Hi Frank-

I see I managed to scroll right past your post more than once so I didn't see it until now. My apologies for the delay in response!

Thank you for your gracious assessment of your experience. I appreciate that you shared it.

I do want to emphasize that I am not here to 1) evangelize on this forum; 2) debate Lordship Salvation. (I do not agree with the Lordship Salvation way of sharing the gospel, so unfortunately, any discussion on that topic with me would degenerate into a debate.)

It is really more the relational dynamic issue that I am investigating. Not so much GCC's doctrines, per se, though I realize there is usually a correlation between the two.

Dear "isitacult?" and your partner "pastrpath2-"
You guys have intrigued me with this thread, since you have posted this I have gone out and listed to several of John McArthur's teachings and since read a his book "Romans: Grace, Truth And Redemption".

I have to say from an orthodox Christian view point and a historically accurate theological point of view I find NO False Teachings or Cult Like tendency in John MacArthur's teachings or preaching.
In fact I find John MacArthur to be a shinning Light in the sea of apostate pastors and false teachers.

I would conclude that what you are doing here in this thread is a vapid attempt to slander a good pastor and bible teacher.
I will back that statement up with this, Please take a look at this video:
[vodpod.com]
the points that John makes in this video are accurate, honest, and most of all biblical!!!!!

you see guys without "Fundamental Systemic Theology" people do go sideways and you end up with false teachings, cults and heretics.

I would highly suggest you getting "Drive By Theology" by Todd Friel & R. W. Glenn this is a collection of 48- 15 minuet lectures that will help anybody with understanding what the Bible teaches.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion.

Thank you for your response.

However, I will remind the reader that I am asking what it is like IN HIS CHURCH, not what his theology is.

Once again isitacult?
according to what you have posted you're simply digging here. you have NO first hand experiance or personal testimony to back up your alligations and it appears you could cair less if you slander a good mans reputation.

Braveheart-

I can see you insist on having the last word on this. Fine. Whatever you say next will be the last word that you and I will have because I am done dealing with you. This is my last word to you. I cannot possibly do anything more than repeat myself anyway and you refuse to hear me so there is no point in continuing. I am clearly not going to satisfy you. No matter what I or anyone else says, you will only persist in accusing me of horrible things, which is the same place that you started.

In spite of your lack of information on MacArthur [before you spent the last 2 months listening to his preaching and his friends so you could come back and post again on this thread (that has not seen any activity in all that time and is not even an active conversation anymore) that since his doctrine seems to you to be correct everything else must be too so I am just digging up dirt to discredit a good man- the same position you held when you did not know much about John MacArthur at all]. You have set yourself up to be the guard dog of his reputation. When you saw that I had posted a series of questions that in your mind could not possibly have any validity in spite of the fact that you knew almost nothing about MacArthur, you PM ed me right away to make sure I knew I seemed to be in error to ask these questions about him. When I didn't respond, that only further cemented in your mind that I am some horrible fiend who wants to slander a good man and posted another PM in like vein, this time including pastorpath's comments which, even if I could have responded to you via PM, I had no way of accounting for as they were his comments and not mine (that never did make any sense to me why you felt I should be able to speak for him. You should have PM ed him on that.) It was not until I reminded you that there is a 10 post minimum on PM privilege that you began dealing with me out in the open. Yet you still persisted in your accusing tone, accusing me of the most outrageous things- like being a troll and now slander! Even after 3 pages of discourse you still cannot seem to understand that this good man has in fact been the cause of pain and harm to others. In spite of my explanations of my reasons for asking questions I still somehow don't have any justification for inquiring because I don't have any personal experience. You just don't seem to get that it is OTHER PEOPLE'S personal experience I am interested in. It is PRECISELY BECAUSE I do not have personal experience of attending his church and have no way of verifying the accounts I have heard from OTHER PASTORS who have called him cultic that I want to know from those who do have first hand experience at his church whether there is anything to it. I have said this already at least once before and will not say it again. You are accusing my of slander when I am trying to get the facts straight by listening to other people talk.

Yet, even when someone who does meet your qualification of having personal experience posts a negative account about GCC, he too is to be discredited. Apparently anyone who says anything about John MacArthur/GCC that is not totally favorable is just plain wrong regardless of whether they have personal experience, and is going to hear it from you, regardless that YOU not only don't have personal experience but you don't even know much about him, except 2 months exposure to his internet teachings, and that exposure gained recently. You are creating an environment that is threatening for anyone who does not see this thing your way. It is not even redemptive, just hostile.

Braveheart, I do not think I have heard any anti MacArthur apologists that were more convincing than you. If I had to take only what you yourself have demonstrated by your tone, behavior, and your presumptuous accusations as evidence for how people are treated in John MacArthur's church I would run away from him as fast as I could go. The only thing that keeps you from having singlehandedly driven his reputation into the dust by your tactics here, as far as I am concerned, is your beginning statement that you did not know much about him. Therefore you have been more representative of yourself than him.

I have been trying very hard to be as fair as I possibly can under the circumstances. You have made that very difficult. Therefore, in an effort to continue being fair, I am going to ignore any posts you make here. If I come here and see a post that is from you I am not even going to read it.

For everyone else, I will read and respond to posts from people with personal experience with Grace Community Church. I am still interested in BOTH positive AND negative accounts. Please keep any comments civil and fact based. Any other badgering/accusing posts from anyone will just be ignored. Do not expect a response.

(I trust anyone who may need assurance that I am legitimate can determine that for yourself by reading through the thread.)

Grew up going to this church. I support you "isitacult". I don't really care about McArthur's theology, other than to say that it was mostly radical right-wing nutjob stuff.

McArthur's theology is green. Money, moolah, benjamins.

Still remember these almost exact words from the last time I attended a service.

"It's so wonderful to be here today... to bask in the words of the Lord... but that's not why we're here.
It's so wonderful to be here with our kids, our grandkids, our husbands and wives... but that's not why we're here.
There is a good reason that we're here today, to best glorify our relationship with the Lord... and that is THE OFFERING!"

Other things to consider:

1. Robert Vernon, disgraced and fired County Sherriff, was (and is?) a high-ranking member of the Church. He was fired partly for trying to purge the Dept. of all non-Christians and make sure that the only believers would advance were right-wing evangelicals.


[articles.latimes.com]

2. Only church in America to be sued for the suicide of a member.

Anyone can come onto this web site and make a statement without ever backing it up You can make an innuendo, hearsay and rumors. You can even judge the people without any evidence or proof. My concern with this thread is your hidden agenda.

I would like for you all to view this video called "Bull Horn Guy"
[video.google.com]#

Interesting point of view...right??

Now watch s this one called "Bull Whip Guy"
[www.youtube.com]

OK who's approach or presentation was right?
the first video or the second one?

Here is the text from that actual Bull Whip story
After this Jesus went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples. There they stayed for a few days.

When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."

Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?"

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name. But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. He did not need man's testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Now here is another video to watch and considder.
[www.youtube.com] Part #1

[www.youtube.com] Part #2

Uh, Rick, maybe it's time for the old

"Cultnews forum is not for proselytizing, etc." message for Mr. Braveheart?

Quote
BraveHeart
Anyone can come onto this web site and make a statement without ever backing it up You can make an innuendo, hearsay and rumors. You can even judge the people without any evidence or proof. My concern with this thread is your hidden agenda.

I would like for you all to view this video called "Bull Horn Guy"
[video.google.com]#

Interesting point of view...right??

Now watch s this one called "Bull Whip Guy"
[www.youtube.com]

OK who's approach or presentation was right?
the first video or the second one?

Dude Stick to the context of the discussion here the topic is a clever question cleverly posed each time istacult posts? by the way this is brilliant use of his handle!
What I am simply bringing to the table for discussion is a contrast of the similar message in order to Juxtapose (or to compare) the difference of conclusion when looking at the facts and evidence i.e. the Bible.

If you find that officiate then you are intellectually beyond a willingness to discover the real truth.

Regarding the first video I would like to hear your comments:

Then after watching the second video what are your thoughts.

In no way am I trying to proselytize you if you I am trying to get you to think out side of the box (see the big picture).