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Daughter of Dorcas
We got a letter from the Attorney General's office and they want to know about complaints by folks who feel they should have been given the chance to decide whether they wanted there money back when TPC decided to use it in ways and for expenditures that the Stewardship Campaign Donations were never meant to be used for. It seems that churches (clergy) and politicians are exempt from the Consumer Protection Laws of Washington State. Imagine that! So I am going to make telephone calls tomorrow to find out about filing a lawsuit in small claims court and what the $$$ amount limits are for that route and what the costs would be. I will let you know what I find out.

D of D

If the AG's office is still asking questions it could mean that they are looking into a fraud case. Consumer Protection laws doesn't cover deliberate crimes against the public and fraud falls under that doesn't it? If Mike's intent can be shown to be deliberate then he could still be charged. When people are harmed, the system can usually find a charge to match it.

That is not exactly what they said and I don't care to read anything into the response. I just advised what was communicated to us. Speculation is not sufficient to elaborate on, so I think I will refrain.

D of D

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Mville04
If the AG's office is still asking questions it could mean that they are looking into a fraud case. Consumer Protection laws doesn't cover deliberate crimes against the public and fraud falls under that doesn't it? If Mike's intent can be shown to be deliberate then he could still be charged. When people are harmed, the system can usually find a charge to match it.

Very well then; what DID the AG's office "exactly" say. Post their exact response here. The thing is that I don't get why the AG is addressing this as a "consumer protection" matter in the first place. Churches are not businesses so it doesn't apply right off the bat. But some laws under that RCW are things like identity theft for example. There is no way that if a Pastor stole someones identity and used this to commit theft for example that he would be "exempt" from that. It is insane to even suggest that! There are many laws under the act and most apply to commercial businesses, not churches, but things like fraud are not just consumer issues. Church members are not "consumers" but they can be victims!

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Daughter of Dorcas
That is not exactly what they said and I don't care to read anything into the response. I just advised what was communicated to us. Speculation is not sufficient to elaborate on, so I think I will refrain.

D of D

Quote
Mville04
If the AG's office is still asking questions it could mean that they are looking into a fraud case. Consumer Protection laws doesn't cover deliberate crimes against the public and fraud falls under that doesn't it? If Mike's intent can be shown to be deliberate then he could still be charged. When people are harmed, the system can usually find a charge to match it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2010 11:17PM by Mville04.

TPCWOC Official Twitter Site: Please take a moment to read this letter of reconciliation from Pastor Jeff and the Elders : September 9,2010


Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
I am writing this letter on behalf of myself and the elders of Turning Point Church. The
purpose of this letter is to make right some wrong actions and attitudes that may have
impacted you. It is with a heavy heart that we speak of these failures, and ask for your
grace and forgiveness as we work to heal and address these issues and continue in the good
work that God has for Marysville.
While God has done many amazing things at Turning Point Church over the years, this
letter will be focusing on areas for which repentance is necessary. We write as ones who
have also been hurt, part of the problem, and now seek to be a part of God’s solution and
redemption.
One of the things we are learning is that over the years there was a spirit of fear and
intimidation that took us to places we did not want to go. Looking back we wish we would
have functioned in a greater awareness of what was taking place.
We have also come to realize that a spirit of control led to an overly authoritative
environment. This has hurt individuals at TPC, our reputation in the community, and our
ability to serve Jesus well within His kingdom. For this our hearts are grieved and we are
examining our doctrine closely to ensure this does not happen in the future.
We are thankful for Jackie Singer’s many years of faithful service at Turning Point Church
and how she touched many lives. Looking back, we regret how we handled things with her
and her family. We have put into motion meetings with Jackie and our leadership to help
bring clarity and understanding to what took place. Our deepest desire is for a restorative
redemptive process so that we may worship together anywhere in Jesus name.
We are working with a leadership consultant who is helping us walk through these issues.
We ask for your grace, as it will take focused time and much prayer. We are humbly looking
to God for complete restoration and the sacred opportunity to rebuild His church according
to His plan. It is our desire that this letter will encourage your own healing if you have been
impacted. We pray that God will use this for his glory in the future and that we would learn
from our mistakes and not return to the bondages of the past.
In Christ’s love,
Senior Pastor Jeff Barnes and the Elders of Turning Point Church



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2010 03:32AM by buddy.

Letter of restoration

Note the number of times the phrases, "we are sorry" and "we were wrong" are used in this letter...

[turningpointchurch.com]

What kind of Intimidation took place?
What kind of control?
Why do you regret the way you handled things with Jackie?
Why are elders stepping down?
What Doctrine were you practicing?

This letter is another way of beating around the bush.
I honestly think they can not and will not ever own up to the truth.
To many un-answered questions
This letter irritates the heck out of me.... "sorry Lord".... can't help it....

WOW! I have to give it to Jeff Barnes. At least he's trying. M&C left cowardly. hmmmmm.

Theses are my issues with Jeff's letter:


1. No complete exoneration of Pastor Jackie!!!!!!!!!!
2. The implication that they were victims instead of perpetrators of the wrongs and hurt that drove away 600 people.
3. He did not say they are moving away from being an elder led church to a democracy. Being an elder lead church led to what happened and the abuses.
4. No plan for correcting any of the problems.
5. The letter should have opened "please accept our apology for x, w,z. You all were right and we should have listened to all of you. Instead of calling you slanderers and gossips.
6. We are sorry we suggested you did not have the right to express your opinion that was offered in love until rebuked by calls from the pulpit to shun us.

D of D

That was a hell of a lot of nothin'
They are currently working with a leadership consultant to help them walk through the issues and this is what they've come up with so far? This letter that deliberately ignores the many questions being asked? The letter doesn't "make right some actions and attitudes" at all! It's just a plee for forgiveness without any explaination of what the hell happened and why!
I'm calling "smoke screen".

Jeff Barnes and Elders,

This is leadership!

Your confession of error and mismanagement is clearly a strong impact to the chain that has held you captive. There will be more action steps that you will need to take but it doesn't need to as a "door-mat" to naysayers. If your letter is sincere than no man can have a stronghold on your work for Christ. What you do in the near future can catapult your church into restoration or become the catalyst of complete failure. Repentance requires a tangible and measurable difference; subject to God and witnessed by man.

Transparency comes to mind. Jesus is the master of relationship and it is relationship with Him and His people that will build strength. To restore relationship with people you will need to be open and honest with folks. No hidden budgets and spending, create a solid financial accountability system, be open with your books, be open about your life and accept people for who they are and let the Holy Spirit restore them as you also love them. You may also need to provide some level of monetary refund and let the church body be included in that decision making process. These are just my suggestions and not necessarily the right thing, God knows.

As it appears, my hat is off to Jeff and the leaders at TPC.



Remember that Mike and Tony became candy coated and expected, even required, people to look up to them.