I have forgiven Jim Jones, Joseph Smith, Osama Bin Laden, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson and many other nut cases! So I personally don't have a problem with forgiveness towards false apostle Mike Villarmor! I have always thought of him as a nice guy! And I personally do not have an anger or venting problem, I hope Jesus Christ never got angry with anybody! I love Mike so much that I am willing to call him a idiot for every false doctrine he has taught! If you really love someone you would want to share the truth with them. And the Lord will use us to defend the gospel. Many people do need healing and forgiveness is a huge part of it and very important! But let us not turn into cowards without courage and boldness to confront false doctrines taught by false apostles and teachers who have came into the body of Christ from the inside! The battle is the Lords and we are Christian soldiers in his army and we are in a fight for truth. So lets all forgive and move on so we can fight the good fight of the faith! Defend the truth from doctrines of demons. Its not time to retreat and or hide in our fox holes, but its time get off our spiritual butts and engage in battle for truth with the Lords help and power from the Holy Spirit to give us courage and boldness as we reach out to the brothers and sisters that we love so much who are still under the covering of the false apostle Mike Villamor! Forgiveness is what we all need, the Lord will provide! That is my personal view point, in the end God will judge, and it does not matter your view point or mine. But Gods view point is what matters.

DOD, i have held my tongue (or should I say fingers) after your last few posts on forgiveness. Your posts have become more and more condescending and preachy. I cannot hear your message because your posts are so based in the cerebral that the humanness we all struggle with is missing. The last time you posted in response to mine, I was like, wow, is that person on some hill far away dressed in a white flowy robe prostelitizing? I get that you are finding healing, and that's great. but you can't take your experience and expect everyone else to ascribe to your notion and experience of forgiveness. There are situations in life where forgiveness is a process and takes time. It is very difficult.

Back to TP. I watched the TP float go by and couldn't believe the "rock star" image they have. Wow, only beautiful people were on the float. Spencer led the pack with Stephanie (sporting a new hair do) and what blew my mind was a girl dancing on the back of the float and she was tied to the float! It was surreal! What an amazing image of the binding that TP leadership does to people. I couldn't believe the rush of feelings I had watching it float by with a turning point original song blasting the place. They were wearing silver and black clothing that flashed along with the smoke machine. Wow, the world vision of TPC is alive and well. Their sights are on becoming one with the world...resplendit in silver.

The TPC float was truly disturbing. Everyone dressed in silver ... stars, lights, smoke machine. The music was so loud, you couldn't even tell it was supposed to be a church. Looked more like a rock concert rolling down the street. If I were still at TPC, I would be embarrassed. Shameful. Earlier in the parade, a float for a church went by and the people all had simple hand puppets on, making the kids in the audience smile and laugh. Showing Christ's love. Tell me how a gaudy rock concert driving by shows God's love? Where is Christ in that? Did Christ go around with lights and smoke machines and sparkly silver outfits? NO! He knew the simple way to show God's love.. through action and LOVE.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2009 02:17PM by belongs2Him.

I am Dan Masten and I borrowed this account from my wife to post my joy at seeing the Turning Point float tonight. I am not currently attending the church, but saw several people on the float giving glory to God with all of their heart. The scripture He inhabits the praises of his people echoed through my being and I was overjoyed at the wonderful sight of a few individuals standing before all people in our city to proclaim God's glory. Whew, it was absolutely incredible.
Someone told me that people might be posting about the float and I just wanted to make sure my approval was one of the first things written.

If the float is the only point of criticism or concern one has about TPc then perhaps this is not an appropriate thread. I would encourage posters on this site to post their stories of abuse, examples of errant and false teachings, stories that illustrate how TPc is a "destructive church". The issue of the float, though interesting, does not clearly illuminate the serious concerns people have regarding Mike and his authoritarian practices, his reliance on Tony C for authority, direction and affirmation; his inappropriate application of scriptures to the areas of money, discipleship, and pastor-parishioner relationships.
At best the comments about the float risk coming across as petty.

Dan, thank you for stopping by and voicing your approval of the TPc float in the Strawberry Festival Parade. I find the issue of the float to be a trivial issue. I hope you will address some of the more serious issues posted on this site and not limit your comments to the float.

Others have posted here about other items related to TPc. I hope you would care to voice your approval or disapproval of those items as well. Items such as "spiritual parenting", Mike's relationship with Tony C, Tony C's influence on the leadership and direction of TPc; the teaching and practical application of "honoring" as it is practiced by many at TPc; the teaching and practice of "covering", the demonstration of "healings" by pastor Mike; the teachings and practice of "prosperity" faith (the idea that God wants to give you wealth and blessing all you have to is ask); the false notion that other churches teach a "poverty" theology; the teaching and practice of "covenant relationships" as taught at TPc; the structure of the church leadership; the accountability structures in place at TPc; the inability of members to voice questions and concerns to the leadership.

All of these are of greater concern than the float and, as such, I would hope you would have some input and thoughts. Again, Welcome to the forum. Feel free to message if you feel uncomfortable posting to the public site. Dan and Em- I can only imagine how difficult the last several months for you and your family has been. I won't assume the reasons for your not attending TPc at this time. I only know that leaving a place where one has invested time, money, energy, passion, built relationships etc is never easy under any circumstances. You and your family are in our prayers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2009 12:38AM by TurningPointReject.

Darn it, I was hoping we could talk about the TPWOC float a couple more days! I missed the parade this year! But last year I was there and yelling my hallalelujahs of approval when the TP float went by. Goose bumps, chills up the spine and feeling of being in Gods presence was the exerience I had last year when the Tp float floated by my lawn chair! The Hollywood look of the float and the loud music might bring new victims to TPWOC to be indoctrinated and deceived into false doctrines by the false apostle Mike Villamor!

LOL Buddy... you all may discuss what ever you care to discuss :) I was just saying....

On a different subject:

Happy Father's Day to all of you dads out there. May God grant you humility, wisdom, and strength for the upcoming year of fatherhood!!!

TPR, I couldn't disagree more with your position, although, in the spirit of agreeing to disagree. While God does inhabit the praises of his people, he cannot inhabit their praises if he is not being praised. I think this is paramount to the TP cult. The float adeptly represented the worldly perspective of this church and the abandonment of Christ as the head of the church. Cyndi and Mike are the heads of the church and worthy to be praised according to the membership. Abuse doesn't just happen with a big event i.e. being told you need to shut up etc. Abuse typically happens after a long period of subtle grooming. Part of the grooming is presenting a world friendly music program, and I say music program because that is what it amounts to at TPC. All the same people are on worship that have been on worship for the past 3 or 4 years. I saw the addition of one person. A good looking young man, young I say to attract other young vulnerable people. This is the entry level abuse manipulation and watching it float by was disturbing to me. My mixed feelings were "wow how cool" and "wow, it's the entry plan for abuse. Look how it will attract young people." I don't think there is anything wrong with a silver smoke emitting float, but it is the purpose of the float. It wasn't to give glory to God as Dan Masten states. It is to give glory to man. God could care less if a float is traveling down the parade and quite frankly,I would think that God's praises are more inhabited in the puppets that draw no attraction to man.

The other thing that really bothers me is people who have left the church retain within their hearts a loyalty to TP. I understand that they love the people there, but the whole place is like a fly trying to free itself from a spider web. It leaves me feeling incongruent. I listen to people discuss and name their abusive experiences, but then write on a facebook page the rightness of Mike's prophecy in their life? It's bizarre. I suppose it is like having a family member abuse you, and then continuing to love them and blame yourself for the abuse. This religious abuse thing lays tendrils so deep into an individuals life that it leaves one confused at best. One last thing, who do former TP members love, the church or Christ? I was reading in the Bible yesterday that you would never have known via worldy examples, that Paul had a successful ministry. It makes me wonder about where I should attend church. Should I go somewhere completely dry and void of ministry, i.e. in direct opposition of TPC, or should it be somewhere that success in ministry is evident?

well said, to tell the truth.