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I am Dan Masten and I borrowed this account from my wife to post my joy at seeing the Turning Point float tonight. I am not currently attending the church, but saw several people on the float giving glory to God with all of their heart. The scripture He inhabits the praises of his people echoed through my being and I was overjoyed at the wonderful sight of a few individuals standing before all people in our city to proclaim God's glory. Whew, it was absolutely incredible.
Someone told me that people might be posting about the float and I just wanted to make sure my approval was one of the first things written.

Dear TPR and Dan,

There are still a lot of good and Godly people who attend TPC. Every poster on this site has friends and family who are attending. By dwelling only on our anger at Pastor Mike and Leadership we would not being walking with the Lord or walking out his will for our lives. So if Dan wants to voice his opinion on the float because criticism of those who are not part of the problem is wrong, then welcome Dan and thank you for sticking up for those who are not part of the problem at TPC.

Terry L. Berger aka Daughter of Dorcas

Which is worthy of judging: those on a float in a parade at a community festival? or the teachings and doctrines espoused by leaders of a church group? We run the risk of disobedience when try to judge a person's heart (only God is capable of judging someones heart). But Luke, the eyewitness to Christ admonishes Christ followers to be of "more noble character" by examining the teachings of those who profess to speak for Christ and determining if they are Truth (Acts 17:11).

This is why I invite Dan, and anyone else for that matter, to focus their comments in two areas- their own personal experience (their story) and how their story was impacted by the TEACHINGS of those at TPc. I will not try to make a judgment about those who served on the float. Nor will I attempt to judge whether posters here are "angry".

As I said Dan has his perspective and Tell the Truth has their perspective. Each is valid. But how does either of these perspectives reflect the heart of the Bereans? The Bereans "examined the scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true". This really is the crux of the matter: In examining the scriptures how have you found what Mike says to be at odds with the Truth?

Judging teachings which can be researched and the information sifted until true understanding and a personal decision is made as to whether doctrines, teachings, or interpretation of scripture is right or wrong is not judgment it is discernment. It is what God calls us to do. I have met Buddy, he is a nice person. While I may not agree with his views on everything, I would defend his right to voice his views.

But criicizing someone for failing to criticize people on a float in a parade is worthy of defense as well.

When the only communications you see which has value are those that criticize and take an angry tone are you listening to the Lord or are you listening to something else?

So lets go to the book and see what God says:

Cease from anger, and forsake wrath; Do not fret -- it only causes harm. (Psalm 37:8)

The discretion of a man makes him slow to anger, And his glory is to overlook a transgression. (Proverbs 19:11)

Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears. (Hebrews 12:14-17)

When God is angry, he is slow to respond in anger. And His anger is balanced with his love. Before we are too quick to justify our anger, let's look at examples of righteous and unrighteous anger exhibited by man.

Exodus 34:6
"Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth;"

Numbers 14:18
'The Lord is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.'"

Pastor Jeff Barnes once mentioned during his opening of a service right after TPC moved to the Jr High that those who had left TPC for whatever reason had not found greener pastures or a better life and he was specific when he mentioned "former elder." We now know he was referring to you. I would challenge you not to let him be right or even remotely accurate. We were all angry at some point in time with Pastor Mike and the Elders, but at some point you have to say anger whether it is righteous or not is not healthy and choose to loose your anger and be the Christian the Lord's plan calls you to be.

D of D

I respect all opinions including Dan's.

I don't know who this Dan Masten is, but he personal messaged me and asked me my intentions for this forum. I responded it was none of his business. Who is he to come and judge? This forum has become a bit weird. I think I'm done here.

Dear D of D hidden and Tell the Truth,

I must agree with TPR, The float was "lame" from what i heard and looked weird, and yes was concerty, but I don't see how if you liked the float or not is relevant to your issues with TPC.
I do agree with TRP, although you use discernment and you know via "discernment" that they are doing it in the wrong spirit or worshiping mike and their appearance, you still can not say "THEY ARE" this implies they have told you themselves and is judgment and implies you have knowledge you don't. Although the statement "I FEEL" or "IT LOOKS" like they are in it for self promotion, is more accurate and non-judgmental and makes it far easier to approach and it comes off far easier for people to hear, and respond too. See to judge accurately we must have all the knowledge on the situation as possible.

This issue has led me to think about something about my life that i have realized that i used to deal with at TPC, I used to judge everybody and especially how they worshiped. I used to say "well they aren't worshiping" because ___________, they aren't Christians because _______________ ,and despite if i am right or not i am judging there hearts and therefor taking the place of GOD. If we judge how they worship on the float we are no better than them, when they say we are not worshiping because we don't shout, dance, jump up and down, and have lots of energy, worship is a mult-action lifestyle, not a one time action.

The fact is they might have been worshiping, who am i to say if they were or weren't?
I don't judge Spencer for being on the float and doing what he has been taught (I believe to be brainwashed) into believing. I too was once brainwashed, I hold nothing against any of the team for being on the float, and submitting to leadership. They think they are doing God's will.

Forgiveness 101

It appears as though there are a number of new posters here. I would like to welcome you, though our circumstances for such a meeting are sad indeed. I'm so very sorry that you've found yourself here.

It's been a while since I've posted, so I'll share a little bit of my story.

My family and I attended TP for many years. Over the last few years we started to notice things that we found distasteful (for the lack of a better word). We also had some issues here and there with the way that we were treated (and the way our kids were treated), but always took the brunt of it upon ourselves. We saw things that we wondered "do the elders see that?" Always, we justified it, we assumed that things were being handled privately, we believed that the mistreatment were isolated incidents, and we kept saying that if things were really the way we saw them, the elders would do something about it. We also knew that we would never find a church that was perfect, so we agreed to disagree.

Then, Pastor Jackie resigned. We realized that an elder had seen *something*. My husband and I spent some time and really dug into the word, and we prayed, and we fasted. It was a tearful time (it often still is). As we were trying to discern what the Lord would have us do, our hearts were breaking. At the end of about a week, we were pretty sure of our decision, but we knew that there was one more step we needed to take. We met with Pastor Jackie, and her husband Sid. They listened to us talk, and they answered our questions. It became clear that, yes, the elders DO see what's going on, but only one was willing to do anything about it.

We have not returned to TP.

The final straw for us, was the new direction that Pastor Mike is leading the church, the apostolic ministry as it's taught at TP. We simply could not support that move, and risk our salvation, or that of our children. It was about that time that I found this message board, and began to read the stories and questions that others had. I was in a state of shock. I could not believe that the mistreatment that we had suffered was so wide spread. I was amazed when I realized that others had the same questions about the finances that we had, and couldn't get any answers either. It wasn't until I read some of the info here, that I really dug into and began to understand what was wrong with the prosperity doctrine (I knew *something* wasn't right, but I couldn't put my finger on it). My heart has been broken again and again.....

So, here we are. It's been about four months. We've found a new home church, it wasn't easy. I miss TP. Leaving was difficult, probably one of the most difficult things I've done. I have watched as friends have chosen to stay, and support the leaders at TP, and I've shared in the sorrow as other friends have chosen to leave. I'm disappointed. I still *struggle* with my emotions. I am so sad about what's been lost. I am angry and frustrated. I am appauled at some of the things that I continue to hear and see from TP. I fear for the salvation of those I love. And honestly, I fear the wrath of God for the leaders that have allowed, and continue to encourage this mess. I have good days, and I have bad days, some days just are.

I pray for TP, for Mike and Cyndi, for the elders, deacons and other leaders. I pray for the men and women that choose to stay, and those who choose to leave. I pray for repentance, and for healing. I trust that God will bring both, in His time.

I am going to rethink posting here. I posted about a parade float not because it is a parade float, but because it is supposed to be a representation of a church that preaches Christ. This whole thread is about TPC and we've all discussed things that aren't about the abuses, but about newspaper articles, sermons, things that are heard and seen. I posted my opinion of how TPC is showing itself to this city, which I believe was poorly done. Even discussing it with current TPC'ers, it was agreed that there was more of a push on how things looked and not on the worship. But I post here and though it wasn't directed at me, I felt like I was chastised for posting on a trivial matter.

How is it trivial if a young man, woman, or family sees this flashy, rock concert-like float and decides to attend the church only to be ignored, or judged, or hurt, or told they are divisive, like many of us were?

I didn't realize there were a set of agreed upon discussion topics, I thought this was a place for ex-TPC'ers to come and commiserate and share hurts and disappointments, to hopefully protect others from being hurt. Someone very dear to me spent hours working on that float and was, in the end, embarrassed by the display as it drove down the street. Though trivial to some, the potential damage done to potential TPC attenders is very important.

Why can't everyone that is posting just post their feelings without others coming down on them. I read more about people going at each other than I read on testimonies.

Just my thoughts.
Outreach

AMEN! Outreach!