In fact, why don't you sleep in the Rosary shed in you want to suffer because you should suffer for not thinking of these things. Its a harsh letter but someone needs to put you in your place for all this nonsense and trust you me it is non-sense. Do I love the community? You better believe it, to the point I'm willing to sacrifice both marriage and the rest of my life to be someone I've always been and never realized and that is a tough as nails fighter for Christ, for God who is in Christ and for Mother Teresa and the Virgin Mary who are all enshined with the grip of the Holy Spirit in a way that most of you guys don't understand. All this talk of peace and worship is over played. Sometimes what's needed is a good slap in the face to realize the truth and that's what the community understands. Trust you me I've been there and I even took out a would be preist who thought that intellectualism was more important that life itlsef and he was an idiot, trust you me. I hit him and I suffered the consquence to the point that my mother died while I was thera and trust you me it was hell on earth for nearly two years. Now I have a terrible mental illness as a result and even now I suffer from difficulty in my eye sight because I looking at the sun to look at God. That's how terrible it is. I hate all of this mess and I'm going to realize something very important in all this and that all this non-sense is necessary because that's what God wants in my life. Even if it is non-sense, it is a non-sense that Joyce and Albino, bless their hearts, don't understand at times because of their age. They are a lovely coupl but they need someone with grit to knock some sense into these kids at times because their lives don't have to be this way, trust you me. They are so lovely that I can' t understand how I behave twards them at times and I almost feel compelled to quit this letter because I feel like I'm blabbering. That is the gift of the Holy Spirit John. Acquiescence is the only way, even if it is harsh. Listen to your heart people, it's the only medicine you need and trust you me I am a living testament to me. I have severe Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia, and ADD and I suffered like you wouldn't believe but I understand that God is the only answer to dealing with it in my life, medicine or no medicine. I can't write anymore because my eyes suffer and so I love you in ways you don't understand John but you need to look at yourself with more honesty and no more lies. You're lucky I don't tell you this in person or I would shake becasuse of my timidness, believe you me. You would shake at the violence of it because it's so hard to say sometimes.

Pray John for your salvation because he knows what's in your heart. You need to get a grip on life before you can get a grip on the Community because it is a harsh life and it's the price these kids pay so that someone else may have salvation, believe you me you will get all you can handle if you don't change your attitude because I will be there at every step to make you pay for the bed you take from someone else. I am planning on re-entering but I don't know if Albino will accept me because it is my third time but I will make you pay in thiis forum for not telling the truth, so help me God.

God Bless and excuses me if it was harsh, but that is the community way sometimes and that's what you need to know.

Eteranl Fire bless ths man because he is a good man and bless his soul if it be damned because I pray for him always.

With Love Michael Ammari

Hi Michael, I don't believe that I know either yourself or Jay, but in your disucussion you've addressed, with incredible articulation, a number of issues which had irritated me in Jay's testimonies from earlier posts. The community should not be white-washed. It creates suffering, operates on cruelty, information control and in some cases violence... the majority of its members are 'kids' managing the lives of other kids. As you are apparently attempting to go back in, it can be assumed that you advocate this method as a valid solution which is somewhat paradoxical to all the 'bad stuff' you describe. That stuff is also undeniably 'cultish'. I have more appreciation for your statement "the Community is a place where drug abusers and the mentally ill go due to a lack of love in the community outside." There is a sharp decline in secular programs and options available to individuals with addictions and mental issues or just simple poverty. They do exist though. I'm not tryin to pass judgment, but am really at a loss for what you could hope to accomplish with a 3rd round of that crap. If everyone you seek commraderie or approval from uses the terms "Mary, Holy Sprit, Christ, and God", you either need to believe, talk and act as they do, or go crazy because deep inside you know its bogus.... This is a vital 'first' principle for anyone when a religous solution is presented.

testing

I am writing this on my iPad in the chapel of American Martyrs Catholic Church in Manhattan Beach, CA. This is a church I have spent many years of my adult life in, and this chapel has been a great place of healing in the past. I am writing this here after some long prayer, asking for the Lord to reveal to me what to write, rather than acting on my own.

Please forgive me if there occur any odd misspellings or words entirely out of place. It is the iPad doing this.

First off is the most important thing. I responded to Mike privately in a way that violated everything that the Community teaches. I did not hold myself in and digest it for a few days, allowing anger and any other negative emotions to dissipate. The very night I wrote my first response I heard the words of the Bible ringing in my ears--"Do not let the sun go down on your wrath." Also there is "Pray for your enemies. Do good to those who hurt you." And there is the example of Jesus, who was hurt so much more and yet endured without raising a fist.

I wrote back terrible things. I called him on something I had done a while back for him. This is the worst I feel of what I did, and I want him to know that I confessed that specifically not only here, but to a priest. I also wrote extensively about my own history, alluded to in the first part of my first post on this board, challenging him on the level of suffering I understood about the men in Community. As I know a lot about the pain that the average guy has experienced who enters Cenacolo, I do not believe I was incorrect. However, I was totally wrong in my approach. For all of this I apologize, both personally to him and to the Community.

The matter of me "nearly killing" someone was simply a soccer match where both an opposing player and myself were gunning for the ball at equal speed. We knocked heads and both fell to the ground. He screamed but was uninjured. I didn't scream but was cut above my left eye and had blood going down the side of my face. Several people, including Mike, rushed to the scene. I shook hands with the opposing player and was escorted off the field and taken to the local hospital.

Yesterday I went to Confession for my part in this whole ordeal. The priest, whom I had been to for the first time, is a member of the Oblates of the Blessed Virgin Mary and was ordained by Blessed John Paul II personally. He is a man of great insight. He recommended Mike that I say for you a Divine Mercy Chaplet novena that you may become "a great saint in Heaven." Later I went to see the prolife group that I am normally with on Saturdays, and there were several people there. We all said the Chaplet for this and other intentions. One of them left before I could ask, but I asked the remaining five if they would do the novena along with me. Mike, I read in your first response what you are going through. As a result of our exchange, you now have seven people praying for you. Such is how God works things for good out of conflict.

The priest also recommended that we take this to Albino. Since he was a priest and it was under the Confessional, I have no choice but to approach him about it. I don't want to hate you. I'm not called to hate anybody. And whatever you respond with, or if you do not respond at all, I will continue to pray for you. I know what the struggles are like that the guys go through with God and their families because I've been there. I went through all that for many years and still have to watch out for it. I hope you can forgive me for my response because I was going over and over in my head with all that pain and, well...now I'm getting off of being guided by the Lord here and into self-justification so I'll leave that thought unfinished.

To the parents, if anybody wants to hear about the challenging experiences I had in Community I'll write about them privately to you. It's just that in previous posts I never wrote about them because God healed me of the pain of them in Lourdes and changed almost overnight from negatives to positives. If it wasn't for them my experience in Lourdes would have not been so healing. EVEN THE BROTHERS THEMSELVES, SOME OF WHOM DID LOOK DOWN ON ME AT THE TIME, NOTED THAT WHEN I RETURNED FROM LOURDES I HAD "GREATER CONFIDENCE". I came back and have visited the Community many times since and things with the members, both old and new, have always been great. Mike, other than that one day in Lourdes you've never seen this. You're judging by the past from several years ago. Nothing of what you describe exists anymore and hasn't for years. So yes, I will write in private to anyone who wants to hear, and I will tell how I now am thankful that those things happened. They led to such incredible graces because the power of God is stronger than anything people can do!

I know that Albino is currently indisposed for personal reasons, so I have to wait at least a few weeks.

Yes, I did say I thought we should no longer speak, but I must go first by what the priest says. Also, I am writing this publicly because I said there would be no more private messages and you didn't seem to want them either. I hope that Albino allows you to re-enter, if that is what you wish and need.

God bless to all.

A couple of notes to add to the post I just wrote today. First, it was the idea of the priest in the Confessional for me to post at least the part of my doing the novena here. That way nobody can claim that I am publicly airing any good work. He wanted it to be known that I was doing this.

Secondly, I noticed in an earlier post from a long time ago I posted (and I guess against the rules, but this was never seen by the moderator), an old email contact address (a Juno address). That email is so old I actually don't remember it anymore. If anyone wants to contact me, use the private messaging on this website.

Forgot also to mention the priest in Confession told me to start going to daily Mass. I just passed six months in the new community I am in. With their schedule the only time I can make a daily Mass is 6 AM, unless I want to go to a Vietnamese one and not understand what the heck is being said. The priest said this and right away I'm thinking "Holy smokes!" They have one at St. Peter Chanel and it is doable with my schedule, but it's going to be crazy. It means I have to be up by 5 AM and do the sweeping in the dark tomorrow. That won't usually be the case but it will be for tomorrow because it can't wait until the afternoon. Won't be hard. It's just that I'll be doing it blind. I was hoping to start doing my studies at 5 AM. Oh well.

I should like to answer also another charge. Every time I have ever gone back I have given more in food and supplies than I have taken. And any time I have stayed at one of the houses, it has always been at the invitation of the Community. Half the time I have stayed either in a motel (as in the case when I came with my brother for his orientation) or, more commonly, with a house occupied by a few ex-members, to whom I have always given something in return.