Rather than mix comments regarding David Luster and Turning Point Church Skagit Valley with the Turning Point Church World Outreach Center thread, I think its appropriate to start this thread.

If you have questions or have experience with questionable teachings and or practices at Turning Point Skagit Valley that are or can be destructive please post those items in this thread.

Thank you.

Does Pastor David have real Bible college degrees or did he just have a SOMA course certifitate? And how many of his teachers at SOMA had real Bible college degrees?

I've been rendered speechless.......

Pastor David's Facebook status

"David Luster enjoyed dinner with the Villamors last night in Seattle. Praise God for a man and woman who are willing to lead, no matter the cost."

To those who have decided to call Turning Point Church Skagit Valley their home church:

Welcome. Before you are tempted to quickly pass by this thread and write it off as rebel rousing or worse, I encourage you to take the time to do some research. May I suggest that you take the time to read through all the posts on the RLC/Radiant Life Church threads (there are several and it will require a commitment of time) and read through all the posts on the Turning Point Church World Outreach Center thread.

David Luster, the pastor of TPCSV, has sat under the teaching of two men: Tony Cunningham and Mike Villamor. He has heard, taken in, and mostly likely, practiced many if not all of the teachings these two men have taught. You do yourself and your families a great disservice by not taking time to read and carefully consider the testimonies of those who have posted here on this site while sitting under these men's influence and teaching.

God's Blessing on your lives as you seek His Truth.

David Luster you claim to be a Pastor ( protector of the flock from false teachers ) and a Evangelist! When you read the Bible ( 2 Tim 4:1-8 ) Preach the Word, Correct, Rebuke, Encourage and Fight the false teachers! What on earth are you waiting for! I pray for you and encourage you to stand up and have the courage and boldness to fight against the false teachers and the false teachings that has already infiltrated TPWOC! If you do not act soon, you being a true Pastor and Evangelist will be brought into, questioned and you could be considered one of them!

If you currently attend or have considered attending Turning Point Church in Skagit Valley or in Marysville you will want to ask the Pastor about several doctrines they teach.

The first doctrine you will want to ask about is the doctrine of "Spiritual Covering". This doctrine is taught and practiced by Turning Point.


Please take time to ask questions and research what this church teaches and believes.

Here are some links to articles that dispute the validity of the doctrine of "Spiritual Covering" as it is taught by Turning Point.

[www.slm.org]

[www.harvest-now.org]

[www.oasisfellowship.us]

[www.slm.org]

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2009 02:13AM by TurningPointReject.

Hundreds, possibly thousands have left RLC Sacramento and have been seriously affected. Several churches have renounced ties with RLC, Sacramento, and the church community in Sacramento is alarmed by the doctine and the condition of people flooding their churches. Why even take the chance?

Dear Turning Point Church Skagit,

As Pastor David has praised Mike and Cyndi in his facebook entry I add this to your thread. I do so reluctantly. But I believe Mike is David's apostle. I hope you will ask him. I also believe he accepts Cyndi as a prophetess (please ask him). As such he has thrown his lot in with them. I think you should know what you are getting into.





There is a very interesting article my wife's uncle sent me. In the RLC forum Deja Vu cited a description of narcissism 7-08-08.

This one hones in on what happens when that person is a minister.

This is an extensive article and like many of these things does not entirely apply to Mike and Cyndi. I have copied here some things that stand out. If true this is much harder to address then I would have thought. Of course I am not a professional therapist. I make no claim to diagnosing Mike or Cyndi. Those of you on staff at TP or are a subordinate minister may relate to much of this.

To those on staff or are pastors please read the section of the article that deals with how to relate to this person. The author says many of you may be feeling enormous stress and suggests ways to deal with it. Also, I concluded with a statement in the article that applies to you who are elders and pastors. I hope you will prayerfully consider what it says.

Just google Narcissist's in the Pulpit to get the full article. I have put Roman numberals by quotes from the article and then followed by specific examples. Many of you have already read these examples but I know many of you haven't. Feel free to add your own examples or, as always, if you believe I am mistaken or erroneous please correct me.

I. "When you enter the web of the Narcissist, you leave yourself behind." (Hotchkiss, p.62

II. 5. Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special & favorable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations.

One of the odd experiences I had with Mike was that one time we came to his house for discipleship. We didn't see him in the living room where we usually met and so one of the guys figured he was asleep. A bunch of us gathered outside as we had done before when suddenly he appreared. He was irritated at us because he was in the other room worshipping God and thought we should have come in. He didn't apologize or say that he should have told us where he was. He expected us to know.

III. Exaggerated descriptions of Self: The simplest way to identify the narcissist it to note how they show their exaggerated sense of self by talking about family, work, and life in general as if there is not one else in the picture.

This I believe explains the videos on youtube. The idea that Mike feels comfortable having himself videoed going to his son's school as the ultimate parent. Totally unaware of how self serving and exalting he is being.


IV. The power of the NPD person to bring you into unconscious agreement with her belief that she is truly extraordinary is possibly the most remarkable feature of the narcissist. Before you know what is happening you may be following her lead, enjoying her charisma, or perhaps intimidated by her persuasiveness, power, and authority....the narcissist's belief that you too are special because he has selected you to associate with him is also a compelling force at work. (Payson Page 38).

This was one of the most powerful quotes in the article to me. In one of the first video's on SOMA they use words like this school will go “beyond your wildest dreams” or that “This is the closest thing we have to the book Acts right now” or Cyndi saying that the students taking her speech class will improve their skills 90% by the time they were done with her class. I have also experienced the power of going into Mike's office with a very clear perception of what an issue was and within minutes totally doubting anything I thought.



V. Contradictory Statements: Another telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will tell you one thing, and later tell you that they told you something
and deny that they said the first thing. The narcissist pastor will say something to one group of people in the church and then say something completely different to another group or individual. When confronted about this contradiction they will question your sanity with, “I never said any such thing. How could you think that?” The scariest part of this is that the narcissist will believe his lies.

To you who are elders or assistantants to Mike and Cyndi have you ever experienced this? Have you ever been under the impression they were promising you something and then they deny it? Or give you instructions and then reverse themselves and blame you???


VI. Dattner also points out that the NPD leader will tend to select and defer to loyal and uncritical staff. Loyalty will be valued far more that truth speaking. The narcissistic pastor will attempt to stack the board, the elders or committees that he has to deal with, with people who he perceives as loyal.


I believe this is consistent with the reality at TP. How many of the elders are on staff or spouses are on staff? How many have their salaries and sense of worth determined by Mike and Cyndi?

VII. “The victim of a narcissist is traumatized. There are biochemical changes in the body and structural changes in the brain. Thought patterns change, memories are lost, immune system strongly affected, brain cells die, there is chest pain, muscle pain, feelings are intense and emotions chaotic. Victimization is never deserved. (Bradley)
The stress created can not be underemphasized.

To you staff members, do you related to this statement? I have reason to believe this has been your reality for awhile now. If it is you are not alone. You don't have to be alone. There is more in the article to help you.


VIII. Some narcissists seek to imitate or even emulate their (ever changing) role models. It is as if by imitating the object of his envy, the narcissist becomes that object. So, narcissists are likely to adopt their boss' typical gestures, the vocabulary of a successful politician, the dress code of a movie star, the views of an esteemed tycoon, even the countenance and actions of the (fictitious) hero of a movie or a novel.”

I have seen this with Mike in many ways. It was only years later that I discovered that many of the things Mike did were because Tony did them. I remember Tony came up once and was dressed in a really weird type shirt. The next time I saw Mike he was wearing the same type of shirt. I believe now that is what is happening with the prosperity churches that is their new mark of identification.

IX. Realize that the narcissist has shifting values and what is good to him at one moment is not the next—everything hinges upon what they feel is best for them at the time. It is extremely hard to get a narcissistic pastor to create long term rules (policies and procedures/flow charts of authority etc) as they would much rather autocratically make decisions arbitrarily and not have any restrictions placed upon themselves. They will just wish to pleasure those who are loyal and make them look good, and punish all who they feel who do not. It therefore becomes important for the church leadership to make sure that policies and procedures get put in place and followed. Again it will be important to make sure strong leaders are involved in setting these policies and then get these in writing and distributed accordingly.

Pastor Mike preached the sermon on healing that began their becoming of Word of Faith church without consulting or informing anyone. Nor did he feel he needed to even explain as he preached the new doctrine why he was changing his views. This seemed bizarre to me until I read this. The person teaching SOMA was not even ordered to change the curriculum. They had to ask him later as he hadn't thought that far ahead.

X. 1. Poor Interpersonal Boundaries - Equilibrium for Narcissists is a state of fusion with others who have something they need. Whether the Narcissist deliberately sets out to undermine your autonomy or just ignores your separate existence, that predisposition to fusion means that you will not only be expected to do what the Narcissist wants but also to know what that is, to want it yourself, and - this is important - to be able to produce it.....If the Narcissist wants you for something, you become an extension of her Self, like an extra arm on her body. She may flatter you, offer you rewards, or otherwise try to seduce you to get you into her web. If she already has power over you, she may shame or manipulate you to keep you under her thumb. Her goal is to annihilate the boundaries between you, to own you, as it were. Separateness will be viewed as a threat, and you will experience repeated violations of your personal boundaries....Personal boundaries are seen as an obstacle to complete control and are routinely violated.

Twice I made appointments with staff members and was speaking with them and they were interupted. The staff member had to get out and tend to Mike. There was no thought that the person who was serving on staff or the person coming to the office was important in the eyes of God also. The feeling was “The MIKE wants me The MIKE gets me.”


XI. Entitlement. Spend a few days with a narcissist out and about and you will quickly identify this trait:
“The narcissist immediately asks for "special treatment" of some kind. Not to wait his turn, to have a longer or a shorter therapeutic session, to talk directly to authority figures (and not to their assistants or secretaries), to be granted special payment terms, to enjoy custom tailored arrangements - or to get served first. The narcissist is the one who – vocally and demonstratively – demands the undivided attention of the head waiter in a restaurant, or monopolizes the hostess, or latches on to celebrities in a party. The narcissist reacts with rage and indignantly when denied his wishes and if treated equally with others whom he deems inferior.” (Vaknin)

I believe this is at the core of the Villamoors being able to buy a house in an exclusive neigherhood almost immediately after a massive fund drive. Mike called upon people to sacrifice and give and not indulge in things like crown molding. Yet had no compunction about buying a house far in excess of anything the vast majority of his congregants were sacrificing.







XII. A Key Conclusion
Realize that a narcissistic pastor is a very real danger both to himself and to the church life. According to Dattner Consulting LLC if the NPD pastor is able to accumulate too much power and prestige, and if others in the church are not able to moderate the narcissist’s destructive impulses, success can soon lead to failure.



Unfortunately, the leadership of the church will most likely make an attempt to help the pastor, or curb excess by rules and boundaries, but these simply delays the inevitable. Sooner or later the leadership of the church must react and respond pragmatically or accept things the way they are and give the narcissist free reign. A decision has to be made weighing out the positive and negatives of keeping the narcissistic pastor in the pulpit. Personally, I believe it is a no-brainer, but in reality this may become a very difficult decision. It will be very hard for some to accept the evidence of what they see before them. Some others may be caught up in the benefits of aligning themselves with the narcissist and his plans etc. In all the confusion, the greatest tool of the devil—that of causing disunity will rear its ugly head. Leadership must work at establishing unity and trust, particularly within itself, and then make the tough decision. It will be important to properly document the deficiencies as it related to absent skill sets that the pastor is lacking, as well as to list the abuses of power etc. that are being manifest. It would be prudent to as quickly as possible have a formal evaluation of the pastor done, and the notes entered into the personnel file in case their is the need for dismissal, and the pastor counters with a law suit. Make sure you have crossed all the t's and dotted your i's. When possible consult with your district leadership about proper process for dismissal. The best scenario is to convince the narcissist how it is in his best interests to resign and find other employment

I wonder what the youth program will be like at TPC Skagit? A I understand the youth director is a SOMA graduate and fully supportive of the TPC Leadership. He must believe the the Villamors are an Apostle and prophet as well. Do you want your kids led this young man? That has to cause some concern.

The youth Pastor at TPC Skagit was a teacher to my Son and I had the privilege to go out and witness with him, you could not ask for a better Youth Pastor and a smart, bright, Christlike brother, thats what makes this so hard! So many people we love being decieved by Pastor Mike and Tony Cunningham!