Who condemns you? The evil one
Who justifies you? The Only Son
Who convicts you? The Holy One

The evil one points out that you are wrong and condemned to death and have no hope. He came to steal kill and destroy.

The Only Son points out that you cannot justify yourself. He came to bare your sin upon himself and pay your debt.

The Holy One points out that you are guilty and fall short. He came to convict, counsel and empower you to live like Christ.

Some will say, "What about Romans 8:1 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus?" Yes for the believer you are not condemned (i.e. sentenced and damned). Why? Because Jesus paid your price. But lets not confuse condemnation with conviction. These are two very different states of mind.

Condemnation as used in Romans 8:1 is the greek word Katakrima meaning damnatory sentence, condemnation. For the believer the sentence has been paid in full by Christ Jesus.

Convict as used in John 16:8 is the greek word Elegcho meaning by conviction to bring to the light, to expose; to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation.

Is David, the Jeffs via Joseph Prince basically saying that the believer is to never has his life brought into the light and exposed by the Holy Spirit? that the Holy Spirit never calls the believer to give an account for his or her actions? Interesting is this not? Does not God's Word teach that believers are to confess their sins to one another? Is not confession the act of bringing into the light and exposing my shortcomings? Did not Jeff and Mike demand that Pastor Jackie come before them and confess or give an account for her actions. So do they mean that it is their role to convict?

Condemnation says that you, your being is not worthy of being saved.
Conviction says that your actions are not in line with God's will for your life.

Which of these is an act of the Holy Spirit?

And which of these is from the Father of Lies?

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TurningPointReject
Condemnation says that you, your being is not worthy of being saved.
Conviction says that your actions are not in line with God's will for your life.

Which of these is an act of the Holy Spirit?

And which of these is from the Father of Lies?

But it is only God Who can bring true conviction and produce true repentance. If I don’t miss my guess I’ll bet that you have someone in your life who is not walking with God. Someone who is either not a Christian or who has wandered away from the faith and currently is not in step with the Lord. Here’s the lesson for you today: it’s the Holy Spirit’s job to convict that person, not you.

Perhaps you have a spouse, a son or daughter, a family member, a friend, or a Christian at church who is currently disobeying the Lord. My encouragement for you is to love them, speak truthfully to them as the Holy Spirit leads you, and then leave the “convicting” part up to the Lord. He has promised to bring about a “spiritual guilt” that will lead to repentance.

John tells us in this verse that the Holy Spirit will convict people of sin (the wrong they are doing) or righteousness (reminding them of the proper thing they SHOULD be doing) and of judgment (the consequences for them continuing down a destructive path). Our job is to continue to pray for them and for the Holy Spirit to keep doing His work.

Remember, your job is to love them. To pray for them. To speak the truth in love. Your job is NOT to convict the person. That’s the Holy Spirit’s job. And He doesn’t need your help.

If you want to elevate Mike above Jackie because of his self proclaimed holiness,feel free,compared to Jackie he is the father of all lies and no one of any importance on Gods good green earth should ever feel they have to answer to Villamor or Barnes ! if that was not your intention I apologize !

[www.letusreason.org]


The wealth of the wicked transferred

Many a godly man has been drawn away from the snare of wanting riches. 1 Tim 6:9-10 "But those who crave to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction." Much bible teaching today is disguised as a carnal craving to be rich, what the Bible plainly calls coveting. An example of this would be Creflo Dollar and Kenneth Copeland leading the people in a chant repeated several times, "MONEY come unto me NOW, MONEY come unto me NOW." etc. -As he acted out pulling it in to his person.- (Dec.4, 1999 Voice of Victory telecast) There is no excuse for this kind of teaching leading people into collected congregational coveting. What Bible message is this? ”They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children”(2 Peter 2:14)

The world sees many of these men use the Word of God on God's people in order to stuff money into their own pockets. The bible sees it as their fattening themselves for the day of slaughter in the last days (James 5). Not only do they distort and preach another gospel, many are doing it for their own aggrandizement as it is evident from their self indulgent, lavish lifestyles. The best hotel rooms, big houses, nice cars and expensive suits to prove God is blessing them and their ministry. The real problem is that they have convinced their followers that this is the way it’s suppose to be!

Creflo Dollar is a perfect example of this justification for himself and others." God is coming back for a church without spot or blemish so he is not coming back to a church in debt…this revival must take place before Jesus can come back he cannot come back for a broke church, he cannot come back for a sick church, he cannot come back for a church that is in debt that would be against his word, I'm coming back for a glorious church, without spot or wrinkle so that means there's going to be some quick transference going on." (Changing your World, Mar.27, 2000) Now they teach a money revival. That we must gain all these things before Jesus comes back is hardly the Bibles perspective.

While many of these men may have begun as honest servants of the Lord, it is now difficult to see them as anything less than con men out for their own piece of heaven on earth.

[www.oaim.org]


Read this once and you will know that you have been "Owned" by a greed dog ! Or there is no turning back for you ! Good Luck !

LAST LETTER TO RICK ROSS FORUM

This will probably be my last post on this sight. Today I read most of the 55 posts I have written. I was expecting to be embarrassed. I probably should be but I am not.

These two years have been amazing to me. Some brief reflections on this experience.

I remember first reading the Radiant Life forum. I was stunned. These people were articulating exactly the feelings I had, both good and bad. I thought maybe I am not crazy after all.

I remember my hands trembling as I typed my first post. Wondering if I had committed a horrible sin.

I remember the adrenaline rush when the hits jumped from 10,000 in 4 months to 10,000 in one month.

I remember the excitement when someone new would post, and the joy in meeting them. Sometimes it was heartbreaking.

I have wrestled with the ethics of writing on this forum. I still don't think it is the ideal. It seems to me at this point that there is no alternative to warn people when they are in an authoritarian church.

I have thought that if this ever happened to my church I wouldn't try to stop people from looking but rather invite them to bring to me any concerns. I would post that there will be a meeting this Sunday for anyone who has any questions. If I couldn't answer one in detail for ethical reasons I would openly explain why. Honesty and transparency brings healing. Concealing matters only creates more problems.

I remember one of the most healing nights at my house was we got into a discussion of what was the thing you did that at the time seemed so righteous and holy that now you are embarrassed by? We all laughed more and more as we shared our stories and I think that told me we are all slowly healing.

I also remember going to a football game and it turned some people from TP were there. I had heard they were not supposed to talk to people like me, but they were gracious, they even joked during the game.

One person later said to my son that they felt that if I was going to love them they were going to love me.

I think that this whole process shared with all of you has also made me search my heart. I think I am experiencing a break through in my soul that may not have happened apart from coming face to face with the tendency I have had to seek the affirmation of men rather then God.

The saddest thing has been seeing people drift from the faith. It has been really hard.

I have also learned that I just have to accept what can't be changed, and that there is some things that I will never know the answer to.

I just wanted to thank you all for sharing your lives with me.

The true hypocrite is the one who ceases to perceive his deception, the one who lies with sincerity. ~André Gide

[www.youtube.com]

This is not just about an opposing theology or conflicting viewpoint on Jesus,this is a war for the souls of men,come out from among them,this is about your life !

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M&M
LAST LETTER TO RICK ROSS FORUM

This will probably be my last post on this sight. Today I read most of the 55 posts I have written. I was expecting to be embarrassed. I probably should be but I am not.

These two years have been amazing to me. Some brief reflections on this experience.

I remember first reading the Radiant Life forum. I was stunned. These people were articulating exactly the feelings I had, both good and bad. I thought maybe I am not crazy after all.

I remember my hands trembling as I typed my first post. Wondering if I had committed a horrible sin.

I remember the adrenaline rush when the hits jumped from 10,000 in 4 months to 10,000 in one month.

I remember the excitement when someone new would post, and the joy in meeting them. Sometimes it was heartbreaking.

I have wrestled with the ethics of writing on this forum. I still don't think it is the ideal. It seems to me at this point that there is no alternative to warn people when they are in an authoritarian church.

I have thought that if this ever happened to my church I wouldn't try to stop people from looking but rather invite them to bring to me any concerns. I would post that there will be a meeting this Sunday for anyone who has any questions. If I couldn't answer one in detail for ethical reasons I would openly explain why. Honesty and transparency brings healing. Concealing matters only creates more problems.

I remember one of the most healing nights at my house was we got into a discussion of what was the thing you did that at the time seemed so righteous and holy that now you are embarrassed by? We all laughed more and more as we shared our stories and I think that told me we are all slowly healing.

I also remember going to a football game and it turned some people from TP were there. I had heard they were not supposed to talk to people like me, but they were gracious, they even joked during the game.

One person later said to my son that they felt that if I was going to love them they were going to love me.

I think that this whole process shared with all of you has also made me search my heart. I think I am experiencing a break through in my soul that may not have happened apart from coming face to face with the tendency I have had to seek the affirmation of men rather then God.

The saddest thing has been seeing people drift from the faith. It has been really hard.

I have also learned that I just have to accept what can't be changed, and that there is some things that I will never know the answer to.

I just wanted to thank you all for sharing your lives with me.

M&M, Thanks for being there for us when we found out false Apostle Mike was really delusional. You where honest with us and I believe you are a wonderful man of God.
You have been a wonderful teacher to my son and we are grateful for your care for him when we left TPCWOC. You have raised three wonderful boys and have a super wonderful wife behind you. How wonderful can you get! Any way I just want to say " Thanks". Thanks for the courage to confront Mike on the false word of faith movement teaching that he has embraced. And for getting upset with him when Mike decided to fleece the flock and move into his big house in the exclusive neighborhood. Thanks for the courage to be one of the first to post your story on the forum. It has been a long painful journey. The wounds have healed and now we are on the road to recovery with our christian faith. It has been a rough road along the way trusting church and man again. But God never lets us down and we have taken steps to attend a church and use our gifts again for his glory. I feel like I have been out in the forest lost trying to find my way home for the last 18 months. We have come home.

"I think that this whole process shared with all of you has also made me search my heart. I think I am experiencing a break through in my soul that may not have happened apart from coming face to face with the tendency I have had to seek the affirmation of men rather then God. " quote M&M





“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me.
You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.
“You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.
“You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
“I do not receive glory from men; but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves.
“I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
“How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?