Tony Cunningham is posing to be an apostle of Jesus Christ.

Just like the apostle John or Paul, but here is the deal,
Tony has his own religion that goes against some of the basic 10 Commandments like;

“Honor Your Father and Mother” and

“Do Not Give False Testimony”

Yes Tony poses to be a Christian minister but delve into his deeper teachings of Spiritual Parenting, Covenant Relationships, Spiritual Authority and Heart of David etc.

Yes you to can learn to be accepted by Tony you will have to disown your parents, make a secret covenant with him or one of his sycophant elders and open up your pocket book!

If you have friends assocoated with TONY

GET THEM OUT!

And if your still there wondering what to do....

GET OUT!!

THE SHIP IS SINKING!

Here are a few comments or questions I have either personally made or had friends tell me them regarding turingpoint and its teaching. I would love for people to post there comments on what they think on this forum.

“I still feel like the holy spirit is there in worship, when that leaves I will leave.”

“I have never been to a church were people are as serious about God and as many people are getting saved. So what if they focus a little to much on authority etc...”

“_________ is really Godly why hasn't he seen this?” Or “why are you the only one sees these things.”

“Are you ever going to find a church that you agree with 100%.”

“So what if there are stupid people in the church who worship the pastor. I worship God and don't see why I should have to leave just because of them.”

“If Tony Cunningham (assuming he is everything that is described by the forum) were the pastor of a church, and 1 million people were getting saved every week in his ministry, would you attend his church?”

Is the fact that the church believes the pastor is an apostle and all the other things which M&M described mean that I have to leave the church immediately. Can I not stay, disagree and pray for change.

Here is a testimony I heard about at the church. I don't remember if I heard it directly either way I believe what they said:

They were attending a college about 45 minutes from marysville. While at college they had not really been seeking God, although they were still a Christian. One day while in prayer this person heard God tell them to go to marysville and learn about discipleship. (or something like that). So they decide to attend a church in marysville and walked into the doors of Turning point. The church was right in the middle a year long series called, “Discipleship, into the nations.”


If my church is so terrible why would God send someone specifically to learn about the part which is apperantly one of the worst parts? Or was this person deceived and really heard a demons voice.

One of the biggest problems I have in evaluating the church is the fact that God seems to be blessing the church through his holy spirit, salvation, healing and even speaking to people who know nothing about the church and telling them to attend it. If the church is evil and wrong why would God do this?

When the pastor is called an apostle most people have never heard of this teaching. No other church they have gone to has taught it. And the pastor carries himself in a way they have never seen. Chances are they used to go to a church of 30 people who saw one person saved every year. They then walk into a church with many people who are seeking after God with all there heart. In evaluating the apostlship teaching unless you have talked to someone who can explain why it is wrong you will most likely see this teaching as an explanation for the positive differences between there old church and new one. Also the fact that so many other people who they respect don't seem to object to it.

what is the average age, spiritual experience, and maturity of those making the comments. All of the comments sound somewhat programmed and immature. And Pastor tony has and will never pastor a church of one million. The church grew fast and is now crumbling. If the teachings and salvations were true at RLC there wouldnt be so much of a mess.

I just wanted to add that all of those statements are ones that all of us could have said at one time. Everything mentioned in the comments are smokescreen stuff and do not really get to the heart of what mike is teaching and doing. There are people getting saved all over the world so TP shouldnt be a good church or so wonderful because people are getting saved there all the time. those salvations always walk out the door. That was a big thing at RLC. The big numbers game. Tony would talk every sunday about how many consecutive sundays people have been saved in the sanctuary. Truth is Tony didn't care about those people except for the number they represented to the church.
It seems that TPR from your comments has become very cliquish/cultish/exclusive. Just my thoughts. The videos on you tube and god tube are pathetic. The comments about Tony as apostle and Mikes glee as a spiritual son are saddening. Here is an article that was posted a while ago. Sometimes the spirit of the church is created or manipulated to further the purposes of the leader and leadership. I dont know if the article below applies to TP but thought it should also be posted on here since there are so many similarities between RLC and TP

Beware of Love Bombing
Leonard Brenner

Love-bombing is characteristic of most cults. Prospects, recruits and members are drowned in a sea of love and caring.

Recently in an evangelical church I heard the pastor describe his visit to two cultic groups in which he praised their love-bombing and urged that his church adopt the same loving attitude towards visitors and members.

Should the evangelical church practice love-bombing? Is this what Christ meant when he said, "By this will all men know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another," (John 13:35)?

I've heard cult members say, "Of course we practice love-bombing: Who'd want to be in a group or church that practiced hate-bombing?" This attitude highlights a common misconception. Hate-bombing is not the opposite of love-bombing.

The opposite of love-bombing is unconditional love. Love-bombing is highly conditional.

The cults will love you to death while you represent a prospective convert to their group. As a member a tight family love will surround you as you faithfully promote their cause.

However, when it is clear that a prospect will not join the group or a member voices doubts, create waves, or leaves the group, all love ceases.

Indeed scorn is immediately heaped on these individuals and remaining members are told not to have any contact with them.

All time, effort and love-bombing is then directed towards new prospects and the faithful members. Is this the love evangelical churches should practice?

Unconditional love is what God practiced when he sent his Son to die for us "while we were yet sinners," (Romans 5:8).

He doesn't love us because we might become or are his faithful servants. He simply loves us. He will disapprove of our sin and approve of our faith but He will always love us.

Churches need to love visitors because they are humans created in God's image and not because they are prospective members. The love needs to continue if the visitor chooses to associate with another group of believers.

Problem members need to be loved even if they create problems or leave in a huff. Christians need to practice God's kind of love.

Beware of the love-bomb.

The example of him pastoring a church of one million obvioulsy will never happen.

By using an extreme example I was hoping to isolate this issue. Does the fruit in salvation have any relation to evaluating the beliefs of the church and if you should attend it or not. Thank you for sharing that tony doesn't have a million people at his church, but I am well aware of this.

I guess that it somewhat answers the question in that if one million people get saved, when the church falls apart how many will lose there faith.

As for these comments being immature:
I posted these comments so that you could intelegently answer as if someone from tp were saying these to you. If you were to go back in time to when people didn't know if the earth was round or flat, you would most likley think those saying the earth was flat are stupid or immature. I believe that this is how it appear from your perspective at least. Just like if you were to go back in time and meet someone who believed the earth was flat, in replying to these comments it is most helpful to explian and use reasons why you believe differently.

-- looking back at them I can see that I did write these comments very quickley from different conversations I had most of them a long time ago. although they may appear immature I still beleive that the issues they bring up are worth answering and I have heard different versions of those questions several times from real people. Someone who has been hurt by RLC may see things as black and white and therefore think someone from turingpoint who says these things is immature. If while in a situation things were so black and white I don't think that any cult would exist today. To see this all you have to do is look at the fact that people still attend RCL even after all that has happened.

Why did RCL grow? From reading the forum it looks like it started out healthy and changed over time. At what point in this change should one leave the church?

Did any of you out there realize that Turning Point has a "secret" discipler booklet?????


www.scribd.com/doc/766452/Turning-Point-Discipler-Booklet?query2=discipler - 81k -

or google school of ministry arts soma

I hope it aint true. That shows some serious insecurity. All that Jesus supplied was out in the open.

---

This is in response to the post made November 03, 2008 04:24AM by what a joke.

I tried to Google search and enter the url you provided but was not able to find the mysterious document. I believe the one you are talking about is the new believer 4s dicpler manual. Although it has the word discipler in it, there is nothing that anyone on this forum would consider wrong. The course has 4 lessons for new believers covering the basics of the faith. I think that if you were to give a copy to anyone on this forum they would find nothing wrong with it.

If the secret document you are talking about is a different one I mentioned above I would love to hear about it.

One of the questions I am always asking myself is if those on this forum are just bitter and making things up. For the most part I would say no. However compare what you wrote to the following:

I found ______________ on the following web site. Can someone from TP explain what it means because it looks like ______________.


Let me know if I read your post incorrectly.

Thanks Northwest for your post. These are all good questions. I appreciate you taking time to post here. I will respond to each of you points in RED.

Quote
Northwest
Here are a few comments or questions I have either personally made or had friends tell me them regarding turingpoint and its teaching. I would love for people to post there comments on what they think on this forum.

“I still feel like the holy spirit is there in worship, when that leaves I will leave.” This is a response based on feelings. And these feelings are falsely attributed to the "Holy Spirit" when in reality it is an emotional response to the music. There is nothing wrong with experiencing an emotional response to music. It is quite natural as all music evokes emotion. The temptation is to attach those emotions to "the Holy Spirit". The apostle Paul in all his writings did not warn people to leave when they stopped having an emotional response. He consistently warned against FALSE TEACHING. It is the teaching that is to be the barometer.

“I have never been to a church were people are as serious about God and as many people are getting saved. So what if they focus a little to much on authority etc...”What does it mean to be "serious about God"? Is teaching false doctrine really "serious about God"? Those who are serious about God are careful how they handle the Word of God.

“_________ is really Godly why hasn't he seen this?” Or “why are you the only one sees these things.”What are the marks of a Godly person? Also is it possible they do see but dont know what to do? or feel alone in what they see? or choose not to see because they fear 'stepping out from under the covering'?

“Are you ever going to find a church that you agree with 100%.”Yes, believe it or not, many people find Bible teaching churches that they completely agree with because these churches teach truth.

“So what if there are stupid people in the church who worship the pastor. I worship God and don't see why I should have to leave just because of them.”No one is asking anyone to leave anything. I think what is being asked is that leaders be accountable for their teachings, behavior, and mistakes.

“If Tony Cunningham (assuming he is everything that is described by the forum) were the pastor of a church, and 1 million people were getting saved every week in his ministry, would you attend his church?” This is a straw man argument. Look at all the people who "were saved" under the teaching of Jim Jones (you may be too young to remember "The Peoples Temple". They "got saved" and attended Jim Jones church. THey followed him and succumbed to his false teachings. Ultimately they died for their beliefs. Why? because Jones commanded them to drink the Kool Aid. No you should not decide to attend a 'church' simply because "lots of people are getting saved there".

Is the fact that the church believes the pastor is an apostle and all the other things which M&M described mean that I have to leave the church immediately. Can I not stay, disagree and pray for change. Yes you can stay. You may disagree. You can pray for change. Many people do exactly what you are suggesting.

Here is a testimony I heard about at the church. I don't remember if I heard it directly either way I believe what they said:

They were attending a college about 45 minutes from marysville. While at college they had not really been seeking God, although they were still a Christian. One day while in prayer this person heard God tell them to go to marysville and learn about discipleship. (or something like that). So they decide to attend a church in marysville and walked into the doors of Turning point. The church was right in the middle a year long series called, “Discipleship, into the nations.”


If my church is so terrible why would God send someone specifically to learn about the part which is apperantly one of the worst parts? Or was this person deceived and really heard a demons voice.No one has said your church is terrible. The question has been about the teaching and affiliation with RLC and Tony Cunningham. Could the person have been deceived? Do you believe people are capable of being deceived?

One of the biggest problems I have in evaluating the church is the fact that God seems to be blessing the church through his holy spirit, salvation, healing and even speaking to people who know nothing about the church and telling them to attend it. If the church is evil and wrong why would God do this? Your assumption is that "God is doing all this". Again, the question is what does the church teach? Is the teaching of the church biblical or is it false teaching?

When the pastor is called an apostle most people have never heard of this teaching.First, who determines that the pastor is an apostle? Secondly, why do so many churches not agree with the teaching of the New Apostolic Reformation? No other church they have gone to has taught it. And the pastor carries himself in a way they have never seenHow does the pastor carry himself? The Bible talks quite abit about how the Christian is to carry himself. Does the way your pastor carry himself line up with how Christ commands his followers to carry themselves?. Chances are they used to go to a church of 30 people who saw one person saved every year. Is that one person any less important than any other life?They then walk into a church with many people who are seeking after God with all there heart. In evaluating the apostlship teaching unless you have talked to someone who can explain why it is wrong you will most likely see this teaching as an explanation for the positive differences between there old church and new one. Also the fact that so many other people who they respect don't seem to object to it.Why didnt the mass of people object to the false teachings of Jim Johns or David Koresh or any of the other false teachers in modern history?Perhaps they didnt know what scripture says. Perhaps when they questioned the leaders, the leader responded saying they teaching was "a new revelation". Perhaps when they did question the leaders refused to listen to them. The members of Jim Jones felt strongly about seeking after god with all their heart. They believed their church was filled with the holy spirit. Their teacher carried himself in a way not seen in other pastors. And the majority of them ended up dead. Why? Because they chose to follow a teacher who tickled their ears. They chose to follow a teacher who was focused a little to much on teaching about his "authority".

Northwest if you would like to read more about Jim Jones and his 'church' then see this link [www.culteducation.com]

People Who Live In Glass Houses Should Not Throw Stones

Northwest, I would like to attempt to answer some of your questions, please see my response in bold:

Here are a few comments or questions I have either personally made or had friends tell me them regarding turingpoint and its teaching. I would love for people to post there comments on what they think on this forum.

“I still feel like the holy spirit is there in worship, when that leaves I will leave.” Consider this God's grace. I am sure that there are Godly men and women in the church and God's word says that he will never leave us or forsake us. The good news is that the Holy Spirit is everywhere.

“I have never been to a church were people are as serious about God and as many people are getting saved. So what if they focus a little to much on authority etc...” Does the end justify the means? If people were getting saved because someone was on the corner handing out $100 bills for anyone who raised their hand - would that count as 'salvation'? Then why do we count the hands of people who raise their hands based on false teaching? Have they been saved or have they been manipulated? The real fruit is displayed in a changed life not a hand that is raised. You cannot determine if a life is changed if you don't follow up with all of those hands that were raised.

“_________ is really Godly why hasn't he seen this?” Or “why are you the only one sees these things.” To judge based on the appearance that someone else is Godly is putting your trust in man and not God. What is God saying to you?

“Are you ever going to find a church that you agree with 100%.” No you won't. But when the scripture is manipulated, twisted and taught out of context and the pastor and leaders refuse to explain the teaching or simply state 'that's what is being taught'; it's time to leave.

“So what if there are stupid people in the church who worship the pastor. I worship God and don't see why I should have to leave just because of them.” You shouldn't leave a church because someone else is acting stupid - let's face it; the churches would be empty if that were the case; however, if this is a practice demonstrated by several people and it has been brought to the leadership's attention and nothing is done about it; I would say you might want to make an exit plan.

“If Tony Cunningham (assuming he is everything that is described by the forum) were the pastor of a church, and 1 million people were getting saved every week in his ministry, would you attend his church?” No! The end does not justify the means. 'Salvation' is not a litmus test; the word of God is.

Is the fact that the church believes the pastor is an apostle and all the other things which M&M described mean that I have to leave the church immediately. Can I not stay, disagree and pray for change. Again, what would God have you do? Christianity is all about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ; it is not about following man. It could very well be God has called some to stay and fight the fight through prayer, that is something only you can answer.

Here is a testimony I heard about at the church. I don't remember if I heard it directly either way I believe what they said:

They were attending a college about 45 minutes from marysville. While at college they had not really been seeking God, although they were still a Christian. One day while in prayer this person heard God tell them to go to marysville and learn about discipleship. (or something like that). So they decide to attend a church in marysville and walked into the doors of Turning point. The church was right in the middle a year long series called, “Discipleship, into the nations.”


If my church is so terrible why would God send someone specifically to learn about the part which is apperantly one of the worst parts? Or was this person deceived and really heard a demons voice. I don't know the answer - only God does. Another thing to consider is maybe this person was called to this church for a completely different purpose such as intercessory prayer.

One of the biggest problems I have in evaluating the church is the fact that God seems to be blessing the church through his holy spirit, salvation, healing and even speaking to people who know nothing about the church and telling them to attend it. If the church is evil and wrong why would God do this? God is a gracious God and he continues to move. How many times in your life has God given you something that you didn't deserve? On the flip side, Satan is the master of disguise. He was able to confuse the Isrealites while Moses was trying to free them from the hands of Pharoah.

When the pastor is called an apostle most people have never heard of this teaching. No other church they have gone to has taught it. And the pastor carries himself in a way they have never seen. Chances are they used to go to a church of 30 people who saw one person saved every year. They then walk into a church with many people who are seeking after God with all there heart. In evaluating the apostlship teaching unless you have talked to someone who can explain why it is wrong you will most likely see this teaching as an explanation for the positive differences between there old church and new one. Also the fact that so many other people who they respect don't seem to object to it.

I hope I have been able to shed some light on your questions. I do not know the pastor at Turning Point but I can speak first hand of how the twisting of scriptures has hurt many people at RLC. If Turning Point has the same charaterstics I would be extremely cautious. My hope is that you will continue to press into the Lord and ask Him to reveal His truth to you.

Quote
Northwest

Did any of you out there realize that Turning Point has a "secret" discipler booklet?????


www.scribd.com/doc/766452/Turning-Point-Discipler-Booklet?query2=discipler - 81k -

or google school of ministry arts soma

I hope it aint true. That shows some serious insecurity. All that Jesus supplied was out in the open.

---

This is in response to the post made November 03, 2008 04:24AM by what a joke.

I tried to Google search and enter the url you provided but was not able to find the mysterious document. I believe the one you are talking about is the new believer 4s dicpler manual. Although it has the word discipler in it, there is nothing that anyone on this forum would consider wrong. The course has 4 lessons for new believers covering the basics of the faith. I think that if you were to give a copy to anyone on this forum they would find nothing wrong with it.

If the secret document you are talking about is a different one I mentioned above I would love to hear about it.

One of the questions I am always asking myself is if those on this forum are just bitter and making things up. For the most part I would say no. However compare what you wrote to the following:

I found ______________ on the following web site. Can someone from TP explain what it means because it looks like ______________.


Let me know if I read your post incorrectly.

You read my post incorrectly.


TPR and Free2bme have done a good job of addressing your issues. I have explained myself enough on here and choose not to explain my comments at this time about maturity in the church. The issue has been covered extensively already on these forums. As to the issue of bitterness we have already discussed in a pm. The comment above is not the manner in which I made my comment. I believe TPR is heavily influenced by Tony because of Mikes relationship and reverence for him. This has been discussed on these forums already.

I am not sure who said what, but....if you clear your address bar and copy and paste this whole address:
www.scribd.com/doc/766452/Turning-Point-Discipler-Booklet?query2=discipler - 81k - , including the hyphen at the end after 81k, then you get this response:


You don't have permission to view this document. (Why not?) Click on the Why not, and it brings up this response:

The owner of this document has chosen for this document to be secret -- only people with the correct password can view it. You must contact the owner of the document and ask for the secret URL to view the document.

I have taken a look at the New Believer-discipler manual and, this is not, I believe, what whatajoke was referring to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2008 03:07PM by longtimer60.