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misleadsoul
Well all of this is new to me. I just realized that most of my life has been controlled and I have been mislead by pastors and leaders who call themselves men and women of God.
The idea of being in a cult is scary to me. I had attended TPC for a few years and had realized that what had been taught there was affecting my walk with Christ. I also lost a very close relationship to me because of the belief in dicipleship and control. I understand that being accountable is good, but to the point where you are told how to live, is the part I question? Also there were things in leadership I noticed was going on, that was not Biblical. Where to go from here? Does any one know of any good churches in the area?

Welcome to the forum misleadsoul,

There are a lot of great churches in this area. I guess it depends on what you and your family are looking for as to where you will find your place. I am probably not the best person to ask because I visited all of two churches before I found a church were I felt immediately at home and happy. Whatever you do, ask questions about accountability and leadership. Our church has something called Pizza with the Pastor. I and some others who were new went armed with questions about accountability, doctrine, how elders were chosen and term limits. If a church you visit doesn't have a get together where you can ask questions, make an appointment to talk to the pastor. You will know if a church is right for you by the atmosphere and the answers you get to any questions you might have.

D of D

D od D: and others:

I have been repeatedly been getting Jeremiah 23. Have or had you gotten these also.
I have decided to leave TP. I have not told any friends there yet. I love the people there and feel I may lose friends due to my departure. Even so, I must leave. Did you lose friends there?

I have been on the internet researching "John Bevere". There have been uncomplementary things said about him especially his book "Undercover". What is your opinion on this?

I also went to one session of John Bevere at Jake's house. I really did not get anything out of this. I do remember him stating that people that love money are broke. I disagree with this due the recession. I'm broke, but not due to the love of money.

To All:
What is your take on the above.

God Bless

jesuschristismydelight:

See [www.culteducation.com]

Ten signs of a safe group/leader.

1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.

2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.

3. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.

4. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.

5. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.

6. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.

7. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.

8. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.

9. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.

10. A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

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jesuschristismydelight
D od D: and others:

I have been repeatedly been getting Jeremiah 23. Have or had you gotten these also.
I have decided to leave TP. I have not told any friends there yet. I love the people there and feel I may lose friends due to my departure. Even so, I must leave. Did you lose friends there?

I have been on the internet researching "John Bevere". There have been uncomplementary things said about him especially his book "Undercover". What is your opinion on this?

I also went to one session of John Bevere at Jake's house. I really did not get anything out of this. I do remember him stating that people that love money are broke. I disagree with this due the recession. I'm broke, but not due to the love of money.

To All:
What is your take on the above.

God Bless

As your question about losing freinds to the departure of TPC, I can attest to that. I recently had made the choice to finally leave. A few years ago I was involved in home small groups ect.. If you pull back in any way or arn't avaliable or 100% comitted to being at every meeting they sorta keep you at a distance, which is what I experienced. Also if you question things or distance yourself, they keep an eye on you like your a threat or something. It does hurt temporarly, but just remember to gain the world, exceptence, freindship and lose your soul? Or to follow Christ, and pray that loved ones and those who are friends will see the light of Christ and find the truth as well.

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misleadsoul

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jesuschristismydelight
D od D: and others:

I have been repeatedly been getting Jeremiah 23. Have or had you gotten these also.
I have decided to leave TP. I have not told any friends there yet. I love the people there and feel I may lose friends due to my departure. Even so, I must leave. Did you lose friends there?

I have been on the internet researching "John Bevere". There have been uncomplementary things said about him especially his book "Undercover". What is your opinion on this?

I also went to one session of John Bevere at Jake's house. I really did not get anything out of this. I do remember him stating that people that love money are broke. I disagree with this due the recession. I'm broke, but not due to the love of money.

To All:
What is your take on the above.

God Bless

As your question about losing freinds to the departure of TPC, I can attest to that. I recently had made the choice to finally leave. A few years ago I was involved in home small groups ect.. If you pull back in any way or arn't avaliable or 100% comitted to being at every meeting they sorta keep you at a distance, which is what I experienced. Also if you question things or distance yourself, they keep an eye on you like your a threat or something. It does hurt temporarly, but just remember to gain the world, exceptence, freindship and lose your soul? Or to follow Christ, and pray that loved ones and those who are friends will see the light of Christ and find the truth as well.

Dear misleadsoul and jesuschristismydelight,


Yes, the Lord sent me Jeremiah 23 when we left TPC. It reinforced for me that we had made the correct decision to leave. Yes, I lost friends when we chose to leave. The party line was and still is to a certain extent that if you choose to leave it is for the best so there will be no dissent from the acceptable train of thought at TPC. Undercover was a tool of control for Mike and company. I read the book and found it odd that a book would advocate submission to an authority figure when it is obvious that the authority figure is misusing their position of authority and spiritually abusing those around them for personal gain. I didn't buy into what that book was advocating. At TPC it was always about buying what they were selling. Anything less than acceptance of everything they espoused was not acceptable. However, when you make the choice to leave you have a network of those who left before you to provide support There is life and a very good life after TPC.

D of D

Misleadsoul and Jesuschristismydelight,

Many of us kept running into references to Jeremiah 23 after we left TPC. I know that for myself, if I run into a reference to a scripture more than twice then I need to pay close attention and listen for God's voice.

Jeremiah 23 (The Message)

1-4 "Doom to the shepherd-leaders who butcher and scatter my sheep!" God's Decree. "So here is what I, God, Israel's God, say to the shepherd-leaders who misled my people: 'You've scattered my sheep. You've driven them off. You haven't kept your eye on them. Well, let me tell you, I'm keeping my eye on you, keeping track of your criminal behavior. I'll take over and gather what's left of my sheep, gather them in from all the lands where I've driven them. I'll bring them back where they belong, and they'll recover and flourish. I'll set shepherd-leaders over them who will take good care of them. They won't live in fear or panic anymore. All the lost sheep rounded up!' God's Decree."

5-6"Time's coming"—God's Decree—
"when I'll establish a truly righteous David-Branch,
A ruler who knows how to rule justly.
He'll make sure of justice and keep people united.
In his time Judah will be secure again
and Israel will live in safety.
This is the name they'll give him:
'God-Who-Puts-Everything-Right.'

7-8"So watch for this. The time's coming"—God's Decree—"when no one will say, 'As sure as God lives, the God who brought the Israelites out of Egypt,' but, 'As sure as God lives, the God who brought the descendants of Israel back from the north country and from the other countries where he'd driven them, so that they can live on their own good earth.'"

The "Everything Will Turn Out Fine" Sermon
9My head is reeling,
my limbs are limp,
I'm staggering like a drunk,
seeing double from too much wine—
And all because of God,
because of his holy words.
10-12Now for what God says regarding the lying prophets:

"Can you believe it? A country teeming with adulterers!
faithless, promiscuous idolater-adulterers!
They're a curse on the land.
The land's a wasteland.
Their unfaithfulness
is turning the country into a cesspool,
Prophets and priests devoted to desecration.
They have nothing to do with me as their God.
My very own Temple, mind you—
mud-spattered with their crimes." God's Decree.
"But they won't get by with it.
They'll find themselves on a slippery slope,
Careening into the darkness,
somersaulting into the pitch-black dark.
I'll make them pay for their crimes.
It will be the Year of Doom." God's Decree.

13-14"Over in Samaria I saw prophets
acting like silly fools—shocking!
They preached using that no-god Baal for a text,
messing with the minds of my people.
And the Jerusalem prophets are even worse—horrible!—
sex-driven, living a lie,
Subsidizing a culture of wickedness,
and never giving it a second thought.
They're as bad as those wretches in old Sodom,
the degenerates of old Gomorrah."

15So here's the Message to the prophets from God-of-the-Angel-Armies:

"I'll cook them a supper of maggoty meat
with after-dinner drinks of strychnine.
The Jerusalem prophets are behind all this.
They're the cause of the godlessness polluting this country."

16-17A Message from God-of-the-Angel-Armies:

"Don't listen to the sermons of the prophets.
It's all hot air. Lies, lies, and more lies.
They make it all up.
Not a word they speak comes from me.
They preach their 'Everything Will Turn Out Fine' sermon
to congregations with no taste for God,
Their 'Nothing Bad Will Ever Happen to You' sermon
to people who are set in their own ways.

18-20"Have any of these prophets bothered to meet with me, the true God?
bothered to take in what I have to say?
listened to and then lived out my Word?
Look out! God's hurricane will be let loose—
my hurricane blast,
Spinning the heads of the wicked like tops!
God's raging anger won't let up
Until I've made a clean sweep,
completing the job I began.
When the job's done,
you'll see that it's been well done.

Quit the "God Told Me This" Kind of Talk
21-22"I never sent these prophets,
but they ran anyway.
I never spoke to them,
but they preached away.
If they'd have bothered to sit down and meet with me,
they'd have preached my Message to my people.
They'd have gotten them back on the right track,
gotten them out of their evil ruts.
23-24"Am I not a God near at hand"—God's Decree—
"and not a God far off?
Can anyone hide out in a corner
where I can't see him?"
God's Decree.
"Am I not present everywhere,
whether seen or unseen?"
God's Decree.

25-27"I know what they're saying, all these prophets who preach lies using me as their text, saying 'I had this dream! I had this dream!' How long do I have to put up with this? Do these prophets give two cents about me as they preach their lies and spew out their grandiose delusions? They swap dreams with one another, feed on each other's delusive dreams, trying to distract my people from me just as their ancestors were distracted by the no-god Baal.

28-29"You prophets who do nothing but dream—
go ahead and tell your silly dreams.
But you prophets who have a message from me—
tell it truly and faithfully.
What does straw have in common with wheat?
Nothing else is like God's Decree.
Isn't my Message like fire?" God's Decree.
"Isn't it like a sledgehammer busting a rock?

30-31"I've had it with the 'prophets' who get all their sermons secondhand from each other. Yes, I've had it with them. They make up stuff and then pretend it's a real sermon.

32"Oh yes, I've had it with the prophets who preach the lies they dream up, spreading them all over the country, ruining the lives of my people with their cheap and reckless lies.

"I never sent these prophets, never authorized a single one of them. They do nothing for this people—nothing!" God's Decree.

33"And anyone, including prophets and priests, who asks, 'What's God got to say about all this, what's troubling him?' tell him, 'You, you're the trouble, and I'm getting rid of you.'" God's Decree.

34"And if anyone, including prophets and priests, goes around saying glibly 'God's Message! God's Message!' I'll punish him and his family.

35-36"Instead of claiming to know what God says, ask questions of one another, such as 'How do we understand God in this?' But don't go around pretending to know it all, saying 'God told me this...God told me that....' I don't want to hear it anymore. Only the person I authorize speaks for me. Otherwise, my Message gets twisted, the Message of the living God-of-the-Angel-Armies.

37-38"You can ask the prophets, 'How did God answer you? What did he tell you?' But don't pretend that you know all the answers yourselves and talk like you know it all. I'm telling you: Quit the 'God told me this...God told me that...' kind of talk.

39-40"Are you paying attention? You'd better, because I'm about to take you in hand and throw you to the ground, you and this entire city that I gave to your ancestors. I've had it with the lot of you. You're never going to live this down. You're going down in history as a disgrace."

After Mike and Cyndi left, I ran into the reference again and again and went back to read it again. What I found jumping out at me was:

Verses 39 and 40 "Are you paying attention? You'd better, because I'm about to take you in hand and throw you to the ground, you and this entire city that I gave to your ancestors. I've had it with the lot of you. You're never going to live this down. You're going down in history as a disgrace."

I do not believe that Mike or Jeff paid particular attention to what the Word of God says about shepherds who prey on their flock and take advantage of their congregations wish to please God. Not necessarily please Mike and Jeff -- but God. They twisted the peoples wish to do what they felt the Lord wanted them to do to benefit themselves. I do believe that Jeff Barnes, Jeff Koellmer, and Ron Olin will continue to be disgraced for their role in taking advantage of the TPC congregation and bowing down to Mike Villamor. I believe that Mike and Cyndi Villamor will also continue to live in disgrace. Our choices present us with a banquet of consequences and in this case Mike Villamor, Cyndi Villamor, Jeff Barnes, Jeff Koellmer, and Ron Olin have chosen the bitter fruit of disgrace over manna from Heaven.

As D of D said, there is life after TPC. There are people willing to listen and help you move on and start your recovery from spiritual, mental, and emotional abuse at the hands of TPC leadership. Do not be afraid to seek that out.

Saddened

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jesuschristismydelight
D od D: and others:

I have been repeatedly been getting Jeremiah 23. Have or had you gotten these also.
I have decided to leave TP. I have not told any friends there yet. I love the people there and feel I may lose friends due to my departure. Even so, I must leave. Did you lose friends there?

I have been on the internet researching "John Bevere". There have been uncomplementary things said about him especially his book "Undercover". What is your opinion on this?

I also went to one session of John Bevere at Jake's house. I really did not get anything out of this. I do remember him stating that people that love money are broke. I disagree with this due the recession. I'm broke, but not due to the love of money.

To All:
What is your take on the above.

God Bless

I thought I lost friends, but when I really think about it, I just lost aquaintences, I would say a friend is transparent and honest, not pretending to be happy when sad, not pretending to be loving when ambitious and waiting to take your place, there comes a time when we must make a choice, our friends,our ambitions, or comfort, Or Gods truth. I have always in the past compromised the truth for personal comfort and wants. choosing the temporary things of this world over the eternal things of God comes easy for me, But as I get older I am compelled to take the road less traveled.
the thing about bevere and undercover, this came to me one day, the bible says we are to serve our masters, to submit to them even the wicked ones. John bevere worked for his pastor so his pastor was his boss, and it would be right for him to submit to him, (even though he didnt ) but our pastors are NOT our bosses they are not our lords on earth, or even the only voice of God like some think they are. They are a part of the body with a function to perform, they are supposed to be taking care of the shieep. and good sheperds are described all over the bible, they are supposed to make sure the needs of the sheep are met, and that the sheep are protected from enemies who want to prey on them. NOT make sure the sheperds needs are met. I remember once hearing cyndi get up in front of the church and say God spoke to me last night, He said return to your first love. I thought alright good word. instead of ambitous striving to be like hillsong, or be a star in the christian world, or seeking to be the leader of a mega church. cyndi is going to return to her first love Jesus,( and knowing her back at marshall elementry I believed Jesus was her love) but she turned the word on us out in the audience that God was speaking to us thruogh her, thats the problem when you become a prophet in your own eyes, all words are for someone else. I think the problem today is leaders are forgetting that we are all parts of a body none more important then the other. all needed to function as a whole. with Jesus being the head, not a part of the body being the head. I think about what paul said to those who folloed him or followed appollos , dont follow us follow the one we follow, you know the friends thing reminds me of how hard it was to leave the bars, thats where my friends were, it is also where death is, I finnally had to tell them look you can come with me, the door is open, but I cannot go back to where you are.

I have looked over the figures that were posted for the Stewardship Fund. I am dumb founded at how TPC Leadership could spend our money. The irresponsible and questionable expenditures made with our money shows an out of control senior pastor and elder board.

TPC Building Fund Accounting

Income - 895581.77
Interest- 12159.38
Total 907741.15

Expenditures:
Consulting Fees 51,918.30 - This is what TP paid the Stewardship people to tell then how to ask for money. (gggrrrr, this should have come out of the general fund)

Celebration Banquet/Hospitality 30,356.98 - This is what TP spent on food and thank yous Wouldn't a generic thank you card signed by Mike and the Elders have been enough? I attended the thank you dinner. It was not worth $30,356.98!

Administrative Fees 15,898.93 - What the heck is this? Yes, what is this? Did we pay a salary for someone to administrate the Stewardship fund? Is this Mike and companies way of hiding using Stewardship money for salaries?

New Property Searches 6,558.43 - Okay, maybe legit I already commented on this and it is not a valid expenditure by any stretch of the imagination.

Shuttle Purchase 7,652.56 - Shuttle purchased, then sold. Did money go back into the Bldg Fund? So how much was the bus sold for and what fund benefitted from the proceeds of the sale?

Move to the Jr High 169,900.44 - Trailers, chairs, sound equip, batteries, generators etc... ASK FOR DETAILED ACCOUNTING Unacceptable, I never understood why the church needed to move.


SubTotal 282,285.64 Yikes

Preschool Ministry 6,345.50 - How is this considered part of the building fund? ASK FOR DETAILED ACCOUNTING
Child Care Center 16,559.80 - This is completely seperate entity, why did it get money for PTL? ASK FOR DETAILED ACCOUNTING
SOMA Remodel 44,357.14 - Is SOMA part of the Bldg Fund? SAME AS ABOVE
Childrens Ministry 40,4663.89 - This may have purchased a trailer and bouncy houses- ASK FOR DETAILED ACCOUNTING
Worship Ministry 7,142.52 - YES this has to be part of purchasing a building
Sub total 114,871.85 None of these are an acceptable use of Stewardship money. This is not why we gave it. It is not a stated purpose of the Stewardship campaign.


Landscaping 2,269.01- HMMM Not an acceptable use of Stewardship money by any stretch of the imagination. Outrage does not even begin to cover our thoughts about this loan and Jeff Barnes' defense of doing it. This is not why we gave money to the Stewardship Fund. It was not a stated purpose of the Stewardship campaign.
Property Loan Payments 233,765.97 Okay maybe
Loan & Appraisal Fees 7,535.00 Okay maybe
Sub Total 243,569.98

Loan to General Fund 59,000.00 (Severance Packages) There should be major outrage here. None of these are an acceptable use of Stewardship money. This is not why we gave it. It is not a stated purpose of the Stewardship campaign.


Less Payments on Loan - 10,900.00
Sub Total 48, 100.00

Sub Total all expenditures 688, 827.47 ------ How much of this went to purchasing a building?

Total Income 907,741.15
Less Expenditures -688,827.47
Total Left Cash on Hand 218, 913.68

Cash in Cascade Bank account - Siezed by bank 167,468.83
Edward Jones Account (Available to spend) 51, 444.85
Total 218, 913.68

Loan History for only the severance packages - 59,000.00
Repayment amount with interest 64,042.00
Less Payments from general fund -10,900.00
Total Loan Balance 53,142.00



So at the end of the day, Mike and the Elders squandered nearly $500,000.00 dollars of our money. They used it for everything except what the told us they needed the money for. TPC is in debt up to their ears. No wonder Jeff didn't want to give out this information! We were scammed and robbed! We waited to file a court action but this does it for us.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2011 10:39AM by Daughter of Dorcas.

D od D:

Were funds taken out of the Stewardship Campaign for Cindy and the worship team to cut their CD?

Were funds taken out of these same monies to pay Mike's severance pay? I don't know if this is rumor or not that funds submitted to him was $100K.

Did not see these line items on your detailed accounting sheet?

God Bless.

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jesuschristismydelight
Misleadsoul:

I visited the Marysville 4-sq church on state Ave. yesterday. It was so refreshing and I could feel the Holy Spirit's presence so much I cried. I so missed this at TP. Another church I heard was great is the New Life Church in Everett. D of D mentions in a previous blog that she is going to a 4-sq church in Arlington. See her previous blog. I do hope TP can eventually be rebuilt but some things need to be addressed in a forum with the current members and members that left.

1. If Pastor Jackie was addressed of misappropriation of funds before the whole congregation than the false accusations toward here need to be addressed in front of the whole congregation.

2. All leaders that were taught the harsh misconduct of authority towards others need to be there to repent in front of the congregation . This includes all ALL staff members because many were affected by this.

3. Accounting of how the Stewardship Campaign funds were utilized should be be distributed to the congregation (current and former members) to reflect how these funds were utilized and why. If the congregation was told that funds were earmarked for land, structures and a future new building than it should have been done. If people that contributed to the Stewardship campaign want their money back due to misappriopration of funds it should be given back.

4. False doctrine was introduced to the congregation (Faith Movement and Possibility Thinking). The root of these false doctrines are occultic. This invited demonic forces into the church. Repentance should be done and the church resanctified to remove this presence.

Again, most of the above should be done in an open forum with the leaders and congregation present. If honesty and open discussions were accomplished I believe the rebuilding can start. God Bless.

Marysville New Life has NO accountability for the leaders or the pastor. While they are nice people, the church is run based upon who is popular with the pastor making all the decisions with people he likes. There is no church body input or voting. The elders are hand picked by the pastor. They are also looking at becoming "roommates" at Judah Praise Center another hot bed of cultish behavior buying into the apostolistic movement. I'd run away form there quickly.