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Brokenhearted
Okay....I remember having a couple of dreams, and sharing them, and being blown off. Then, someone else had a similar dream, it was interpreted as "those who have left TP aren't getting fed, no matter where they are". That didn't sit well with me, but I never spoke up, and honestly didn't give it much thought.....Now, I recognize how prideful and self serving the *interpretation* was.

I've recently been going through some old journals, trying to remember dreams I've had. I always took them to leadership for interpretation, I never discerned anything for myself. It's pathetic.

The interpretation that you site, Brokenhearted, is a huge red flag when identifying destructive churches or cults. The idea that TPc is the EXCLUSIVE church for truth-that truth cannot be found anywhere else is a strong indicator of a controlling mindset designed to manipulate and psychologically "lock" people into the group and keep them from leaving. This is classic cult behavior.

During a sermon at Jakes House mike said "I run into people all the time who say ''Pastor Mike, Pator Mike I had a vision I had a vision.' and the first thing I know is if the vision is weighty." "... If it isn't weighty then that's not a vision. It was probably just a dream. Vision? That's not a vision. That's some meal you ate that went wrong in your stomach or somethin."

Mike says this and yet Cyndi has "visions" all the time that are trivial or self serving. THOSE are REAL visions I guess. They have a vision and translate it into a call to 'possess the land' ... and new house ... and new car ... and home theater ... and Harley. They recieve calls from God for tripple tithing or a vision that Jesus is standing over I-5 calling everyone from the 4 winds to come to Marysville! I am so sorry that these visions and calls are so "weighty" for them. It must be hard on the both of them. Such a burdon they must bear.

Oh wow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2009 05:05PM by Mville04.

Does anyone know about Pastor Jackie's healing? She states on a church video that she had been diagnosed with cancer. She then says that she was healed by the church. In the same video Kim Barnes said Jackie came in a week later with proof from the doctor her cancer was gone. Now, we all are aware of how there will be miricles and healings shown to us by false apostles so I'm not really attempting to use this in any way other than to feed my curiosity. But is there any real varification this actually happened? Now that jackie has left does she still stand by her statement? Puting this on a public youtube video is a bold move and a powerful statement by the church. My question is whether it's true or was it just misdiagnosed, a miracle or just a flat out lie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2009 08:32PM by Mville04.

Dreams,Visions. I can remember Kim Barnes having a vision of a person painting a picture during the Friday night fan your flame service. The nice lady was painting her picture during the whole service, I thought it was kind of a wierd vision at the time, after the three hour I can't wait to get out of the service, I went to the front to look at the painting, And the picture that the lady painted had the most gloomiest,dark colors in it. I was very upset about the picture looking so gloomy and dark evil looking! I think she painted others to.Can anybody help me out with my memory of the service! Maybe she ran out of colors after three hours! I don't know. I am color blind anyhow!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2009 10:03PM by buddy.

Wow, what an explosion of input. Due a family situation I was busy (mentally else where) and didn't read this forum for 4 days. I think the last page I read was 125 or 126, now page 132. Wow!

I'll just jump in with the Visions/dreams; I too have had several dreams about TP and because I did share a few I was reprimanded. Not wanting to feel the hurt I shut up. One of the dreams I did have I didn't think about until a couple of days after I was asked if God had spoken anything to me. The person said, she felt God said, I had a word for her. After praying about this matter, this dream came back to my memory.
I was on this hill that was facing and looking down to a stage, (like the Shell theather in Waikiki). People sitting on the ground all around me saying, "Just wait, this guy is so wonderful, so moving,..." I was skeptical, I was thinking yah, we'll see about that. The worship music was playing, and was building the excitement for the moment this GUY was to appear. Then the music stopped, out walked this man, he raised his arms up and said, a few words, the people were praising him. He turned and left the stage, a friend next to me asked, "Wasn't he great?" My reply was something to, What? That was it? This is what you were saying was all that? He is nothing, he is a man, just a man. My friend and the people all around me were coming after me, to tear me apart, I ran. I realized after sometime that man was Mike. I shared this with the woman who asked me for a word from God. She never got back to me about that dream. But when I had another dream that a person I trusted was coming to harm me, she stabbed me in the back of my hand. (The pain was so real in my dream it woke me up, I looked at my left hand to see if the knife was still in my hand.) Couple months later I was set up for an attack, by my discipler, she ripped into me and said things to me that almost destroyed me. This prior person called me within an hour of that attack, asked if I was all right. God is good and faithful. Than this dream came so clearly to me. I saw I was warned.
At that moment my husband said, that is it we are out of there. It has been a long, painful, lonely journey from that day. This forum has been a help in seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Hearing that I wasn't alone, I am not crazy, this really did happen. I knew I couldn't say anything about the abuse, I was blackballed by my discipler and maybe others, no one was talking to me, so I couldn't share, no one would have listened.
It came so clear how brainwashed everyone was, all the people involved in TP, especially those in SOMA were/are Stepford Christians. I coined this from the movie, "The Stepford Wives" from the late 70's. So, cheery, willing to do everything to please, like robots, no mind of their own, just go though the motions what was expected of them to be so complaint. There is a book outthere about a pill called SOMA, where the people in control of the government give this Soma pill to the people who do not think or go along with what they (in control) believe or want. Thought provoking words.

This has felt good to share. The discipler has since asked me to forgive her. Know I had forgiven her a year before she approached me. All in God's timing, I have learned, I can't "should've on myself", it is another step hold Satan will use to hold onto me. Guilt, fear, unworthlessness is not of God, so that leaves only one source for it to come from. Know it hasn't been an overnight or a McDonald's (in 30 seconds or less) process, it has taken over 3 years, and I am still inprocess.

Wow, Jael! Thank you so much for being willing to tell this aspect of your story on here. Powerful...and helpful to see that you've been able to move authentically through the confusion and hurt and on toward deepening trust in Christ and a true forgiveness of people.

Again, thanks so much!

Pastor Mike's sermon on Sunday --
Great Faith Part 9: Faith To Be Free From Religions Impossibilities

[turningpointchurch.com]

"Religion looks for what's wrong. Faith is trying to accomplish God's purposes."

Hmm. . . I would have to disagree with that quote ENTIRELY.

TRYING to accomplish God's purposes (per Mike's definition of faith) is not trusting. It is, in fact, SELF-righteousness, which is religion, not faith.

Mike's definition of religion doesn't really hold up, either. For example, the New Age religion is always looking for what is right and good in what it believes are the many paths to God. It embraces everything but the Cross.

The real definition of religion has to do with a prescribed set of rites, practices, teachings, and rituals that are not Christ-centered and do not fully trust in Christ for salvation.

So everyone who is looking for a church, post-Turning Point, try to get your Turning Point-tainted mindset around this. (I'm not casting stones at any of you; I am/was in the same boat.) It's something that hit me between the eyes in my own search. Even a ritualistic church that fully trusts in God for salvation is not a dead church; it is a church that is faithful to the gospel. A hip and happenin' seemingly alive church that adds, subtracts, or does anything else to the gospel so as to dilute or disfigure it is a RELIGION.

BUT HERE'S WHAT I SEE IN MIKE'S DEFINITION(S). MIKE IS SUBSCRIBING TO C. PETER WAGNER'S DEFINITION OF THE "RELIGIOUS SPIRIT," WHICH DECRIES ANYONE WHO NAY-SAYS HIS FALSE TEACHINGS AND AGENDA. MIKE IS CLEARLY GROOMING HIS CONGREGATION NOT TO NAY-SAY HIM AS HE STEPS INTO HIS SELF-APPOINTED ROLE AS THE APOSTLE OVER MARYSVILLE. HE IS ALSO DEFINING AS "RELIGIOUS" ANYONE WHO QUESTIONS HIM OR CALLS HIM ON HIS FALSE TEACHINGS OR INAPPROPRIATE METHODS OF LEADERSHIP.

The golf ball is heading down the fairway. Let's see where it lands.

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WonderingNow
Pastor Mike's sermon on Sunday --
Great Faith Part 9: Faith To Be Free From Religions Impossibilities

[turningpointchurch.com]

"Religion looks for what's wrong. Faith is trying to accomplish God's purposes."

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2009 01:26PM by LearningPoint.

M&M, thanks for illuminating your concerns regarding leadership's responsibility to the truth with this quote.

I also appreciate and value your own commitment to praying and continuing to declare the truth.

Since you are a man who stands in the righteousness of Christ alone, I'm convinced that the effectual and fervent prayers you are raising will avail much.

Thanks for leading by example and encouragement.

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M&M
I want to share something that cut me in the heart today. I picked up a book called CROSSING HITLER, it is about the man (Hans Litten) who had a chance to cross examine Hitler in a trial shortly before Hitler came to power.

Before going further. I am NOT comparing Mike to Hitler. That is not my intent. To believe so would be to miss the point entirely.

But this quote from the opening passage of the book shook me. It shakes me because I still am searching and asking God what responsibility do I have in regards to this situation? And even more importantly, what responsibility do those have who are in the inner circle?

"The more we know, the more we think we have learned, the more hopeless it becomes to live and not to be responsible for everything. For everything , and especially for what goes on in the small circle around oneself. That is why it is so difficult to write about Hans Litten....I must tell the Hans Litten story very briefly...But I will tell it, because 'he is part of myself.'" Max Furst, 1973.

I ask you who are leaders at TP. Please be true to your conscience. Do not allow temporary position, power, or honor keep you from facing what you know is true. You can still be a person of honor. You may even save the church and many young believers from great heartbreak and maybe spiritual shipwreck.

At this point I am committed to praying and speaking the truth. I think that is all God has called me to.

He says in his sermon that "religion" makes impossible demands upon his flock and ridicules the religious spirit. Yet it is his church that trains his followers to "Achieve the next level in their faith" by attending seminars and SOMA classes.
He preaches out one side of his mouth that grace comes when the heart leads them on to doing good deads, not purchased by the deeds that are done -- yet it is his church that is task based. They are taught that the more they give, the holier they are!
He says that most followers of Christ read in scripture "Do this; don't do that." and that this traps them. Yet Mike expects his followers to accept the way he interprets the bible and be trapped into his NewAge Mindless crap-trap!

But what do you expect from Mike, The Oracle of God! And there is no mistake in taking that out of context. He meant it just as he said it. He is the F***n Oracle of God! I swear this guy is a sociopath.