sbruer, i got nothing more to say to you. you attack. and then you say, 'i'm not attacking anyone.' i was going into this lively exchange of ideas with an open heart and mind. but this has crushed me. crushed again by more people who bear the standard of ace. so disappointed. if my ace tie was a real tie and not a clip-on, i probably would have already hanged myself with it.

it is my understanding that the purpose of this forum is to provide support for those who have been subjected to hostile environments such as ace and to find recovery. your comments have not been beneficial to my recovery. i could attack you for many of your comments. but i choose not to.

with such an emphatic denial of the truth, how can i believe a word of any of your postings? your attacks are not gonna win anyone over to your cause. remember the cartoon with mr. friendson admonished reginald upright for being such a punk to pudge meekway and warned, 'if the honeybee went around stinging everybody, there would be no honey.' know your material. and know your material.

i can take the conversation. in fact, i welcome it. but not personal attacks. and i refuse to put up with lies. sbruer, you have overstepped your bounds. i now consider your comments on any of my postings unfriendly and unwelcome. thank you in advance for not commenting on my past or any of my future postings on culteducation.com. you are dismissed.

sincerely,
databass2001

My brother (2 yes younger) and I are survivors of the A.C.E program. We went to a church school from 3rd grade to 8th grade. It was horrible. I don't know about all kids but my brother and I were not prepared to live and work by ourselves. I thought the pace system of learning wasn't the best way to teach, for my brother and I. Goal setting and completion of the set goals is a great idea but we needed pushing and prodding and punishment for not completing those goals. That didn't happen. The teacher and aids at the school didn't keep track of our progression enough to keep us from falling behind so we would be in the proper grade when we transferrd to a high school. The method of teaching also didn't teach us how to learn in a regular classroom situation. So when I got to high school, I had a VERY hard time my freshman year.

2 years before I was to transfer to a Christian high school, the head teacher called a teachers conference with my parents. That's when my parents found out I was 2 years behind the grade level I was suppose to be at and my brother was 3 grades behind. My father was furious. He wanted to know why the school hadn't let him know when we started falling behind when it started happening. All he knew was what was on our report cards and all was good. No answer was given except that the teachers thought we would eventually catch up. When they hadn't seen enough progress, they decided a consult was warrented. Dad was even more furious. I figure 1. he was furious at the school for their lack of attention to the students and 2. Mad at himself for putting my bro and I in that situation in the first place. By the end of the parent/teacher conference Dad had all the numbers of the paces by subject listed on a sheet of paper that my bro and I needed to complete in the years we had left before transfering to high school. I had 4 yrs of work to to in 2 years. That meant, 2 yrs of back work plus the 2 current yrs. What work. Those were the worst yrs of my schooling. I had to go to summer school both yrs just to get it all done. Of course I made the equivalent of D's on each pace test since I was completing them at such a fast rate. As you all know, paces are graded in percentages, so a D is 80%.

By the time I finished those two excrutiating 2 yrs I didn't know what to expect. I was going to a new school with regular classrooms and regular teaching. That first yr was very hard. I didn't know how to learn in that type of atmosphere. I also hadn't learned competitavness, so those teachers grading on a curve made me feel really bad for bringing down the class grade as a whole. Once a parent/teachers conference was called and my parents told my teachers what type of schooling I had had, they understood perfectly what was going on.

My brother had a harder time than me at first but he managed, as I did and we graduated middle of the class.

Looking back, one of the most important things I think the ACE method of learning doesn't teach, is retention. In high school I had midterms and finals. In the ACE curriculum, you don't have those. You don't get tested on what you should have learned midway through a school yr or at the end. One does a pace, passes the test and can forget what they learned.

The one and only thing I think paces are good for is to supliment regular schooling. 1 person in my junior year wasn't doing well in school at all. In order not to hold her back and redo the grade, she took summer school at my high school and did it with 1 teacher and the pace system. Worked out well.

I am shocked and saddened by the way this education system was abused and how mistreated many of you were. I was introduced to the PACE system in first grade. I was taught by three women that I had attended church with all my life. These were the same loving women that taught Sunday school and ran the church nursery. We were NEVER struck, mistreated, or abused in anyway! I think the problem lies less with the curriculum, and more with the people asked to implement it.

As students we were challenged to memorize Bible passages each month. The first day that you could correctly quote the scripture, you were given a full Snickers candy bar. No punishment if you didn't get it done...just no candy bar. I do not recall missing a candy bar, ever!
We were asked to sit in cubes to do our work, as long as you were within the boundries or your designated space you could sit anyway you wanted to. I was often laid out on the floor on my stomach with my feet up on my chair behind me, and my paces on the floor in front of me.
Our "general" daily schedule went something like this-
Announcements, 15-20 minutes.
Course work 1.5 hours
Morning break 15 minutes
Course work 1.5 hours
Lunch 20 minutes
Recess 20 minutes
Course work 1 hour
PE, Music, or Art 1 hour
We had Chapel with the pastor every Wednesday for 30 minutes, this consisted of a short sermon and alot of singing.
As soon as we had met our course work goals for the day, we were excused to another room where we could play kick ball, read books, color, play video games on an old Texas Instrument computer, or simply socialize.

At the end of the 3rd quarter each year the "stars" you had accumulated were used as points to buy prizes. I remember everything from 1lbs Hershey bars, to BMX bikes being for "sale". This was one of the highlights of our school year.
We also (with much help form teachers) prepared a full Thanksgiving dinner for our parents each year. Put on pancake breakfasts every spring, and went on at least one field trip each month. We had a blast!

I spent a total of four and a half years in the PACE system, I found mainstream public schools to be loud and disorganized. Learning slowed down for me dramatically ...because I was forced to do everything at the learning pace of the slowest person in the class room. I was bored, distracted, and frustrated. In seventh grade I tested out at a mid college reading level and was almost completely dismissed from English, Creative Writing, and Literature, because the school district that I was attending did not have the funding or qualified staff to teach me at a higher level.

The only drawback that I saw to being PACE educated in elementary school, was the difficult transition to public middle schools. My 9 year old son is currently enrolled in the top public school district in the state of Minnesota. He is failing miserably in reading and hand writing although his teachers constantly comment on how intelligent he is. I will not remove him from public school, as I think the ability to thrive in a multi-faith, multi-cultural society is critical to his future. I am however looking to supplement his education with Reading, English, and Word Building paces over the summer to try to improve his current level of education.

My experience with ACE was great. I was never punished or struck. Well, I once drenched the Vice Principals daughter with my chocolate moo. I was kicked out for the last two days. Well worth it, I believe. Anyway, I had a great experience! I was in the 8th grade and back to recess. It was awesome! I liked the cubicles, too. I felt more independent and less intimidated in my own space. I thrived on learning on my own, but there was always somebody there to answer any and all my questions. I had been tested before moving into the private school. I was about 4 yrs. behind in every subject, which is typical in public schools. Between 8th grade in ACE and 9th grade at another private school (with their own guides of study), I jumped from 4th grade math to my equivalent. These were the best 2 schools I ever attended. Starting with 8th grade (ACE) my confidence rose. I didn't like the speed reading at first, though. But, then I loved it! I looked forward every week to the day of speed reading. I have used these skills many times. They have benefited my life. In fact, I highly credit my speed reading skills to have caught me up my appropriate grade level work.--Moving around to different schools and working in the public schools, it is difficult to transition into middle school. It was difficult for me to transition from elementary to middle school, just as it is for elementary school kids to transition into middle school. -- Hey, just my experince. I am in no way challenging anyones negative experiences with going to school. I am not attempting to contradict this thread. I am only telling my {brief} experience with ACE. However, I think the importance of the staff you have and how the program is run is what made it count for me. -- i am very sorry for other peoples negative experiences in school. I just count myself very lucky. Well, I had major negative experince with the public schools I attended. Major negative experiences working in them, too! They're like their own secret society.

Being new to this thread/forum I have spent alot of time in the last few days reading over many of the posts.
Without any judgment to anyone who has posted their thoughts and feelings, I would like to give my insight.
I am now a 32 year old woman who was raised in an extremely disfunctional home. I believe that my spiritual health was in turns fanatically watched, and then completely neglected. It took me over 8 years of adult life to find peace in my relationship with God and return church, I have now been attending a non-denominational church for about 6 years, and I love it.
In the last 18 months I have been challenged and blessed with forgiveness! For my parents, some teachers, bosses, and peers that have wronged me thru the years. It is a challenge, to let go of all of the pain, the anger, and the knowledge that some people have absolutely no clue as to the harm they cause others in life. The blessing is in the peace and joy that comes when all of those bad feelings are released, given to God, and no longer a burden to you. I would not say that this is easy!!! I am still growing in this area, and I pray that everyone is able to let forgiveness and grace replace the pain and heal the scars of childhood, whether caused by teachers, parents, or peers.

I went through 12 grades in an ACE school, and the problems I have with ACE are mostly with their curriculum. It begins harmlessly enough in first grade in which the student becomes accustomed to lots of memorization and minor problem solving. The real problems arise in high school, where a school, that is not equipped with fully accredited faculty, will inevitably fail.

The first eight years of Math are ridiculously easy. I remember Pre-Geometry in 8th grade that literally entailed drawing circles with a compass. It was a joke.

9th grade ACE Algebra:

It is made up of awkward, 'atypical' algebraic problems that are intended to trip the student up--this after the student reads a text tutorial several pages long in the PACE on how to work 'typical' algebraic problems. When you arrive at the atypical problems, merely halfway into the first set of problems, you don't have a clue, because the PACE doesn't give you adequate information on how to solve these problems.

I took college algebra classes. They were a breeze compared to ACE algebra.

In my 9th grade year, My Upper Learning Center Supervisor, who possessed impressive Math knowledge, would pull the 9th grade students out of class to tutor us in Algebra. Mid-way through the year, after some scandal involving her husband (the principal) "borrowing" school funds, she resigned and moved away with her family. Our school was left without someone who could help us.

I remember the next appointed Supervisor couldn't care less. I remember having difficulties that kept me up so late, that I was forced to write nonsense answers in my PACE as homework, only to have to deal with it the next day. I would repeatedly ask to go to the scoring station to score/memorize the answers. It was a miserable process. I still managed to pass with decent grades, but it wasn't worth it. In college I was forced to take an extra Math course anyway.

The real problem in a curriculum like this is that there is no flexibility in the printed answer in a score key. It cannot tell you everything that is wrong. It cannot tell you everything that is right. And it cannot tell you why. There are times when you arrive at the right answer, but the workup is completely different from the score key. You want to know why your workup is different. You're out of luck if you don't have a mathematician present.

I eventually discovered that problems printed in the PACE tests are reused from the PACE checkups and self-test. My way of preparing for the test was to write out every checkup and memorize all the problems.

By comparison, the Algebra that I took in college was so easy that I only needed a small amount of time before the next class to complete homework. I had to re-take Basic Algebra, and then I took the required Basic Advanced Algebra as part of the Gen Ed requirements of the University. Both were easy 'A's. Had I known that I would need to retake Basic Algebra in college, I would have foregone the nightmare that is ACE Algebra. It definitely wasn't worth the sleepless nights.

ACE Science? It goes without saying...it is a joke. The facts that I learned in College Geology, Anthropology, and Astronomy immediately led me to dismiss the garbage taught to me in ACE Science. I saw before my very eyes my Anthropology Professor refute every nonsensical argument that ACE uses against Evolution (apparently, the ACE arguments are typical non-sequiturs used by many Evangelicals). My Geology Professor taught me about Plate Tectonics. Creationism is not Science, but ACE teaches that it is.

Then there is Typing. What an exercise in frustration and futility this sucker is. Why don't I just skip the content of the PACE and punch myself violently in the face. ACE Typing is an inflexible, sado-masochistic method of learning how to type. Lines and lines of print to be copied perfectly without making any mistakes, and if you do make a mistake, you do it all over again. I found myself trapped in the typing area of my school for hours, unable to move on to any other goals until late in the afternoon. At night, I was swamped with homework.

Yes, I realize that Typing is an elective. And, that is the very reason I decided to drop it 2/3 of the way through. Despite dropping that oh-so-important course I still managed to get through the rest of high school, college, and typing this very post on a message board. Aren't I lucky?

The only positive thing I have to say about English is that I found the diagramming of sentences useful. However, the course does nothing to prepare a person for University level essay-writing. In college I was, once again, forced to take an extra course in English because my skills were inadequate, thanks to ACE.

Art? As someone with a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree, I can say with authority that ACE Art is pathetic. By the time I reached ART 100 in the University's art department, I had no experience in a studio setting. I discovered my raw talent, but I spent the first couple of years playing catchup in how to develop craftsmanship and my conceptualization abilities. I did eventually reach the point where I won a departmental scholarship every time I applied for one.

Getting into college. For some, who attended unaccredited ACE schools, this is impossible unless they repeat grades in public schools. I was lucky to have had a college allow me in. But, I couldn't find a scholarship if my life depended on it. Virtually all the kids in my school who did receive scholarships were Bright Flight recipients (they also had parents who were educated and highly involved in their childrens' education). As someone who was artistically inclined but not the most gifted academically, and as someone who found very little guidance, I had no chance of getting a scholarship. None.

My sister attended a public school that had many, many programs available to her. Sports teams, clubs, activities--all these things assured her a shot at getting a full ride into a private liberal arts college. A guidance counselor with access to and knowledge of various scholarships--something an ACE school wouldn't have--merely handed her a piece of paper to sign.

She is less academically-inclined than I am. I didn't see her struggle with Math late at night. I didn't see her tote a 30lb manual typewriter home to spend hours completing her typing homework on. She had it easy. And, all...she...had...to...do was sign a piece of paper.

Sorry folks, it's the curriculum that's the problem. In the reviews of public schools, you don't hear people make any separation between the school and it's educational material. You're not likely to hear, "Yes, the school is bad, but it's not the curriculum's fault!" That would be absurd. If ACE had a solidly built curriculum, with proper oversight, ACE wouldn't be quite the disaster that it is for some people.

I think a persons perspective on the ACE method of teaching has to do with the way the school they went to was run. As you all read, my school wasn't run the best. I'm very happy for those who had good experiences with the system. I'm very happy that the ACE system worked for some.

My school was run by a very, very stricked Baptist Church. I was raised very strickted Baptist. I think that's why my belief's are different today. Going to the school I did, I always wondered why everything but reading the Bible was wrong. In elementary school (probably 5-6 grade) I knew just enough about the Bible to ask questions my teachers and Paster didn't like. Questions like, why is it that we are taught that people who are different are sinful and to not associate with them? Since I lived in Berkeley and went to school in Richmond, I brought up the homosexuals. I knew that some interpreted the Bible to say that it was wrong. I wanted to know why they were being kicked out of our church. I brought up the stories of how Jesus hung around with the different and low class and sinners of his time. I never got an answer and it was inferred that to bring it up again would get me in trouble. To me, that's not teaching. Today I feel that anytime a child has questions pertaining to the religion they're being taught, those questions should be answered. That's why today I try to accept people for WHO they are and not WHAT they are. Ok, I'm off my soapbox now LOL!

I'm glad for the experience of the ACE system. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't have know it was out there. I can see the potential good in it, if run right and the usefulness of the PACE system for catching up on schoolwork if needed.

Quote
lwr32
I'm glad for the experience of the ACE system. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't have know it was out there. I can see the potential good in it, if run right and the usefulness of the PACE system for catching up on schoolwork if needed.

If home-schooled by an untrained parent or the student happens to attend a "School of Tomorrow" run by unaccredited faculty, the student would fall behind if he/she wanted to eventually rejoin a public school. I was unceremoniously kicked out of my "School of Tomorrow" just before 12th grade started because my deadbeat dad failed to pay the bill. When faced with paying my own way through ACE home school or going to a public high school, I chose ACE home school for the simple fact that I would have to repeat at least one grade in public school in most subjects (save English, as my Supervisor had an advanced English degree).

In hindsight, however, I would have volunteered to repeat TWO grades in public school, with all it had to offer compared to ACE. Art, Design, and Media programs to prepare me for college? Sign me up at public school any day. ACE is an utter failure.

I keep hearing arguments on the difference between a good or bad ACE school, as if it makes any difference. My ACE school won multiple apple awards from ACE. It was a model school. It still had a fraction of what a decent public school has to offer. You learn garbage "Creation Science" in ACE, which is easily debunked by any competent Science teacher. You learn History in Social Studies from a skewed Evangelical perspective that actually spoke positively on the apartheid. In my ACE school, Computer Literature was teaching BASIC when all other public schools were teaching Windows. Public Schools provide media, art, computers, trips around the world, multiple sports, clubs, activities, and scholarship opportunities that ACE doesn't provide.

When it comes to the quality of "teaching" you get in ACE, you are at the mercy of volunteer monitors. Our Supervisors were paid, but monitors were volunteers. Per 30 students, in the morning, we had about 3 or 4 monitors who moved at their own pace, and had the attitude that students should be grateful they were even there. In the afternoon, the number of monitors diminished to 2, and I found myself at times waiting for 20-30 minutes in the afternoon for someone to answer my Christian flag for something simple like scoring.

When I think back to scoring procedure, I can't help but think, "how stupid!" Seriously. Why on earth would ACE intentionally limit the efficiency of my workday by forcing me to wait for an answered flag to score? Why is it a PRIVILEGE to score without asking? I have to EARN the right to work more efficiently? I have to earn a level to do that? ACE is hurting the student's progress for no good reason at all.

I haven't posted in quite awhile. Got a little frustrated with some postings and I had to take a break. I recently joined ACA. "...it works if you work it..."

Funny how some of you beat the system. I would sometimes write crap answers on math homework and deal with them the following day. When I could get away with it, I would put off Math until the end of the day. I would usually take it home and I would either bullcrap the answers or get my hands on a calculator and do what I, at that time, do what I considered the needful.

But my biggest scam was in what most schools would consider the ninth grade. I was assigned "Foxe's Book of Martyrs" for English Literature. The book was over 300 pages, published by Zondervan. I was smart enough to notice there was a totally different publisher on the study guide (the series of questions published by A.C.E. that I had to answer before the test.) I knew it wasn't right. So instead of pushing the issue with the principal, I left English Literature off my Goal Chart, hid the study guide in the back of the heavy tome, and pretended like the problem didn't exist. When the principal came around to see what books we had signed out, he picked the book up out of my office and looked at the due date. Past due. Way past. He found the almost completely blank study guide and he angerly slammed the book and study guide down on the top of my office and growled, "You'll finish this by the end of the weekend!" He stormed off. A couple hours later I got up enough guts to put up my flag to point out the discrepancy of two different publishers. He rebutted, pointing out that there is no difference. Never before had I been so frustrated. And of course I put down bullcrap answers on most of the study guide. Monday I showed him how far I got. I offered to work through most of my lunch to finish. So began the scam. And he was so proud of me when he saw me return to the Learning Center with 20 minutes left in lunch. I brought my pencil to the scoring table and made corrections, of course marking some wrong to cover my tracks. I spread it out over 3 days. But eventually I got all the right answers down on the study guide, leaving the book open on my desk for the sole purpose of having a decoy. I studied by memorizing the questions before turning in the study guide. I passed the PACE test with about a 93%. I knew I was cheating. I knew it was wrong. But I felt like I had to do it. But a part of me enjoyed it, almost as I was secretly telling the principal to go screw himself.

I enjoyed that. 3 years ago I received a battery of about 8 paddlings within about six weeks on accusations from a male supervisor who was eventually arrested for "lewd and lacivious behavior." When innocent, I was punished. When guilty, I was not punished. Way to go, ACE!

I came across this forum as I was doing some searches on the net. I wanted to take the opportunity to post, if I don't reply quickly its because I have limited internet access at the moment.

My father was ACE's production manager for about 6 years and he moved them into their "new" headquarters at the time in Lewisville Texas. I was in the ACE lab schools in both Garland Texas and in Lewisville Texas and then other ACE schools after we moved to another country to get away from what was going on in that company.
ACE is one of the reasons that I have little or nothing to do with Christianity. Besides the obvious inadequacies of their educational system which I could ramble on about for hours, but because the leadership itself was hypocritical to an extreme and were directly responsible for my father having a serious nervous breakdown that he has never recovered from. You think Jim and Tammi Baker were scandalous? You should check out the Howards and their "followers". I watched them try to bribe my father to back them up in court and suffered through interrogations from teachers who were told to question me about my father's plans (I was 12 at the time). It was horrible and I still have nightmares. They even followed us to the country we moved to too try and bribe my father again, I'll never forget watching those men pull up in some big rented car and having to try and be nice to them and then watching my father have another nervous breakdown. Fun times, not! But since most of it has been hidden away due to large amounts of money payed out to blackmailers, you probably won't be able to check out any of it.

I often wonder where my sisters and my life would have gone if we had been given a decent education and a decent example to follow in life. We've all done okay, but it was due to a lot of hard work on our own after "graduating" from "high school", certainly not due to the "Accelerated Christian Education" that we received or our involvement in their lab school, company and church.

I get a great deal of comfort in the belief that what goes around comes around and these people and their hypocrisy will someday get what's coming to them. Personally I hope its soon, all though its too late for my family and many others. I have nothing good to say about these people or their educational system or their so called "brand" of Christianity.

If this posting sounds a bit angry its because I am still angry.