Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: LearningPoint ()
Date: October 28, 2010 11:12AM

This on JUDGING from apologeticsindex.org:

According to the Bible, Christians are to apply scriptural principles of discernment regarding beliefs, teachings and actions.

A brief but helpful introduction is the article, ''Two Kinds of Judging," which concludes:

God judges in the temporal arena, and the eternal. In this life God will judge a person's actions, but always (except when the person has irrevocably rejected Him) holds out the chance for turning back and repenting. Only on the Last Day, at the great white throne judgment will God pronounce eternal judgment on a person, forever determining his or her destinies. From this judgment, there is no appeal or second chance.

The Christian, on the other hand, is never given the right or the responsibility of eternally judging anyone (unless they have clearly rejected Christ permanently). Christians cannot correctly weigh action, motives, opportunities, nor know all things about any individual: God alone is capable to do so.

However, Christians are to make decisions (appraisals, discernments, and even take corrective actions). But even judging in this aspect is intended to be remedial, and leaves the door open to the person for repentance and reconciliation. Any judging on the part of a Christian which does not, is a false aspect of Christian judgment. We are called upon to ''judge righteous judgment'' (John 7:24) and failure to do so is to be negligent in a crucial aspect of our Christian calling.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Date: October 30, 2010 12:15AM

I liken all of us who have left Turning Point to fruit inspectors. The Bible tells us we will know them by their fruit. We should all be looking at the fruit we have seen and are seeing from Turning Point and discern whether it is good or bad. The fruit I have been seeing is pretty bad. However, if Jeff and the powers that be feel so strongly that they should not have to repay Stewardship Donations, because our money was not used for the purpose intended, then they should be more than willing to get all of us, who have asked for the return of our money, off their back by letting Pastor Jackie choose an independent outside accounting firm to audit the Stewardship Fund and give all of us a full accounting of where it went and how it was spent. If the money was not spent on purchasing real estate what what was it spent on and how did they justify using Stewardship money for the use. The staff and elders at Turning Point had a fiduciary duty to the folks that donated their money to the Stewardship Campaign to spend it fro the purpose it was given. Not my opinion, but a legal principal I found in one of the books that I ordered about Church Finances and the Law which was written by an attorney. You cannot get much more transparent and honest than than a full audit and accounting of the Stewardship money.

Oh yeah, and a full page ad in the Everett Herald proclaiming our dear sweet sister's innocence of any and all wrong doing would not hurt either. Jeff had a chance to exonerate her from the pulpit and satisfy all of the folks who love and believe in our sister's innocence, it is called FAITH, and he chose to do it during worship so no one who listened to his sermon would know it had been done. That is not an apology. That isn't even an attempt at an apology.

Jeff, GIVE US A FULL AUDIT AND ACCOUNTING BY A INDEPENDENT ACCOUNTING FIRM CHOSEN BY PASTOR JACKIE!!!!!

D of D

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Saddened ()
Date: October 31, 2010 10:22AM

Heard from D of D this evening. Her husband had enough information that he decided to ask for a full accounting of the Stewardship Campaign Funds. When it was confirmed that earmarked funds must be used as the donor intended and not however the staff and elders of a church want to spend the money he had enough of Jeff's lies and half truths. If TPC collected $900k and the bank impounded $200K and we know that all the properties TPC purchased were bought with mortgages, where did $700K of everyone's money go? She was talking about something she read in an IRS informational pamphlet which talked about earmarked donations. Perhaps the fleeced flock should start sending emails to the IRS so that they can audit Mike and TPC. Something about the Stewardship money stinks. Ron Olin will be in this up to his neck, he headed the campaign and spoke to people about the reason for fundraising and how the money would be spent.

Saddened

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Date: November 04, 2010 11:30AM

Drum roll please and the answer is:

If a donor has taken the time to check a box for a specific use, or to note a specific use or restriction on the memo line of a check, one ought to assume that the donor meant to do so and consider the instruction as a restriction on the gift.

If the donor's money is not used for the purpose for which it was given then the donor can ask for the return of their restricted donation and the charity needs to issue a 1099 for the amount of the refunded restricted donation


When we filled out our Stewardship Campaign form we checked the box for the amount we intended to give. Each and every check had Stewardship Campaign written in the memo portion of the check so it could go to the right fund and so our contribution based on our initial pledge could be tracked -- and it was.

So since Jeff and Debbie have read Lonnie's last email we have copies of the read receipts for our files.... and they think ignoring the problem will make it go away. Guess again. We did not give the money for batteries, Mike Villamor's golden parachute, or any of the other wasteful uses the money was spent for.

D of D

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Allexis ()
Date: November 04, 2010 09:26PM

I have never been a member of this church and just came upon this site in my research. It is Basic Church Finances 101 that the church can not use donations that are designated for a particular fund at their own discretion. At my church, we had been donating funds weekly to help the church build a school. When we found out that the building of the school was not going to be possible, all members that donated toward this fund received a letter in which they were offered to receive 100% of their monies donated toward the school fund back or donate the money toward other church campaigns. Either way, the church wanted it in writing from each member what they chose to do to keep everything legit. I opted to get my money back, and without question, once I requested this in writing, my church sent me a check for 100% of my funds donated toward the school. Also, my church publishes their financial records annually which show where every penny was spent. The report is extensive and it demonstrates how much the church collected (in every fund, including general) and exactly what was spent and where. I believe at any time you can request a spending report from the church. If the church is honest, it will have no problem in providing you with such documentation. Also, if you have made your request in writing the church admin can not receive your letter and ignore it, again, this is not legal. They must take action in rectifying the siutation. You may need to seek additional legal advice if you have donated monies to a specific campaign and the fund were not use accordingly, as this is unlawful. You may also need to contact the Attorney General in your state if you are not able to resolve the situation. The church should not only offer to reimburse you the money you donated, but every other member who donated. Reading this thread makes me so thankful for the church I belong to, it's credibility, integrity, and primary purpose to serve our awesome God.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Date: November 05, 2010 01:39AM

Quote
Allexis
I have never been a member of this church and just came upon this site in my research. It is Basic Church Finances 101 that the church can not use donations that are designated for a particular fund at their own discretion. At my church, we had been donating funds weekly to help the church build a school. When we found out that the building of the school was not going to be possible, all members that donated toward this fund received a letter in which they were offered to receive 100% of their monies donated toward the school fund back or donate the money toward other church campaigns. Either way, the church wanted it in writing from each member what they chose to do to keep everything legit. I opted to get my money back, and without question, once I requested this in writing, my church sent me a check for 100% of my funds donated toward the school. Also, my church publishes their financial records annually which show where every penny was spent. The report is extensive and it demonstrates how much the church collected (in every fund, including general) and exactly what was spent and where. I believe at any time you can request a spending report from the church. If the church is honest, it will have no problem in providing you with such documentation. Also, if you have made your request in writing the church admin can not receive your letter and ignore it, again, this is not legal. They must take action in rectifying the siutation. You may need to seek additional legal advice if you have donated monies to a specific campaign and the fund were not use accordingly, as this is unlawful. You may also need to contact the Attorney General in your state if you are not able to resolve the situation. The church should not only offer to reimburse you the money you donated, but every other member who donated. Reading this thread makes me so thankful for the church I belong to, it's credibility, integrity, and primary purpose to serve our awesome God.

allexis sounds like your church operates on Godly principles, this one doesnt, they try to make it sound Godly, but thier actions prove otherwise. they seem to operate on business principles, and success using the cleverness of man. instead of being absolutly honest about their mistakes, the try to minimize them, cover them up, all in the name of protecting the new members who know nothing. I feel sad for them, they have a form of godliness but deny its power.they deny its power by not living and practicing the principles that power desires.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Allexis ()
Date: November 05, 2010 08:27AM

This sounds so terrible. I hope that you are able to get the situation resolved ASAP and the church admin would act in a manner that would reflect Jesus' and do what is right. I just find it absolutely disturbing that it appears that people have been abused financially in an institution that is supposed to be a church. I hope you all do know that there are good churches out there, Bible based churches that teach the true word. Please note that if at any time a church fails to provide a record of their finances, it is a big RED FLAG, and I would not choose to belong to that church. You do have the law on your side and I hope that you are all able to get your funds back soon. Also, please know, again, it is illegal for the church body not to respond to your letters. I am sure that you have kept copies of your letters sent and it would be highly advisable for you to contact the Attorney General if you do not get a response. Also, the response should not just be a letter along the lines of "yes, we have received your letter, we are trying to resolve the issue." It needs to state a deadline and the resolution that is being considered. The church is responsible and accountable. The money donated is not for the church to use at their liking. I hope not too many people have turned their back on the most High One based on this horrific experience. The Bible warns us that these types of situations will happen, just sorry it had to be to you all. I would praise God that I am not the one responsible for executing such an act, I would never want to risk my own salvation over such a practice that is so wrong.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Allexis ()
Date: November 05, 2010 01:24PM

One more thing....in reading further, it appears that there may actually be criminal action that needs to be taken as well as civil. At that point regardless if church members want their money back or not, the person(s) involved may very likely be subject to criminal charges and your local law enforcement will get involved and your district attorney's office will conduct a full blown investigation. Once this happens, the courts will intervene and there is a good chance jail time may be involved for those parties found guilty. I don't mean to take over this post, as I was never a member of this church, but as an outsider looking in, something has gone (and it appears it still is going) far astray here. Also, federal jurisdictions may get involved and that is a whole other separate set of violations that will be investigated. I am not sure how long ago this all happened, but I am quite taken back that nothing has happened yet as far as prosecuting the guilty parties and refunding the victims of this criminal activity.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: buddy ()
Date: November 07, 2010 12:23PM

www.PimpPreacher.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2010 12:33PM by buddy.

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Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by: Hector_Ragnar ()
Date: November 07, 2010 03:57PM

I am wondering..........If I attended SOMA, with the promise from Tony Cunningham, that I would revive accreditation for what I received as an education, then where is the accreditation today? Now that the dean of students had divorced her husband, and the church has dropped in membership from over 3000 to ninety six or twelve?

These people are are evil DeceptiCon's eroding our principals and theology found in the word of God! ..........the Bible!!!!!!!!!!

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