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concernedbro
I am a deeply concerned man, from Ireland, who has seen his younger brother (18) become heavily involved
in right-wing fundamental Christianity. He has began to express an interest in trying to get scholarships to the States
and study theology at Master's in California. The only universities that my family ( being so far away) would have heard of in California
would be Berkeley and UCLA, so I decided to do some research in to 'Master's'/John MacArthur.

Over the last 24 hours I have become more and more concerned. My brother led me to believe that he was only involved in moderate religion, but it seems to me that MacArthur is anything but moderate. His viewpoints upon the world are of a far-right position and some of his teaching is just plain crazy. One of his transcripts online was titled 'Extreme Tolerance'! There are lots of extraordinary speeches and 'teachings' about Harry Potter, C.S Lewis, rock music and even a bizarre attack upon 'Santa Claus Is Coming To Town'! Probably the scariest thing is the rejection of psychology, though. Really, really....off the wall.

All of this smacks of Sarah Palin, involving religion in politics, lunatics thinking Obama is the anti-Christ, that Creation Museum, self-righteous crazies judging everyone...all thinks that we have always had a good chuckle at! Now my brother is involving himself in it!!

We have lots of wonderful universities in Ireland and the U.K ( Trinity, D.C.U, Manchester, UCL etc etc) where my brother, who is a clever lad, could study a degree. Now he has been brain washed by this lot....

Please advise!!!!

You have every right to be concerned. Masters College is very destructive and has ruined lives. It took much time for me to bounce back from what I went through there. Extreme pressure is placed upon new students to go along with all the doctrines, and if you do not you are basically shunned. They try to convert through intense peer pressure. I saw many students turn their backs on their families because they didn't go along with this quack's views. I highly suggest you recommend your brother do more research on Lordship Salvation, Nouthetic Counseling, and any other term they use to describe their beliefs, as they are very extreme and basically lead to a person giving up all their personal freedom and give you a very depressive worldview.

Another trick this college likes to pull is they give very generous scholarships and grants at first to lure you in, and then they become more and more scarce later, prompting the student to have to seek money from loans, grants, family, and other means. I wound up having to get my grandparents to give me thousands of dollars to get me out of hock from these people. It's nothing but a money-making scheme.

Just look at my previous posts on this thread to see what I mean. What real church would make its congregation sign a suicide waver to receive spiritual counseling? I wish you well in getting your brother out of this, I'll definitely keep you in my prayers.

Wow. JM slays the infidels verbally wherever he finds them.

John "Abdullah" MacArthur needs to be exposed. His Lordship salvation has already been exposed, but his personal conduct has not. Churches in my area have been destroyed because of him, including the one where I grew up. They would never have allowed a Jehovah's Witness, a Mormon, a Muslim, or a Roman Catholic traditionalist have positions of authority as pastor or deacons, but they permitted JM's henchmen because they thought JM and his crew of the same mindset regarding the gospel of grace. But they were wrong, and so their church was turned into another output for JM's variant of works salvation.

Lordship salvation is simply works salvation, and JM clearly teaches this.

JM lives as an enemy of Christ.
JM is a control freak.
JM uses humiliation and retaliation as methods of control.
JM teaches that Christians are slaves of Christ, and is very hung up on it.
JM is arrogant.
JM is cruel.
JM is self-important.
JM is just like any other cultist.
JM destroys lives.
JM denies the Lord who bought him.
JM is an empty field, twice dead, bearing thorns and thistles.
According to his own book "Beware the Pretenders", we need to beware JM. The shoe fits.

Mohammed had an agenda: build a harem, so he can molest kids.
JM also has an agenda: strip Christians of blessed assurance.
"Islam" means "submitter".
JM has also founded a society of submitters. He treats them like slaves. One of his books teaches that Christians are slaves of Christ, submitters ("Muslims") to his Lordship.

Wow, I never knew John MacArthur was this far out.

I am a Canadian. I have never met MacArthur nor set foot in his church. I have only listened to his sermons.

I want to weigh in here. I have been absolutely blessed in my walk by John Macarthur's preaching. I have grown much closer to Christ in the last year or so than I ever have, and it has been in large part due to his influence.

Many of the accusations against him are really attacks on caricatures of him. Many people say he espouses a works based salvation. Anyone who listens to him preach on the gospel would hear that he preaches against works righteousness vigorously. People attack him on Lordship Salvation without any understanding of what he actually believes on salvation. The two main websites devoted to the issue (just google John Macarthur and Lordship) take a handful of quotes and make their assessment on those.

He believes that Salvation is a GIFT of god, that it is ALL of grace, plus or minus nothing. It is by God's choice, not the work or effort of man. He gets accused because He says that initial saving faith, repentance, good works, and sanctification are a package deal. He preaches that saving faith NEVER comes apart from repentance and good works, and rightly so. He doesn't ever preach that you should do good works in order to be saved, he preaches that faith comes first, and if that faith is genuine, then the rest follows.

He is accused by people who would have Jesus save them but have no interest in repentance or acknowledging Jesus authority over the believer. To them John says, you have no evidence of true faith if you won't even accept Jesus as LORD. It isn't optional! Jesus IS the LORD JESUS CHRIST, it is repeated throughout scripture. To say Lordship is optional makes no sense. He is Lord of all, like it or not.



As for SLAVES of Christ, I have read that book. Read it before you judge it, I don't know how anybody could read it and still be offended by it.

For slaves in the time of Christ, the quality of your life depended entirely upon the resources and disposition of your master. So to be a slave for the Eternal God who IS LOVE, is an astounding thought. People who were slaves in the courts of royalty in those days were the envy of even free people in those days, so how much greater is it to be a slave of God, who is benevolent and generous?

But he doesn't stop there, he goes on to explain the increasing intimacy with which scripture identifies believers, Slaves, then Freinds of God, and as if that weren't good enough, on to SONS and DAUGHTERS of God. What amazing thoughts! This book inspired me to worship, it greatly enhanced my love for my savior. Don't dismiss this book, those who criticize it, I don't get where you come from. This is a God honoring and worship inspiring book, and it is all taken from what scripture says.

JM is NOT a fan of inventing any theology, he is never interested in preaching or speaking anything other than what the bible says and means. I have heard him say things in his preaching I wouldn't say, but those are few and far between, and like you haven't? There is more of his content on the web than perhaps any other person in the world, (Multiple thousands of hours of speaking and tons of written work) do you think it is going to be air tight? Absoltuely not, he is a sinner just as you and I are. Yet he points to Christ more consistently than any other preacher I know.

I have never met him, I have never been to his church. I do not doubt that he rubs some people the wrong way, it happens to me sometimes too. I don't doubt he has handled certain situations poorly over his life.

To say he is a false teacher and to say he is an ungodly man... nobody alive today has taken a stronger stand for the gospel than he has. Judgment will start with the church, and he will give account for all he has wronged. As for me, I thank God for him, my love for God and understanding of the Gospel has only grown.



I can't weigh in on any of the other topics, but I am quite familiar with the Lordship controversy and SLAVE, and have my personal experience to share.

For those interested in hearing more of what he has to say about the Lordship of Christ, Listen to this, I found it quite valuable in understanding his position.

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isitacult?

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bjw
One good thing was that Macarthur telling me I was saved gave me some ammo against his followers that continously told me I wasn't, but unfortunately that didn't last long. There were still many that kept telling me I was lost.

That is interesting. His followers were more "MacArthurish" than MacArthur! And that makes me wonder if his followers are more cultic than he is himself. Maybe he's unintentionally created a monster and what we see here is the law of unintended consequences? Or maybe he is inconsistent. Maybe he didn't really exactly change his theology with Angelica, but the reality is that the theology that seems so logical and seems to work so well on paper and in the classroom fails when it must be applied in real life. By all rights he should have said you were not saved if you were "unrepentant" in reading Bob George who teaches false doctrine and an allegedly unsaving gospel. He should have at least questioned it until you showed the proper "fruit".

Do you have any ideas on why MacArthur has this kind of effect on people, that his organization would be cultic? What is it about him that causes this? What is the dynamic? And how do you think it was that you were protected from being caught up in it?

Wanted to weigh in on this too, saw it after my first post.

His followers are likely to be more MacArthurish than he is because of his strong personality. People will follow a strong personality, and I think people start to follow him rather than the Christ he preaches. I think he does a great job of preaching Christ, my understanding and walk with Jesus has grown through his preaching. I think because of his strong preaching people forget he is just a man and start to think he has answers to everything, start to exalt him in their mind, making him into more than he really is.

I have had to remind myself more than once that I am a follower of Jesus Christ, not John Macarthur. It can be tough because his theology is biblical and his teaching is usually very good. (Not always) Even when the teaching is right and good, people can still easily fall into the trap of looking to man rather than God.

I have read the last two posts. I did much more than listen to sermons from this MacArthur hundreds of miles away from him. I was a member of his church, attended his college, have been to his mansion, lived in an apartment building/dorm complex owned by him, and was taken for thousands of dollars by him. I can tell you unequivically that his teachings are not biblical in any sense of the term.

The rubbish he puts out is to lure people in so they'll spend thousands of dollars going to his sham college/seminary and church. I've also said before what he really believes is not even in his books or sermons that are sold to the public at large. His definition of grace is not the same as used by the rest of Christianity. Many people have been hurt by this cult, two people have committed suicide, and there's probably many more that we don't even know about yet.

I wish more people would come forward that have been hurt by this cult, been asked to deny medical treatment, separated from their family, ruined financially, or any other of the common abuses inflicted by this so-called church. If enough people come forward, the abuses will stop.

I have written up my story and sent it to various Christian ministries that are considering publishing it, but I chickened out at the last minute and told them to put a hold on it because I'm afraid they will retaliate by legal and other means. When I first left they harassed me real bad and falsely accused me of crimes. I want to make sure I have more people that can corroborate my story and I want to show it to an attorney that can read it and see if anything should be left out.

Like I've said before, if you want to believe this way you have the freedom to believe whatever you want, we live in free countries. However, when you lie about your beliefs to lure people in through false information and force people to deny medical treatment for illnesses and seperate from their families, that is where the line should be drawn.

If you are interested in believing in protestant Christianity, there have been many refutations of MacArthur's doctrines by leading theologians that have no cult activities, like Charles Ryrie. Ryrie's "So Great Salvation" gives a good point-by-point refutation, as does "Faith that Pleases God" by Bob George. Many protestants do not believe in a non-working faith but they haven't gone overboard like MacArthur and formed a false religion. Even Mormonism believes in a system that is saved by grace, works for reward/blessings from God. MacArthur's leanings are closer to Jehovah's Witness doctrine. Basically, MacArthur's teachings are like a twisted combination of Jehovah's Witness (the salvation doctrines), Scientology (the counseling/mental health doctrines), and end-times conspiracy groups. He's taken a "best-of" of the major heresies and made one cult out of it. Since it is flavored with popular mainstream Christian doctrines (trinity, dispensationalism, premillenialism, creationism) he's able to slip it in easily to the unsuspecting public. That's exactly how I fell for it, I was going to a Dutch Reformed Christian high school at the time they sent their recruiter.

John MacArthur has finally completely flipped!

I am still on the cult's mailing list and I received a postcard from The Master's College a few days ago that has a picture of the college's Rutherford Hall (an administration building that houses the on-site offices of both John MacArthur and his secretary Sharon Staats plus the cult's financial offices.) Amazingly, the building has been doctored with computer renderings showing a posh lounge and tower added to the building with a beautifully manicured area in front with shade trees and benches. The building now appears to be twice the size as it was and rival any building that a casino would build. While this would normally not be out of the ordinary, listen to what is on the back of the postcard and what Rutherford Hall has been renamed to, and I changed nothing and used the exact same emphasis that is on the post card with bolds and italics:

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The Master's College
The Legacy Room & Welcome Center will:

Honor John MacArthur's steadfast leadership as President. The 2nd-floor gallery will illustrate John's global influence through The Master's College & Seminary, The Master's Academy International, Grace to You, and his church, Grace Community Church.

Feature a complete collection of first-edition publications by John MacArthur.

House an expanded Biblical Scholars Reference Collection for students, local pastors, and church members.

Illustrate a visual history of The Master's College, beginning with its inception in 1927 and leading up to its current and global reach today.

Provide a hospitable experience for the 2,000 guests who visit us annually.

It is our prayer that the LEGACY ROOM & WELCOME CENTER will serve coming generations of Bible students and believers across the world as a testimony of God's faithfulness. To God be the glory!

Do you realize what this means? He built a museum to himself!!! This should speak volumes about what type of person MacArthur is. I always knew he was arrogant and had an inflated ego, but this goes way beyond anything I even thought he was capable of, and that's saying a lot if you go back and read through what I've said in this thread.

My opinion of the contents of the postcard: I think MacArthur wrote the first five lines and the marketing department (Tatlock, Staats, Roleder, Johnson, etc.) added the last line about God so it wouldn't seem as hard to swallow for the hard-core tithers. The first-edition books are for the more hard-core Lordship/Nouthetic believers as they are the least watered down than the later editions. I can imagine there are more harsher criticisms in these books. The "biblical scholars" he's referring to are usually the teachers at the Seminary, chapel speakers, and others that hold to the Lordship position. He would never put references from non-Lordship believers in there. The "local pastors" referred to are from the churches in the Santa Clarita area that have given over to the Lordship viewpoints. There is a church fair at the beginning of the year where each student must select a temporary "church home" from the available Lordship believing churches. The 1927 date is a total lie, and this cult was not even around back then. Prior to MacArthur acquiring this college it was called "Los Angeles Baptist College" or LABC and was not on the Lordship bandwagon until it was basically just made an extension campus for MacArthur.

Let's just hope that this will make people wake up to the fact that only someone with serious mental problems would build a museum to themselves. I hope people will see this and stop contributing to this cult and that no more people will be hurt by being forced to forego medical treatment that could be lifesaving.

jasonc65, bjw, isitacult and the others here in this blog.

I have read this thread and I find the accusations being made here are simply opinions without any proof or substance to back up the accusations being made, simply fools airing their own opinion.

My challenge to all of you is please post what you believe the gospel is....and why.

Please remember this teaching from Jesus:
Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

Trust me, it is so easy to look at someone else and not consider the log or plank in my own eye. Oh how many times I have spoken out of turn and or voiced my opinion only to learn that I misunderstood someone in the first place. I should have been asking questions instead of making accusations.

Be very careful there are proper ways Christian's should address fellow Christian's, posting things publicly when they should be address privately....that's not biblical example that we see.

"He who separates himself seeks his own desire,
He quarrels against all sound wisdom.
A fool does not delight in understanding,
But only in revealing his own mind." Prov 18

Please don't lose sight of Jesus, His teachings, or the Cross!!

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BraveHeart
jasonc65, bjw, isitacult and the others here in this blog.

I have read this thread and I find the accusations being made here are simply opinions without any proof or substance to back up the accusations being made, simply fools airing their own opinion.

My challenge to all of you is please post what you believe the gospel is....and why.

Please remember this teaching from Jesus:
Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

Trust me, it is so easy to look at someone else and not consider the log or plank in my own eye. Oh how many times I have spoken out of turn and or voiced my opinion only to learn that I misunderstood someone in the first place. I should have been asking questions instead of making accusations.

Be very careful there are proper ways Christian's should address fellow Christian's, posting things publicly when they should be address privately....that's not biblical example that we see.

"He who separates himself seeks his own desire,
He quarrels against all sound wisdom.
A fool does not delight in understanding,
But only in revealing his own mind." Prov 18

Please don't lose sight of Jesus, His teachings, or the Cross!!

This thread is not about Jesus or the Gospel, it is entitled "Ex members of John MacArthur's church." I have already explained how John MacArthur's teachings are contrary to mainstream Christianity, how families have been torn apart, friendships ruined, and people being taken in by this cult. However, leaving my opinions aside, let's look at the facts about GCC that are not my opinion:
1. There have been two high profile suicides by people that have been in the care of Nouthetic Counselors at GCC. (One is mentioned in MacArthur's book "Our Sufficiency in Christ," the other, Angelica Ericsson, was mentioned in many newspapers in the LA area in 1996)
2. MacArthur believes that psychiatry (a scientifically proven medical science found at every clinic in the world) is evil and is involved in a plot with evolutionists to infiltrate Christianity.
3. People are shunned by church members as punishment if they committ the same sin 3 times (called stumbling by the cult, see "Restoration Process" in any Student Life handbook published by the cult.)
4. People must sign a waver saying that if they are injured or committ suicide in the care of the church's Nouthetic Counselors GCC and MacArthur cannot be sued.
5. Salvation is realized only through obeying a list of commands where evidence must be constantly evidenced in your life, with constant improvement, or you are not saved. (See the MacArthur Study Bible, "Character of Genuine Saving Faith")
6. Depression and anxiety as well as other repeated problems in your life are caused by unconfessed sin, and you must tell a counselor intimate details of your past to look through your life to find the unconfessed sin you overlooked. These details are not kept confidential and are shared with church leadership.
7. Friends must report on each other in counseling sessions. (See "Restoration Process" in any church/college handbook or manual)
8. The Catholic church is Satanic and is the whore of Babylon mentioned in the Book of Revelation.
9. If any friends or family disagree with the cult's teachings you must disassociate from them (the cult calls it treating them as a pagan or tax collector, see "Restoration Process" in any of their handbooks)

Let me reitirate, this has nothing to do with Christianity, the Gospel, or any other religion. I don't care if he themed his cult to Bhuddism, these things would still be just plain wrong and prove this is a cult. I was swindled out of thousands of dollars by them, and had to go to many hours of seeing a psychiatrist afterwards to be deprogrammed, and my psychiatrist (at Kaiser Permanente) said he recognized elements of L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics and Scientology right away when he examined MacArthur's crap.

This has nothing to do with what anybody thinks the Gospel is or isn't. If something is morally wrong it is morally wrong. What happened to me there, and other people I know, is morally wrong. They should also let people know what they are getting into before they join. The recruiter that came to my high school was very dishonest with how he got me to join. That is morally wrong.

Also, let me add that the way those that defend MacArthur on this forum is typical with how they do, rejecting MacArthur is always equated with rejecting Jesus or the Gospel. This should prove the point I was trying to make. Their logic is:
John MacArthur was called by God to preach.
He went to Bible college.
He studied Greek and Hebrew and knows advanced hermeneutics.
He is led by the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, his doctrines are Biblical and are inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, he should lead a large church and college.
Therefore, rejecting his church, college, or teachings is rejecting God, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, these people that reject these things are lost.

Believe it or not, I once had a roommate in the dorms tell me that amillenialist are lost because MacArthur is premil and is led by the Spirit, and two people that have the Spirit cannot have conflicting opinions. His followers cannot separate MacArthur from the Gospel. The two are synonomous with them and its either all-or-nothing. Either you agree with MacArthur or you reject the Gospel, it can't be both ways. So, thank you MacArthur supporters on here for proving my point.

A Message to those on the boards:
I am still interested in being contacted by others that have been hurt by the cult. I would like to try to get a support group going for people trapped in that are trying to get out and those that have had families separated, bankruptcy, etc. I know I sure could have used that the last year I was trapped in, I didn't know what to do. People need some kind of legal advice and a support group to get them back on their feet, so please, if you have been hurt by them contact me. Even though it was years ago that it happened to me, I know it must be still going on, and there is an opportunity to help others that have been hurt and stopping others from being hurt.

If you're trapped in now and you have stumbled onto this, get psychiatric help, leave immediately and go home to your family, demand any money back you have paid, and don't listen to any of their threats about you not being saved or them taking you to court. If you are still interested in practicing Christianity, there are many alternatives out there that do not take control of your life and are closer to what the Bible actually teaches.

bjw,
I'm sorry but I am having a hard time following you in your arguments, as they are creating a lot of confusion, to fully understand your accusations you are making. I'm in the Sacramento area and I'm still looking for a good church. I'm not really interested in getting into a personal attack especially someone I have only heard of, but don't know.
Maybe we should take a step back and establish some foundational understanding starting with;

How are you defining a cult?

What is a cult vs. what is a church?

To you what is the gospel?

What is Salvation? and why? Salvation from what?

What are the essentials of the Christian faith?

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bjw
If you are still interested in practicing Christianity, there are many alternatives out there that do not take control of your life and are closer to what the Bible actually teaches.

ok, what suggestions would you recommend that are "closer to what the Bible actually teaches"?