Maybe I should have posted this first
BE IT REMEMBERED that on Thursday, May 14, 2009,
commencing at the hour of 9:05 a.m., at the offices of
Barron & Rich, Certified Shorthand Reporters, 775
University Avenue, Sacramento, California, before me,
SANDY J. KOSTER, a Certified Shorthand Reporter,
empowered to administer oaths and affirmations pursuant
to Section 2093(b) of the Code of Civil Procedure,
personally appeared
TONY CUNNINGHAM,a defendant in the within-entitled matter, called as a
witness by the plaintiffs, who, having been duly sworn by
the Certified Shorthand Reporter to tell the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified as follows:
--o0o--
EXAMINATION BY MR. ASCH
Q. Good morning, Mr. Cunningham.
A. Good morning.
Q. My name's David Asch. I represent Callie Plant and Daniel Plant in an action they've brought against you and Radiant Life Church. We introduced ourselves off the
record. And if you can state your name and spell your last name for the record, please.
A. Tony Cunningham, C-u-n-n-i-n-g-h-a-m.
Q. Can you state your address?
A. 8865 White Peacock Court, Elk Grove, California, 95624.
Q. Before we start I'm just going to go over some admonitions. Have you ever had your deposition taken before?
A. Once, yes.
Q. And when was that?
A. Approximately five years ago.
Q. Do you recall any of the admonitions that were given in that deposition?
A. I do not.
Q. Basically, I'm entitled to your best estimate. Don't guess. If you are unsure, let me know, and I can ferrit out whether or not you're estimating or a guess. I'm entitled to your best estimate, so just if I ask you how much was it and you go well, I don't know exactly, that's okay; I can get your best estimate.
The court reporter is taking down everything that you're saying, and all of the questions are going to be typed up into a booklet form. At the end of the deposition you're going to receive notice that the deposition is ready to review. You'll have an
opportunity to review it. If you make any changes that go to a substantive issue, it will affect your credibility if this case were to go to trial.
Even though we're in an informal setting, it has the same force and effect as if you were testifying in a courtroom. There is huh-uh, mm-hmm. You have to answer audibly. Yes, no, good answers. Mm-hmm, hm-mm, the court reporter can't translate that. So I would ask you to answer audibly and wait for me to finish asking my question before you answer. Do you understand that?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have any reason why you can't give your best testimony here today?
A. No.
Q. Okay. What is your title?
A. I'm sorry.
Q. Your title.
A. Professionally?
Q. (Nods head up and down.)
A. Pastor.
Q. And what exactly is a pastor?
A. One who teaches in a Christian church the scripture and encourages those that they teach to practice the teaching in the scripture.
Q. And do you need any kind of certificate or degree?
A. No.
Q. Is there any curriculum required to be a pastor?
A. No.
Q. Is there a -- an affiliation that you have as a pastor?
A. Yes.
Q. And what is that?
A. One affiliation is with the Church of God, and another is with Radiant Life Church.
Q. And where is the Church of God out of? Where is the Church of God? What is it?
A. It is a nondenominational association of churches with its headquarters in Anderson, Indiana.
Q. And are you a pastor for the Church of God? Is that a fair statement?
A. No.
Q. When you're affiliated with them, what does that mean?
A. That means that I was initially credentialed by them and served in a Church of God congregation.
Q. So you get a credential from a church. Did I get that right?
A. In this instance I got a credential from a nondenominational association of churches.
Q. Which is the Church of God?
A. That is correct.
Q. So they gave you the certificate, true?
A. That is correct.
Q. And when did you get that?
A. Approximately?
Q. Yeah.
A. 1988.
Q. And you mentioned another Radiant Life Church. What is that?
A. It is a local congregation.
Q. Do they issue certificates?
A. Yes.
!!!_____________________________________!!!
!!!HOLD ON FOLKS!!!
DID TONY CUNNINGHAM JUST LIE AGAIN?
UNDER OATH!?!?!
Here is a letter from the Church of God Anderson, Indiana
Quote
Ken Hatch Chief Legal Officer
Dear Mr. BRaveheart:
Thank you for your inquiry regarding the Radiant Life Church. I have done some searching in our records for some of the issues that you have raised. I found a Radiant Life Church that was located in Elk Grove, California where Rev Tony Cunningham was the pastor. Our records indicate that the Elk Grove Radiant Life Church closed in 2007, and Tony Cunningham was no longer the pastor there as of 2004. There is a Radiant Life Church in West Sacramento, California but Rev. Tony Cunningham is not listed as the pastor.
These are serious matters that you are raising. Credentialing matters in the Church of God are governed by the area, state, or regional assemblies' credentialing committee where the person is a pastor and NOT by the national church here in Anderson. Approval of churches also is the responsibility of the area, state, or regional assembly and not the national church in Anderson. The credentialing committe chair of Northern California is Rev. Steve Robertson who is one of the pastors of the North Modesto congregation. The area administrator for Northern California is Dr. Cynthia James in Pleasanton, California. I will make them aware of your serious concerns.
Sincerely,
Ken Hatch
Chief Legal Officer
Church of God Ministries
P.O. Box 2420
Anderson, IN 46018
Tony can not keep his own time line of lies together!
!!!_____________________________________!!!
Q. And so Radiant Life Church. Where are they headquartered out of?
A. Sacramento, California. It is one church.
Q. It's one church?
(Witness nods head up and down.)
Q. Is the Church of God and Radiant Life Church the same thing?
A. No.
Q. What's different about them?
A. One is a local congregation, and the Church of God is a nondenominational association of churches.
Q. Was Radiant Life Church part of the Church of God?
A. Technically speaking, every Christian church is a part of the Church of God.
TWISTING DEFINITIONSQ. Okay. Okay. What's your educational background?
A. Where did I go to high school? Where did I go to university?
Q. Sure.
A. What?
Q. All of those.
A. Went to Valencia High School in Plancentia, California.
Q. And you graduated in?
A. 1981.
Q. And then you went to?
A. Seattle Pacific University in Seattle, Washington.
Q. What kind of school is that?
A. It is a Christian liberal arts school.
Q. How many students attend that?
A. Approximately? 3,000.
Q. And what years did you go there?
A. '82 through '85.
Q. Did you receive any degrees from Seattle Pacific University?
A.
No.Q. Do you have any degree?
A. A
nonaccredited bachelor of arts in religion.
Q. Where did you get that from?
A. Pacific Southern University.
Q. Where is that located?
A. In Los Angeles.
Q. And what kind of school is that?
A. A liberal arts school.
Q. How many students attend that?
A. I do not know.
Q. When you were there was it a large school?
A. No. Very small.
Q. When you say
nonaccredited, what does that mean?
A. I don't believe they had an accreditation.
Q. And how does that affect your BA in liberal arts?
A. Does not affect it.
Q. If you were to describe the curriculum that you had while you were a student, what kind of curriculum would that be?
A. In Biblical studies and religion.
Q. Anything else?
A. No.
Q. Do you have any other certificates, credentials, anything?
A. Just the two that I mentioned.
Q. So you got the certificate from the Church of God as a pastor that you got in 1988, and you have a BA from a
nonaccredited --
A. No. The certificate from Radiant Life Church. Those were the two that I mentioned.
Q. The certificate came from Radiant Life Church, not Church of God?
A. No. What I stated was that I received one from the Church of God.
Q. Yes.
A. And later received another one from Radiant Life Church.
Q. Got it. So you have two certificates, one from Radiant Life Church, but you said that exists only in Sacramento, true?
A. That is correct.
Q. So how do you get a certificate from Radiant Life Church?
A. A local church is capable of credentialing a pastor.
Q. Is there a credential committee at Radiant Life Church?
A. No.
Q. So what was the procedure that was in place that you were able to receive your credential from Radiant Life Church?
A. I had been the existing pastor of the church for many years, and the Board of Elders made a motion and approved it to credential me, and then there was a service for ordination.
Q. And when did that happen?
A. Approximately three years ago or four years ago.
Q. So 2005?
A. Approximately.
Q. Is there any curriculum that you have to provide the Board of Elders in order for them to credential you?
A. No.
Q. The Board of Elders are the ones who determine whether or not you get credentialed?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And subsequent to you being a pastor have the others been given the same certificate?
A. I believe so.
Q. I got it. Yeah. Yeah. Can you give me the names of those?
A. I would be offering my best recollection.
Q. Yes.
A. Brandon Miller, Tom Borsik, I believe Tom Kimball. That's as best as I can recall.
Q. Thank you very much. Brandon Miller, when did he become a pastor through the certificate from the Board of Elders?
A. I believe approximately six years ago.
Q. In 2003?
A. I believe so.
Q. Sure. And then Tom Borsik?
A. I believe approximately the same time, 2002, 2003.
Q. And Tom Kimball?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Okay. Is there any curriculum that they are required to have in order to get a certificate to become a pastor at Radiant Life Church?
A. No.
Q. So an MBA from Stanford could become a pastor at Radiant Life Church?
A. Presumably that would be a possibility.
Q. An agronomist from Cal Poly could become a pastor?
MS. DELANOY: If you know.
MR. ASCH: If you know.
MS. DELANOY: I don't see the relevance to this.
Q. MR. ASCH: You know, an agronomist from Cal Poly. Here. I'll withdraw that question. Let me just go through your definition of a business. What is a business?
MS. DELANOY: Are you looking for his opinion as a layperson?
MR. ASCH: Yeah.
MS. DELANOY: Lacks foundation. If you can answer.
Q. MR. ASCH: I'm just laying a foundation so that if I ask you can you name the businesses that you have, I have a working definition that you've got. I don't know
what a business is in terms of what you know, so if you could help me with that, and I can ask you to list the businesses that you are associated with or have or own or whatever.
A. An entity that exists to sell a product or service.
Q. Is there more?
A. I think that -- okay with that.
Q. Can you give me a list of businesses that you've been associated with or have owned or otherwise been involved in the last ten years since 2001 -- or let's just start with 2000 -- 1999 to 2009. Is that possible?
A. The Hidden Door Company, Pasta, Dynamais, Lloyd's Linens.
Q. Is that Linen?
(Witness nods head up and down.)
Q. Is that it?
A. I believe that's it.
Q. Okay. Hidden Door Company, what is that? It sounds like a company that deals with doors. But can you give me some information about that?
A. It sold moveable bookcases, bookcases that were doors to afford a space to be either beautified or concealed.
Q. And what was your position with Hidden Door Company?
A. I was a part owner of it.
Q. And was that a corporation, sole proprietorship, limited liability corporation?
A. I don't recall.
Q. What was the other partners?
MS. DELANOY: Assumes there's another partner. But who was the other person involved with the business?
THE WITNESS: Matt Wanner. I'm assuming you mean while I was involved in it.
Q. MR. ASCH: Yes. Yes.
A. I believe that was it.
Q. And what year was this?
A. Quite some years ago. I don't recall.
Q. More than five years ago?
A. Yes, I believe so.
Q. Okay. And did you start the company?
A. Matt Wanner did.
Q. And then how did you become associated with it?
A. Matt invited me.
Q. And when you say invite, did you put some money into it?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you put the money into it, you became a partner?
A. Yes.
Q. And are you still in the company?
A. Oh, no.
Q. What happened to the company?
A. Subsequent to my no longer being a part of the company, it was sold.
Q. What year was that?
A. I don't know. I wasn't involved.
Q. And are you -- do you still know Matt Warner?
A. Yes.
Q. And how do you know him?
A. We attended the same church, and our children played together.
Q. Which brings me back to: You gave me an address on Peacock Court. Can you tell me who you live with there?
A. At 8865 White Peacock Court?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. The names of the occupants of the home?
Q. Yes.
A. Okay. Rose Cunningham, Joel Cunningham.
Q. That's your son?
A. Correct.
Q. How old is he?
A. He is 20 years old.
Q. Okay.
A. Anna Cunningham.
Q. How old is she?
A. Seventeen. Abigail Cunningham, 15; Rebecca, Cunningham, 13; Sarah Cunningham.
Q. You're pretty proud. I can see that big smile on your face.
A. Eleven.
MS. DELANOY: Pretty regular spacing there.
THE WITNESS:
Mera Whorton.MS. DELANOY: Can you spell that last name?
THE WITNESS: W-h-o-r-t-o-n.
Q. MR. ASCH: Mother-in-law?
A. No. Approximate age? Would that work for you?
Q. I was figuring she was Rose's mom.
A. No.
Q. She's not Rose's mom?
A. No, she's not.
Q. Who is she?
A. She's a widow that lives in my home. I do not know how old she is. I would just give you an approximate.
Q. No, no. That's good. Is she a renter? Does she pay rent?
A. No.
Q. Does she have any responsibilities in the home?
A. No.
Q. So what I heard you say is that Mera Whorton lives at your home, she doesn't pay rent and she has no responsibilities. Did I get that right?
A. I believe so.
Q. Do you have a financial arrangement with her?
A. Yes.
MS. DELANOY: I'm just going to object to the whole line of questioning as being not going to lead to admissible evidence. I don't know what this has to do with the case who lives in his home.
Q. MR. ASCH: But you can still answer it.
A. Why?
Q. It goes to your influence. So to me it's a relevant question about how a lady who pays no rent, has no responsibilities, is living under your roof. If she wanted to move out, could she move out?
A. Yes.
Q. And if she's a widow, does she have any means to do that?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. How long has she lived there?
A. Approximately five years.
Q. Did she give you money to stay at your house?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Doesn't pay rent, she gave you no money, and she has no responsibilities. Does she have disability?
A. No.
Q. I'm kind of lost, because you're telling me she's just living there. And you're okay with that?
A. Pretty much.
Q. Is there a part that's not okay with it?
A. No.