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mhbm
Another similarity is that she pleads with me to repent, but I get the strong impression that I must repent to her, which would be like confessing to a priest, wouldn't it?

I think this is one example of where the pride-inducing heresy of Calvanism/MacArthurism manifests itself. Many times when I encounter a MacArthur-idolater, I feel like I'm talking to someone who has placed themselves on a pedestal. I feel like I'm being talked down to. I HATE IT!

"Pride comes before a fall", is a Bible verse that comes to mind. I don't take delight knowing that fact, but, if these people don't repent of their Calvanism/MacArthurism, they WILL fall.

I've had the same experience. They are very judgmental, very critical. The joy, spontaneity, creativity, and sense of humor in my daughter is nowhere to be seen anymore since she joined that church.

mhbm, I'm so sorry to hear of what's happening with your daughter. I was just like your daughter not too long ago, and by the grace of God the Holy Spirit revealed my error to me and helped me rediscover my freedom in Christ, along with my creativity and sense of humor. Don't give up hope. Keep praying for her and reaching out to her in love. Try not to criticize because that will only reinforce in her mind that she is the righteous one. I'll be praying for you both.

Lass o' the Glen, thank you so much for your words of encouragement. A couple years ago, when we were having a not-so-pleasant phone conversation, she stated, "I'm not in a cult." I had not said anything about her being in a cult at that time, and I really didn't think she was then, but I could tell that GCC was having an affect on her views. Is it the right thing to do to confront her about being in a cult, or is this a thing that would cause a MacArthurite to be even more intransigent? She has a naturally inquisitive mind and does tend to look things up to get more educated on things.

I am indeed praying for her daily. I have found it difficult in the last few weeks to contact her at all, as it always deteriorates into a criticism/judgment/condemnation session. which I don't want to be a part of. I am praying Isaiah 49:25 over the situation. "I will contend with him that contends with you, and I will save your children."

Hi mhbm,

Heres a good definition:

"Destructive cults, groups, movements and/or leaders "maintain intense allegiance through the arguments of their ideology, and through social and psychological pressures and practices that, intentionally or not, amount to conditioning techniques that constrict attention, limit personal relationships, and devalue reasoning."

-- Margaret Singer, Ph.D.

If you could convince her to look up what cult like groups do, she has a good chance of getting out.

I wanted to comment on Mark S. comments on calvinism, as being destructive, I am in total agreement with him,
even tho I said John Macarthurs practices are like catholicism, ( the inquisition) he is in fact a calvinist,
one of the main tenants of calvinism is that people are totally depraved -
EVEN AFTER BEING REGENERATE, OR BORN AGAIN!
The calvinists these days dont like to talk about it, but it IS what they believe, if they would look it up.

This is not a "little detail" the calvinist leaves out...but it does beg the question...?
Why does any Totally Depraved person have the right to be preaching to you?
You might ask her that.

Praying for your daughter.

gtw?

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mhbm
Lass o' the Glen, thank you so much for your words of encouragement. A couple years ago, when we were having a not-so-pleasant phone conversation, she stated, "I'm not in a cult." I had not said anything about her being in a cult at that time, and I really didn't think she was then, but I could tell that GCC was having an affect on her views. Is it the right thing to do to confront her about being in a cult, or is this a thing that would cause a MacArthurite to be even more intransigent? She has a naturally inquisitive mind and does tend to look things up to get more educated on things.

I am indeed praying for her daily. I have found it difficult in the last few weeks to contact her at all, as it always deteriorates into a criticism/judgment/condemnation session. which I don't want to be a part of. I am praying Isaiah 49:25 over the situation. "I will contend with him that contends with you, and I will save your children."

I would strongly recommend you don't accuse it of being a cult when confronting her. In my experience, when they are confronted with GCC being a cult they usually will block out anything else that is said. Remember that when they have accepted Lordship Salvation they believe all of Christianity is teaching a watered-down salvation, and the second you refer to them as a cult you are dumped into the "non-lordship" category, and no matter what you say it will be disregarded.

If there were a way you could show the similarities between GCC and Scientology, the flaws in the Restoration Process & Counseling doctrines, how the counseling has failed to cure mental illnesses, why other theologians have rejected Lordship Salvation, MacArthur's denial of the atonement of Christ, MacArthur's acceptance of some Calvinistic doctrines and the fact that Calvin was a murderer, etc.

Remember many who get caught up in this cult have not been exposed to any Christianity in the past. Also, it is a very slow mind-control process that they use. The whole thing is not revealed up-front, or people wouldn't join. At first they start by using buzzwords from mainstream Christianity like grace, eternal security, etc. Remember your daughter may not have been exposed to the whole thing yet and she may later realize that it is not what it initially appeared to be. See if she knows why MacArthur opposes Catholocism, what the full implications of end-times conspiracy theories are, and how that affects your salvation in light of the Bible verses mentioned. Why should you have to repent or receive counseling because you work for Catholics? If you are eternally secure why should you have to go through a restoration process to get God to recognize you as a believer and not turn His back on you?

These are things that could potentially get her to start doubting MacArthur. Make no mistake about it, it is definitely a cult. It is designed to eventually get you to give up all your money and time and become a total slave. Members join under high pressure tactics, get others to join, use confrontation to pressure people that have to be "restored," sign up for expensive classes to get degrees to spread the doctrines to get other to join. It is a vicious cycle that needs to be stopped.

hi all,the idea for an informative awareness web is developing but we really need people to help us.you will remain anonymous but we need people to write experiences and truth.please think about being part of this!

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teacher
hi all,the idea for an informative awareness web is developing but we really need people to help us.you will remain anonymous but we need people to write experiences and truth.please think about being part of this!

This is one thing that has stopped me from speaking out or starting a website or blog. It is hard to remain anonomous these days, and the risk of retaliation is always there. I know what I went through when I left (read some of the previous posts on this thread about some of the harassment) and I wouldn't go through that again for anything. Litigation as well as personal confrontation from current members is always a possibility.

Always try to remain anonomous as much as possible and only give your name when you truly trust a person. When talking about your past experiences always make sure the connections in your story can provide only "circumstantial" proof of who you are and not provide a definite connection.

mhbm -- It's been my experience that attempts to dissuade MacArthur followers from believing the false teaching only causes them to hang on tighter to it. They are convinced that they alone possess God's truth, and that anyone who doesn't believe as they do is a false Christian. I myself was very stubborn in this regard, to which my family and friends can attest. If your daughter likes to research things, you might ask her to look into MacArthur's close association with C.J. Mahaney in light of the pending SGM sex abuse lawsuit. You could also ask her about MacArthur's inviting Douglas Wilson, a self-described paleo-Confederate and Federal Vision theology apologist, to speak at The Master's College Creation Symposium this Saturday. The Holy Spirit used my own investigations into these and other MacArthur associations to open my eyes and help me break free.

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Lass o' the Glen
mhbm -- It's been my experience that attempts to dissuade MacArthur followers from believing the false teaching only causes them to hang on tighter to it. They are convinced that they alone possess God's truth, and that anyone who doesn't believe as they do is a false Christian. I myself was very stubborn in this regard, to which my family and friends can attest. If your daughter likes to research things, you might ask her to look into MacArthur's close association with C.J. Mahaney in light of the pending SGM sex abuse lawsuit. You could also ask her about MacArthur's inviting Douglas Wilson, a self-described paleo-Confederate and Federal Vision theology apologist, to speak at The Master's College Creation Symposium this Saturday. The Holy Spirit used my own investigations into these and other MacArthur associations to open my eyes and help me break free.

Mnbm, I would tend to agree with LOTG, his close association to CJ Mahaney is hypocrisy in the highest, as Mahaney has covered up for so many sexual preverts in his organization, the real kicker is that John Macarthur Does Not believe in spiritual gifts and condemns those that do as -Deluded, or Demon possessed, in his book Charismatic Chaos.

So why does CJ Mahaney get a pass?

There is no answer for this extreme hypocrisy.

I tend to give people unbiased information about the false belief system or destructive church groups so they can make an informed decision, not based on my own opinion.
Scientology is a secular humanistic cult, so it really is not a good comparision, nor can plumbing the depths of that kooky group be helpful to convince your daughter of its similarities to JM.

Links to follow about CJ Mahaney and Chrismatic Chaos quotes to follow.

gtw?