This submission to authorities topic has raised a question in my mind. Does MacArthur advise people about how to vote in a presidential election say?

It appears he gives general consevative influence
just short of endorsing anybody, except he did
a youtube dissertation on
"why it's ok for Christians to vote for
Mormons".

But Actually John Macarthur doesn't care if its Hitler or Stalin
as long as you SUBMIT to them, you shall be
safe guarded against going to hell, Phew!!!

( I was really worried about that! *rolling eyes*)

Why would anyone sit and listen to John Macarthur,
concerning good and evil?

According to John MacArthur's own teaching he would
have Corrie Ten Boom in hell.

The truth is Christendoms cowards have always
gone along with evil tyrants, to save their own skin.

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Lass o' the Glen
You have to give JM credit for following his own argument to its logical conclusion. He's all about obeying authorities, even evil, tyrannical, murdering ones. This is why people I know who attend GCC believe that the Founding Fathers sinned by declaring independence from Great Britain and fighting the Revolutionary War. This must be why JM sees nothing wrong in associating with Douglas Wilson, whose book Black and Tan is a pro-slavery, anti-abolitionist, anti-Civil War treatise. This is what happens to people's minds when their god is theological determinism.

IMO, whether or not JM has a big house is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that he and other pastors like him are twisting scriptures, exercising unbiblical authority over people and placing spiritual burdens on them that Christ never intended. He needs to be held accountable for this.

IMB(bombastic)O, I think that MacA may have left Bob Jones University (he attended BEFORE Blacks were admitted) but Bob Jones University has never left him. His philosophy of unquestioning, stupid-obediance is going to lead people OUT of the will of God.

No offence, but I think whether or not he has a big "mansion" is very relevant, as mucho possessions can be a sign of mucho greed. If he is lambasting the Word of Faith fools, yet has a huge estate himself, it's just another indicator that he condemns to get the spotlight off himself. It ain't gonna work. Godspeed to more people "disobeying" MacA, and raising their voices in protest!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2013 05:33AM by Mark Scheiderer.

I think "CAIAPHAS" would be a good nickname for MacA.

Did he ever have to actually work anywhere for a living at any time in his life? He exudes an attitude of entitlement, so I'm thinking he's had a soft life.

What's his wife like? A submissive "little woman" ? Or "the queen"?

Any idea if his goons know about this discussion?

Hi Mark,

I am using JMs full name in my posts, so that when people google
anything about him our discussions will come up.

As to whether his wife is this or that or his house size or
calling his people goons, I would humbly ask you to
remember we are trying to reach these people who are in
this horrible bondage,
some of them are sweet people, I love them dearly and I think
calling them all goons is not conducive to the discussion.

I am making some bold statements concerning the logical
conclusions of his condemnation theology in hopes that some of
his followers will wake up and get out.

Being the wife of JM must be a horrible job so I am truly sad for her.

He's sold lots of books so he's entitled to whatever mansions in this
world he wants, but it is only in this life, his eternal destiny
my be much more uncomfortably, and I say that in all seriousness
and without malice.

Very Truly yours,

gtw?

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mhbm
This submission to authorities topic has raised a question in my mind. Does MacArthur advise people about how to vote in a presidential election say?

I can answer this. During the 2 years I was in the cult, I remember those who did not vote Republican being subjected to the Restoration Process. So, in that respect, yes, they did control who you voted for. Further, chapel speakers would encourage candidates. Now, my experience may be different because I lived on cult property, so I can't speak for everybody.

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gracetowho?
Hi Mark,

As to whether his wife is this or that or his house size or
calling his people goons, I would humbly ask you to
remember we are trying to reach these people who are in
this horrible bondage,
some of them are sweet people, I love them dearly and I think
calling them all goons is not conducive to the discussion.

I am making some bold statements concerning the logical
conclusions of his condemnation theology in hopes that some of
his followers will wake up and get out.

I too hope people will learn the truth and get out, I wish the museum thing would make people wake up, as well as other actions of this cult. The problem is that they are very good at slowly indoctrinating people and not springing all of the doctrine on a person at once.

I do not believe that the members of the cult itself are "goons" but are victims that are deserving of our sympathy. However, the accomplices that are running the scam alongside MacArthur are definitely "goons" and the cult itself is definitely criminal.

The problem is people are trying to classify this as a "Christian church." It is not. It is an authoritarian counseling cult. Counseling cults were all the rage back in the 1960s when Pop Psychology was moving to the forefront. Groups like Scientology, Landmark Forum, Advanced Ability Center, etc. People were looking for alternatives to psychology. These organizations offered alternative forms of counseling along with an organization for people with a common interest.

The only difference with GCC/MacArthur is that it is a counseling cult that hides behind a veneer of protestant Christianity. It basically has a blend of mainstream Christian doctrines like premillenialism, some Calvinism, dispensationalism, creationism, etc.

GCC/Masters has an elaborate counseling program designed by the techniques of John MacArthur, Wayne Mack, David Harrell, and other accomplices that is very similar to Scientology and has all of the characteristics of this type of group. They use slow indoctrination, disconnection/shunning, confession to a counselor, retaliation against those that want out, authoritarianism, etc. These types of organizations always have an elite group of followers that do the bidding for the upper management, that are completely brainwashed on all of the philosophies. These are the "goons," and they are the ones that would do anything, even illegal, to help the organization. I would say the Wow Staffers would definitely be considered "goons."

Remember, it is the followers running the organization that are the goons. It is the victims that we are trying to help. Many may need help escaping, some have given up everything they own or all their savings to go to college and going back home is not an option, some have family that are trapped in and they will lose all of their family relationships if they leave, some have been convinced they are going to hell and know something is wrong with those around them but don't know what to do, some have family that will believe all of the church's lies about why they are leaving the school and won't want them to leave (this was kinda my situation), some are in and have been denied psychiatric treatment for emotional disorders or denied psychiatric medications that could be life-saving (which is affecting their emotional state), and some are totally innocent and can't believe this organization would ever do anything illegal or unethical.

Remember, it is the followers RUNNING the organization that are the goons. It is the victims that we are trying to help. Many may need help escaping, some have given up everything they own or all their savings to go to college and going back home is not an option, some have family that are trapped in and they will lose all of their family relationships if they leave, some have been convinced they are going to hell and know something is wrong with those around them but don't know what to do, some have family that will believe all of the church's lies about why they are leaving the school and won't want them to leave (this was kinda my situation), some are in and have been denied psychiatric treatment for emotional disorders or denied psychiatric medications that could be life-saving (which is affecting their emotional state), and some are totally innocent and can't believe this organization would ever do anything illegal or unethical.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

...As I said the ones on the lower rungs are the slaves, without rights, without eternal security,
without medical care for mental disorders. Condemned.

I disagree with your assertion that this is a secular humanistic cult , like scientology or Landmark, as I once was in one.
The philosophy in these cults is that you can be as sinful as you want,
and the only god is yourself, as " we create our own reality".
As long as you are true to your own set of values.
Yes they do have the psychbabble component and enslavement, but all dictators have similiar methods.

As I mentioned to Mark, we need to be careful to have a surgically sound discussion, comparing apples to apples,
Otherwise a JM follower would just tune out, AND I do believe many are Christians in that organization.

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gracetowho?
As I mentioned to Mark, we need to be careful to have a surgically sound discussion, comparing apples to apples,
Otherwise a JM follower would just tune out, AND I do believe many are Christians in that organization.

Yes, gtw?, I also think this is very important. Innocent believers find their way into JM's teachings through their genuine desire to love God and His Church. For their sake we must make our arguments with great clarity and precision. Nouthetic counseling is an aberrant counseling method and bjw is right to criticize it, but its roots lay deep within the hubris of JM's patriarchal fundamentalist authoritarianism, which IMO should be the main focus of criticism.

JM's network operates as if God grants a special measure of grace and authority to pastors JM has trained. This goes against what the Bible clearly teaches about the Holy Spirit and the priesthood of all believers. TMS reinforces this spiritual elitism. When a TMS pastor is puffed up with scriptural knowledge and the belief that God has uniquely anointed him with authority, it won't be long before he thinks he has the right to dictate to and sit in judgment of his spiritually inferior fellow believers. TMS pastors impress people with their knowledge and cause believers to doubt their Holy Spirit guided understanding of the Scriptures. I would even go so far as to say that these pastors impose themselves between believers and the Spirit. They routinely assert that theirs is the only valid interpretation, and anyone who doesn't hold to their interpretation is hellbound. They insist we can't be trusted with interpreting the Bible for ourselves because our hearts are wicked and easily deceived. This implies that they believe that their own hearts are not.

This teaching causes great fear and more than a little cognitive dissonance in anyone who can still hear the Spirit and desires to walk with God. This dissonance leads to despair and self-condemnation, and the believer is crushed under the spiritual and emotional burden placed upon him. He has two choices: remain in the JM network and slap a *happy*shiny*face* over his self-doubt and despair, or make a run for the border. Making a run for it is often easier said than done because all the believer's familial and social connections are usually tied into the church, so many sit and suffer in silence.

The other side of the coin are those believers who for whatever reason find affirmation and personal satisfaction in their affiliation with JM. Whether they too are operating from spiritual pride or merely practicing celebrity pastor worship, I'm not certain. I do know that the people I personally know who attend GCC are some of the most anxious, pessimistic and joyless people I've ever met. I feel sorry for them. Which is why I'm here.

Very well said, Lass o the glen,

Thats why im here too!

Thank you!

gtw?