David is deceived. He goes to books instead of the Word of God. If an eartly father points out his child's wrongs in order to correct him and set him on the straight path, how much more our heavenly father. He's just gonna let me go on hurting myself? I don't think so!

John 16:8 (NEB) "When he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will convict the world, and show where right and wrong and judgment lie. He will convict them of wrong..."

When he [the Holy Spirit] is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." John 15:26 says that the Holy Spirit would testify to the world about Christ. But now we see another aspect of the Spirit's ministry: bringing conviction of sin. He reveal man's sin and that compels man to seek God's mercy through the work of Christ on the cross. Therefore, we know that no man will come to Christ until he recognizes his sinfulness.

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wherefromhere
OMG! Get your own forum ostra. Do one post instead of 500. What is up? Someone check out UGM website? What a joke. Sorry M & C dont see much on your event page. God is a judge, and I think you are being judged. Anyone else think so?

I kinda agree ostra not about getting your own forum site, but we are being swamped with imformation on cults, I have to wade through the same imformation written by someone else on cults when I myself(and I admit its not about me) like to read peoples personal experiences with turning point. I think we know tp is unhealthy. When I see all your posts I cant help but think you are really hurt. unfortunatly for us, we have to live by Gods standards even if leaders of a church we use to go to don't. for our own sanity we MUST forgive, that doesnt mean we have to support them anymore but we must forgive and pray that God opens their eyes. to keep pointing a million things that points to something we already know seems counterproductive.

Getting information on cult's is kinda what one would expect to receive on a CULT EDUCATION FORUM unless I am mistaken ! When you say "we are being swamped with information on cults" , you take a traditional programmed CULT MEMBER "them" versus "us" stance,or in this instance "I" being me and "we" being everybody else on the forum unless I am mistaken !

By posting information on CULTs I am not making you "wade through" the information.You can skip over my posts if they hit too close to home.There is a moderator on the forum so I assume I have complied to the rules to date as far as posting about a cult on a cult forum ! And yes you did admit it was "about you" when you declared "I have to wade through the information".

As part of the checklists or warning signs about how cults operate or whether you are in one : you will find should "you" choose to compare what I have submitted about CULTS that TPWOC embodies almost any and/or all characteristics of a CULT !

Obviously one of the things you are not going to hear or read is personal experiences especially those that may lead to anymore harm by those that have already suffered at the hands of TPWOC ! "us" versus "them" is all Mike taught !Do you remember his "how many of you know there are lions out there crap"? Sounds to me like another Cult tactic confirmed ! Say it to your neighbor "sounds like another CULT tactic confirmed". Sorry,I am making a funny !

If you think that the number of my posts is proportionate to my being"hurt"you are mistaken ! It is from pure freedom that I can express my personal experiences at Turning Point Cult. Besides that there are many people with far more posts than me,3,4,5,6,700 , so maybe you ought to send an offer of healing help their way ! I have all the help I need !

I am feeling like I am living up to God's standards for "calling out" TPWOC for what it is , a CULT by any and all definitions presented as evidence in my prior posts that are there for you to examine should you choose to wade through them ! You say that "we" know TP is unhealthy , "we" have to live by GOD's standards ,"we" have to forgive to keep our sanity , I say I never supported them not a single cent , walked out on many a' money beggin' session and I am proud of that ! I say that TP is beyond unhealthy it is a CULT, I say we don't have to live by God's standards (free will) for it is stated that all men will fall short and all men sin, some recognize their "sins", some run to have their ears tickled in a "place" where sin is covered by their earth-bound , false apostle , who has chosen not to live by or teach God's standards !

I will never have to forgive or pray that God will open the greed-dogs eyes,for their eyes are too focused on the possesions and wealth of the world for GOD to forgive them . If you read the bible you will see once you blaspheme the HOLY SPIRIT there is no TURNINGPOINT ! You have damned yourself to hell , and all those that follow you , to have done it from the stage of a so-called shepard ! God will judge Mike and those that support him ! One last thing , there can be no repentance by the greed dogs , or asking for forgiveness of the congregation or any kind of change in their doctrine at this point,it would be a nail in their coffin !

That would be confessing that everything they had taught up to that point was B.S. , LIES and DECEPTION for profit and that the sheep had wasted how ever many years of their lives in a CULT "chasing their tails"or Mikes "tales"instead of GOD ! Everyone turn to your neighbor and say Mikes tales ! My guess is they will continue to operate out of the darkness through fear,intimidation,lies,deception,love bombing,covering yadyadayada ! God will open the eyes of those he wants to see the light,he will open the ears of those he wants to hear and GOD will deal with those that choose to extort !

God Bless america and the freedom of speech and expression !



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2010 12:56AM by ostracizedone.

Ostracizedone thanks for sharing lol. I was just thinking why did I pledge and make good on my pledge for a building fund to a church that profess's to be a church planting church, when you get too big you plant a new church. they never did build a new building anyway my pledge was thrown away on mike and cyndi's ambitions. anyway about this cult forum. the title is turning point church tell your story. and the forum is destructive church's. there is so much b s teachings at turningpoint, bad doctrine, selfseeking, ambitious leaders, and people practicing the fruit of the world instead of the spirit. these are things enough to make a person leave. or they should be. I do believe this forum was created for former memebers to share their stories to achieve some place to recieve healing by being honest. and the animity was to assure no retaliation from turningpoint, which I'm sure is reading these things. and probably wrongly decerning who each poster is. So I can see where wherefromhere is coming from. can you? or do you just need to be right. anyway I dont mean to offend you, we probably are friends. and by the way I do skip all the cult imformation and have to keep resetting my favorites to the last page lol.

I gave monthly to the building fund trusting the leadership. I did not know at the time about Mike's personal sacrifice by moving into the big house in the exclusive neighborhood. I did not know about false Apostle Tony Cunningham being false Apostle Mikes Villamors spiritual father and all the false teaching at Soma (PNBC) by Mike. I was not in the inner circle and it took awhile before I found out about how deeply Mike embraced the prosperity Word- faith, covering of the Apostle, double honor stuff. If it was not for the Forum it would of took longer to find out just how delusional Mike really was. From my personal experience with people who have came out of the cults. Someone once said that people in the cults are so decieved that they have to be taken back to being lost again before they will see the truth and leave the cult .Its easier to talk to a lost person then it is to a decieved person. Also I was told to repeat,repeat and repeat scripture and informaton with people in the cults. Some times it takes twenty years sharing the same scriptures and information before there eyes are opened. I was told to never give up!

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I gave monthly to the building fund trusting the leadership. I did not know at the time about Mike's personal sacrifice by moving into the big house in the exclusive neighborhood. I did not know about false Apostle Tony Cunningham being false Apostle Mikes Villamors spiritual father and all the false teaching at Soma (PNBC) by Mike. I was not in the inner circle and it took awhile before I found out about how deeply Mike embraced the prosperity Word- faith, covering of the Apostle, double honor stuff. If it was not for the Forum it would of took longer to find out just how delusional Mike really was. From my personal experience with people who have came out of the cults. Someone once said that people in the cults are so decieved that they have to be taken back to being lost again before they will see the truth and leave the cult .Its easier to talk to a lost person then it is to a decieved person. Also I was told to repeat,repeat and repeat scripture and informaton with people in the cults. Some times it takes twenty years sharing the same scriptures and information before there eyes are opened. I was told to never give up!

what sucks is jeff barnes never even completed his pledge, I guess he never heard about let your yays be yay and nays be nay, I know through his teachings in soma that resolutions ment nothing to him, we were asked to come up with resolutions to God in order to pass his class,

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I was at the christian book store today and looked at the book "Destined to Reign" by Joseph Prince, the secret to effortless success, wholeness and victorious living. Dave Luster came up with that the Holy Spirit does not convict you of sin from this book and has been pushing it and wants everbody to read it.

(on page 134) Does the Holy Spirit convict you of sin? That is a very good question and the answer is really simple. Now pay attention to this because it will liberate you. The bottom line is the Holy Spirit never convicts you of your sin.

(on page 139) For generations, the body of Christ has been defeated and put under a constant siege of condemnation from the accuser because they believe wrongly that the Holy Spirit convicts believers of their sins.

( I don't know about you but when the Holy Spirit convicts me of my personal sin, I go to 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I looked up a book by Bill Bright," The Holy Spirit" the key to supernatural living. And Bill Bright says that the Holy Spirit does convict (believers) you of sin. Dave is getting his false doctrines from a book like his spiritual father the false Apostle Mike who came up with the double honor stuff and the covering of the apostle from a book. Jeff Rock Barnes is now on this possibilty thinking conquest and now fearless Dave Luster is getting all goofy. Bill Bright and Joseph Prince can not be both right on the Holy Spirit. One of them is wrong. Which one is wrong? I have been a christian for a long time and the Holy Spirit seems to makes me aware of my sin more now then before , i believe so I can confess it and be cleansed. If my thinking on this is off base please correct me.

Any man who says the Holy Spirit does not convict you of your sin is a liar and a fraud. From such men you should run far away for they do not teach the Word of God. They teach only that which will enrich their bank accounts and swell their pride.

John 16

5"Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

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Any man who says the Holy Spirit does not convict you of your sin is a liar and a fraud. From such men you should run far away for they do not teach the Word of God. They teach only that which will enrich their bank accounts and swell their pride.

John 16

5"Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Now Dave L, Jeff M, and Jeff B, will tell you, "This doesn't apply to Christians. Only to the world." If this is True, why does Jesus say, "Unless I go away, the Counselor (another name for the Holy Spirit) will not come to YOU (the True Believer); But if I go, I will send him (the Holy Spirit) to YOU (the believer).

Now Dave and the Jeffs will point to verse 8 and say, "See...right there...the Holy Spirit didnt come to convict believers but came to convict the world. And everyone knows we believers are not of this world." To that I say, PROVE IT!

Prove that YOU are not of this world. Stop living like you are of this world.
Stop eating and drinking;
Stop paying your bills;
stop using money;
stop breathing;
stop gaining weight;
stop getting sick;
stop lusting;
stop coveting;
stop stealing;
stop judging;
Stop!

If you are not of this world, then stop acting like you are of this world.
You eat like you are in this world;
you sleep like you are in this world;
you dress like you are in this world;
you talk about others like you are in this world;
as long as you are confined by the laws of this world you are part of this world.

Can you defy gravity?
Can you go without oxygen?
Can you go without food and water?
Can you go without sleep?

No?

Then you are part of this world.
And if you are part of this world then Jesus sent his Holy Spirit into this world to convict YOU of your guilt.

When you sin, Dave, how do you know? If the Holy Spirit tells you that you have spoken unlovingly to your wife is that not the Holy Spirit convicting you of your sin? Or, are we to believe that you are free of sin? What does God's Word tell us about the man who says he has no sin?

To deny God's Word is to deny God. You perverters of God and of His Word!

First you lead people astray by teaching from John Bevere's Book on Covering. Now you continue leading people astray by teaching from Joseph Princes' book Destined to Reign. You read a book by a man then you teach it as if it were God's Word. In so doing you deny the Truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2010 10:47PM by TurningPointReject.

For David Luster: If you are SO concerned that people will think you are a Word Faith teacher and you truly do not want to be categorized as such then....why not just start preaching the WORD OF GOD. Choose a book in the BIBLE. Go through it verse by verse. You may be amazed at how the lives of the people in your church will change just by teaching them the Word of God. Do you not remember that the Word is living and active?? It has POWER to change lives. But frickin (yes I can use that word because YOU allowed it in your FRICKIN bulletin) self-help CRAP will not change lives. Why can't you f***in get that DAVE? WHY?? I will never understand this. You are a preacher/teacher called to TEACH THE WORD OF GOD. Dammit Dave. Why don't you JUST DO IT? And while you're at it. Going to hear Creflo Dollar at Casey Treat's church pretty much puts you in league with the Word Faith camp -- now doesn't it? Have you even taken the time to really learn what Creflo and Casey believe. Go ahead. YouTube Creflo. Then repent. FRICKIN REPENT! Your beliefs and your teaching sicken me! So thankful I found a church where the Word is actually preached. Pure and simple. The Word of God. WOW what a frickin concept.

Rom 8:13 “... by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, then you will live.”

Does the Holy Spirit Convict Believers of Their Sin? It depends. Do you Believe God Corrects those He Love?


Someone points out the following:

In Revelation 3, Jesus is addressing his church (believers) and says, "Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline"

The Greek work used in Rev 3:19 is elegcho. It is the same word used in John 16:8, “And He, when He comes, He will convict (elegcho) the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment”. The word elecho can mean to convince, convict, rebuke, discipline, correct, punish and bring to light or expose wrong doing.

So does the Holy Spirit convict believers of sin? Absolutely! “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” (Rev. 3:22) It is part of the sanctification and regeneration work of God in our lives. We know the devil won’t convict us of sin, he only condemns. It is very clear that it is the Spirit who will convict sin as mentioned in John 16:8.

I do have an idea as to how the Holy Spirit can both convict the believer of their sin and still be full of grace and mercy. It started when i read Proverbs 3:12, "For the Lord corrects those he loves, just as a father corrects a child in whom he delights." (or Heb 12:6) I also started to think about Ecc 3 (a time and place for everything).

So, knowing that its the goodness of God that leads men to repentance, is it possible that to the degree we have a realization of how bad our situation was (or is) is the degree that we have realization of how good God was (or is). Perhaps that Holy Spirit conviction and the grace/mercy of God go hand in hand and are used as tools by God to get us into right relationship with him - One pushing (conviction) and the other pulling (grace/mercy) - much like the rod and the staff of a shepherd. One shows us where we miss the mark and the other is waiting to receive us in spite of our faults, knowing that justification has taken place.

I would think this process starts with salvation and continues on into sanctification because he who began that good work is faithful to complete it (Phil 1:6).